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Ballmer: Insert foot into mouth and press any key...

Jeff7181

Jeff7181

Lifer
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Ballmer tries to explain why Windows 7 is a major release and not "Vista R2." You can see how obviously frustrated he is when he states that it's a major release because of all the work they've done but then isn't able to give more than a single example of what they've been working on that makes it more than a minor release of Vista.

Somehow I doubt Bill Gates would have been so clumsy... sure he may have dodged the question too, but he'd at least be able to provide some information as to why it's not "Vista R2."

I'd like to see the rest of that interview but I haven't found it yet.
 
I remember much the same criticisms leveled at XP when it released. It even registers as Windows 5.1 and lots of people complained incessantly about this fact alone. For a minor release it was pretty big.

developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers
 
If MS keeps up with the "Windows 7" PR, they are going to kill Vista corporate sales completely for the next year. Nobody wants to do another upgrade six months after they deploy Vista.
 
I think Ballmer is right on this one.

The guy in the video asked how Windows 7 could be a major release in such a short period of time. Ballmer, seemingly blown away by the stupidity of this question, says that a lot can be done over a period of 2.5 years, and he's right. Windows 95 and Windows 98 were about 2.5 years apart, and the difference was pretty big - Windows Driver Model, PnP, USB support, NAT, DVD support, and a few other things.

Also, Ballmer's explanation of Windows 7 perfectly describes the difference between XP and Vista. Same basic OS, nothing special about it, absolutely no reason to upgrade your current machine, UI is a bit different, better PnP (he mentioned multitouch support), and better system tools.

Those two hosts are just idiots. Not upgrade your OS because of the economy? What kind of stupid question is that? Even if the economy is really good, people don't arbitrarily upgrade their OS. Ballmer does a very polite "eat shit" by pointing out how most PC users get whatever OS is loaded on the computer at Best Buy. It doesn't matter what "people in the audience" think since they represent an extremely small percentage of the market.

 
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Ballmer tries to explain why Windows 7 is a major release and not "Vista R2."
Click to expand...
And it's obviously important, because MS is going to want money for the upgrade. Versus no money for an SP2.

I wonder how MS will price this? The last major "R2" version of consumer Windows was Windows 98SE and was about $80 for the Upgrade version. But how many people actually PAID for the upgrade from '98 to '98SE? Most of the upgrades were likely done with borrowed disks and shared Keys. Having to pay $100 for the upgrade is going to make it a tougher sell to consumers.

MS will still have to issue an SP2 for Vista, which, you'd think would include the bug fixes included in Windows 7. So I want to pay $100 to upgrade to Windows 7 because.....?
 
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Ballmer tries to explain why Windows 7 is a major release and not "Vista R2."
Click to expand...
And it's obviously important, because MS is going to want money for the upgrade. Versus no money for an SP2.

I wonder how MS will price this? The last major "R2" version of consumer Windows was Windows 98SE and was about $80 for the Upgrade version. But how many people actually PAID for the upgrade from '98 to '98SE? Most of the upgrades were likely done with borrowed disks and shared Keys. Having to pay $100 for the upgrade is going to make it a tougher sell to consumers.

MS will still have to issue an SP2 for Vista, which, you'd think would include the bug fixes included in Windows 7. So I want to pay $100 to upgrade to Windows 7 because.....?
Click to expand...

This is exactly where Ballmer failed in his answer to the question. Anyone who watches that and hasn't done any research on their own is going to think Windows 7 is nothing more than Vista R2 because he doesn't point out any differences or additions other than touch screen capabilities and a very vague improved interface, shell and performance.
 
I'm sure most of the people watching this type of media will also be interested in news from PDC08 as well. Ballmer knows this and knows he doesn't have to say shit during the interview. 😛 He's just out to make noise.

I wonder how MS will price this? *snip* Having to pay $100 for the upgrade is going to make it a tougher sell to consumers.
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My guess will be full pricing. Sure, it's an "upgrade" but that doesn't mean they don't have a lot of people doing a lot of hard work. It's difficult to gauge exactly Windows 7 is without specifics. Ballmer says "Vista but better" but everyone else is stressing the point that this is a major release. Sure, both could go hand-in-hand but for most people they obviously don't.

