Baghdad Residents Protest U.S. Troops

burek

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Feb 19, 2002
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Baghdad Residents Protest U.S. Troops

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Thousands of Iraqis demonstrated against the U.S. occupation of Iraq on Friday, the second Muslim day of prayer since the regime's collapse.


In the center of the city, the Ministry of Information was in flames, apparently ignited by looters. Soldiers surrounded the 10-story building as looters tried to carry away a few last prizes. A recording played over Army loudspeakers, warning people in Arabic to leave the area "immediately or there will be consequences."


At morning prayers, Sheik Ahmed al-Kubeisy rejected the troops' "occupation" and said American soldiers should leave the country soon, before Iraqis expel them, Arab news channel Al-Jazeera reported.


His calls for U.S. forces to leave Iraq drew cheers and chants of "Allah Akbar" (God is great) from worshippers gathered in the Abu Haneefa al-Nu'man Mosque in the Azameyah neighborhood in Baghdad.


Tens of thousands of Iraqis protested the U.S. military presence after the prayers, and called for solidarity between Iraq's Sunni and Shiite Muslims.

Elsewhere, a contingent of five Marines was guarding a looted laboratory near the Ministry of Health for a third day Friday; they said they've been told anyone who enters could catch diseases because of broken bottles. A sign in Arabic warned, "Danger, Danger ? Keep Out. The ground is infected with HIV, cholera, polio and other diseases."


"We've been told not to go in," said Pfc. Ryan Welch, 22, of Dallas. "We're here to make sure it's secured and to make sure that nobody else goes in, either."


Also Friday, opposition leader Ahmad Chalabi and his Iraqi National Congress followers set up makeshift headquarters at two neighboring social clubs in the affluent Mansour district, guarded by U.S. armored vehicles and elements of the new Free Iraqi forces. Ousted President Saddam Hussein's sons, Oday and Qusai, once belonged to the clubs.


The lack of basic services such as power, water and police protection has hobbled the city's economy and fueled a mixture of rage and resentment against American forces. Iraqis are angry that U.S. troops rarely assume the role of police and resentful when they do.


Bandits have ransacked libraries, museums, government buildings hospitals and schools. When thieves blasted into a branch of the al-Rashid Bank on Thursday, outraged residents ? including many who held accounts there ? surrounded them, demanding they hand over the money. U.S. soldiers intervened, firing shots into the air, and a dozen robbers were detained.


Restoring power, the U.S. military has said, is the No. 1 priority for Baghdad. But some residents, weary of guarding their homes and businesses round-the-clock, say they crave law and order even more. Ultimately, electricity and security may be the same thing; water is involved too. Purification plants need power to operate.


"Without power, there is no peace," said Haifa Aziz, manager of a power substation. "For hospitals, for schools, for the people, they need electricity."


Iraqi engineers say they hope to restart the city's biggest power plant by Saturday, which in turn would kick-start the country's largest power plant to the south. If that works, plant workers said Thursday, electricity could be restored to most of the country within 10 days.


Why the lights went out in Baghdad on April 3 is not clear. U.S. Central Command has said it did not target power stations.


Janan Behnam, chief engineer of Baghdad's key power plant, says the problem was breaks in the lines that supply fuel to the plant. Gunshots, not U.S. bombs, shattered the lines ? "a mistake," Behnam said without elaborating. U.S. Army officers confirmed line breaks were the key problem reported to them.


Without the fuel, the plant can produce only one of the seven to nine megawatts needed to power up and get electricity surging. Behnam and his team have worked frantically to overcome problems at the plant, which is held secure by soldiers of the Army's 101st Airborne Division.
 

Mrburns2007

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Jun 14, 2001
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Maybe they could wait 5 minutes for us to set a temporary government and then we can leave and they can go back to there self destructive ways.
 

yowolabi

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Jun 29, 2001
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Tens of thousands of Iraqis protested the U.S. military presence after the prayers, and called for solidarity between Iraq's Sunni and Shiite Muslims.

The protests seem to be picking up steam. The good news is that they won't have a civil war as long as they're united against us.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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Does anyone think that there are still many Baathists who are forcing these people to protest?
 

Corn

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Nov 12, 1999
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Does anyone think that there are still many Baathists who are forcing these people to protest?

Doubt it. Most likely these protests are/will be fueled by religious leaders who are chomping at the bit for theocratic rule over Iraq.

Also, it is natural for people to overcompensate for years of repression, especially now that they know they won't be jailed and executed for their voices of dissention.

As the people start to heal, and understand how freely they can live and how fairly they are treated, these protests will begin to ebb. It will be important, though, a constitution to be in place and the framework for their government to be set up as quickly as possible in order to obtain self-rule through popular elections.

The Iraqi people protesting is a good thing, really.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: Corn
Does anyone think that there are still many Baathists who are forcing these people to protest?

Doubt it. Most likely these protests are/will be fueled by religious leaders who are chomping at the bit for theocratic rule over Iraq.

Also, it is natural for people to overcompensate for years of repression, especially now that they know they won't be jailed and executed for their voices of dissention.
So true, but you have to believe that that many of these protests and 'uprisings' are being incited deliberately by a handful of opportunistic insurgents and seditionists who either:

1. have sympathies with the Baath Party/Hussein

2. have paranoid delusions that the US is going to appoint Israel to rule over Iraq and enslave all Arabs

3. fearful that US (western) involvement will jeopardize the chance of their own favored dictatorship seizing control

The Communists are masters at this kind of thing; exploiting times of public panic and civil unrest by pouring salt onto every conceivable frustration and grievance harbored by people, whipping them up into a rage, then 'directing' that rage onto their political enemies or their proxy.

There are Michael Moore's in every country. Imagine the Arab equivalent of Michael Moore being in Baghdad. Now imagine 10 of them.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
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There are Michael Moore's in every country. Imagine the Arab equivalent of Michael Moore being in Baghdad. Now imagine 10 of them.

I can't imagine anything more frightening.........
 

BarneyFife

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Aug 12, 2001
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I think the Iraqi people should chase the US troops out of Iraq. We have no business being there and governing another country. I don't care how mean or nice Saddam is.
 

Corn

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Nov 12, 1999
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I think the Iraqi people should chase the US troops out of Iraq. We have no business being there and governing another country. I don't care how mean or nice Saddam is.

Of course you do Barney, because in the minds of the young and inexperienced, anarchy is a good thing.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

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Dec 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: Corn
I think the Iraqi people should chase the US troops out of Iraq. We have no business being there and governing another country. I don't care how mean or nice Saddam is.

Of course you do Barney, because in the minds of the young and inexperienced, anarchy is a good thing.

I am against the war, but we started it, now we must finish it. It is our duty to stick around and give the Iraqi's what we promised them, a better life. Since the spin doctors in Washington spun this war from one on finding (still unfound) WMD's to "Operation Iraqi Freedom" or whatever, the least we can do is create some level of stability and order while we exploit their vast oil reserves and protect our buddy Sharon.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Why should we give Iraqis a better life while we:
1. Cannot even provide prescription drugs for our own citizens
2. Cannot afford our own government without borrowing money
3. Cannot secure our own borders
4. Have mounting unemployment
?
When you are unemployed, living off your credit card, cannot afford medicine or secure shelter, do you go down the street and help someone else get a better life, or do you get your own house in order first?
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.



 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: SuperTool
Why should we give Iraqis a better life while we:
1. Cannot even provide prescription drugs for our own citizens
2. Cannot afford our own government without borrowing money
3. Cannot secure our own borders
4. Have mounting unemployment
?
When you are unemployed, living off your credit card, cannot afford medicine or secure shelter, do you go down the street and help someone else get a better life, or do you get your own house in order first?