So I want to pay $100 to upgrade to Windows 7 because.....?
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It has more shinies? 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Rhonda the Sly
My guess will be full pricing.
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You mean ask folks who paid $200 to $400 for Vista Ultimate to buy a NEW OS for another $200 to $400, less than two years later? Nah. Won't happen. There will be a Full version, an Upgrade version, and a special (reduced price) Upgrade version for folks with Vista.
 
It's not like W7 is being released tomorrow, it's still off by at least 8 months by most estimates. Vista will have had a 2.5~3 year life as Microsoft's flagship operating system, which is fine. You don't have to buy it at launch, you can postpone your purchase or skip it entirely.

My guess is it will happen. Windows 7 still has potential to be a very large release.
 
There will be a Full version, an Upgrade version, and a special (reduced price) Upgrade version for folks with Vista.
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Full and upgrade, yes, but reduced price for Vista users? That's just the upgrade version and I don't have any reason to believe they'll undercut themselves.
 
Originally posted by: Rhonda the Sly
Full and upgrade, yes, but reduced price for Vista users? That's just the upgrade version and I don't have any reason to believe they'll undercut themselves.
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When Windows 98SE came out, there were three retail editions: Full Retail ($180), a standard $90 Upgrade version, and a "Special Win98-only Upgrade" version that sold for $50. By the time we got to XP and Vista, a Retail Upgrade versions ranged from $90 to over $200. If Microsoft prices "Windows 7" as a full version, then the full upgrades would presumably be in that price range.

When Windows 7 is released, the vast majority of computers running Vista will have had Vista installed for less than two years. There's no way that Microsoft can as those brave souls who paid over $200 to $400 for their Vista Ultimate OSes to buy another upgrade for another $200+. There will have to be a specially-priced upgrade for Vista owners. It will either be a single version intended for all versions of Vista (but would have to be priced at $50 or so to make sense for Vista Home Basic/Premium owners), or it will be a $100 version that will only makes financial sense to those running Vista Business or Vista Ultimate.

That's my guess. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my original Windows 2.0 Retail box. 😛
 
True enough, and I agree a Vista upgrade path would help adoption of both Windows 6 (numbers!) and 7, but the major differentiation between the two scenarios is that Windows 98SE was a minor release and Windows 7 is still a big question mark. I could turn out to be large enough of an overhaul for people to justify the purchase of a new OS. If it is Microsoft giving a Vista upgrade package would just be them doing something nice, which isn't likely to happen. If it isn't then it might be in their (and our) interest they do the upgrade package.

As ShawnD1 pointed out...
Ballmer does a very polite "eat shit" by pointing out how most PC users get whatever OS is loaded on the computer at Best Buy.
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...the "vast majority" of Windows users are just using whatever is on the desktop. Businesses are on cycles I know nothing about and enthusiasts will pay the price if they see fit.

If I'm wrong I'll buy a pie or two with the money I saved. 😛
 
Ballmer is CEO of Microsoft, not chief software developer or architect. You are right that Gates would have had a better handle on that question, which actually was one of the problems leading Gates to step down (trying to be CEO and oversee various technical aspects of development). Ballmer does not artfully handle being in that kind of situation, though. That guy drinks too many double espressos or something. Too easily miffed.
 
If you were going to an interview, wouldn't you at least what some marketing prep so you had some examples of why you should buy this?
 
Originally posted by: JasonCoder
I remember much the same criticisms leveled at XP when it released. It even registers as Windows 5.1 and lots of people complained incessantly about this fact alone. For a minor release it was pretty big.

developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers
Click to expand...

XP sold well and was/is pretty solid, but it really is just 2000 with some extra doodads.

Those complaints weren't without merit, but if you didn't already have 2000 you may as well have gotten XP.
 
Originally posted by: hclarkjr
windows 7 going to have the new file system winfs i think it was called?
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That would be something to get excited about....but I'll believe it when I see it! How long have they been promising that beast?
 
The vast majority of OS sales are in the OEM market. People dont upgrade there and they buy what comes with the computer. You thikn anybody is going to pay 200 bucks for a Windows 7 upgrade disc when a new computer with Windows 7 can be had for 300?

 
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