Yeah, but the Iraqi's have oil and pro-Israel lobby groups are among the most powerful in the US and bankroll many polititians election campaigns.
 

iamWolverine

Senior member
May 20, 2001
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Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

The hypocrisy of some of these pro-war contributors . . . we went in to give the iraqi people freedom and democracy, now that they are speaking out, since oh my, they want their freedom and democracy for themselves and not installed by the US government, i.e. a criminal "Iraqi" named Chalabi, we should ignore them . . . that's liberation and freedom eh? The Iraqi people are not ignorant or uneducated . . . but pro-war commentators would tell you otherwise, especially since they are so expertly familiar with the Iraqi population and history.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

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Dec 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: iamWolverine
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

The hypocrisy of some of these pro-war contributors . . . we went in to give the iraqi people freedom and democracy, now that they are speaking out, since oh my, they want their freedom and democracy for themselves and not installed by the US government, i.e. a criminal "Iraqi" named Chalabi, we should ignore them . . . that's liberation and freedom eh? The Iraqi people are not ignorant or uneducated . . . but pro-war commentators would tell you otherwise, especially since they are so expertly familiar with the Iraqi population and history.

It's all about the arm chair patriots man, whatever they hear on FOX News is reality and if Bush reads one of his aides speaches without mispronouncing any words, all the better. If he told them that we had evidence that moonmen were plotting to come to the US and steal the great state of Montana, they would be convinced and would readily support nukeing the moon as a pre-emptive measure.

 

bulldawg

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

If they are so freaking worried about their government, why wait until now to protest? Why were they so quiet about this feeling 6 weeks ago?
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: bulldawg
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

If they are so freaking worried about their government, why wait until now to protest? Why were they so quiet about this feeling 6 weeks ago?

Because Saddam would have killed them. "Exactly" you say "And we liberated them so now they can protest", "Exactly" I reply, "That is why they are protesting". They don't want Saddam or us.
 

bulldawg

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,215
1
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Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: bulldawg
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

If they are so freaking worried about their government, why wait until now to protest? Why were they so quiet about this feeling 6 weeks ago?

Because Saddam would have killed them. "Exactly" you say "And we liberated them so now they can protest", "Exactly" I reply, "That is why they are protesting". They don't want Saddam or us.

On this we agree :) But do they think we should just pick up and leave by tomorrow pm? That's what I am frustrated with.
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
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The Communists are masters at this kind of thing; exploiting times of public panic and civil unrest by pouring salt onto every conceivable frustration and grievance harbored by people, whipping them up into a rage, then 'directing' that rage onto their political enemies or their proxy.

That doesn't sound anything like Michael Moore. But it does sound alot like GWB and his administration. I'll admit that they haven't rubbed much salt into our frustrations and grievances, but they are pros at whipping the US populus into a rage fueled by fear and ignorance.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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Originally posted by: iamWolverine
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

The hypocrisy of some of these pro-war contributors . . . we went in to give the iraqi people freedom and democracy, now that they are speaking out, since oh my, they want their freedom and democracy for themselves and not installed by the US government, i.e. a criminal "Iraqi" named Chalabi, we should ignore them . . . that's liberation and freedom eh? The Iraqi people are not ignorant or uneducated . . . but pro-war commentators would tell you otherwise, especially since they are so expertly familiar with the Iraqi population and history.


They are actually some of the better educated people in the ME. They are simply stating their desire for self rule, which is nothing different than ANYTHING that has been suggested and is right now being implemented. They have already basically removed any power Chalabi will have and have greatly increased the timeline for an Iraqi interm govt. and the creation of a national constitution that will be voted on by general referendum very soon. We do have a responsibility to turn over a viable govt though, one based on their wishes but also functioning. If we left today, who would deliver the mail, who would collect the garbage, who would man the power plants, who would pay them? With what? Who will do the accounting? I could go on and on, I hope we don't let them push us too fast, the most important thing is getting it done right.
 

yowolabi

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
4,183
2
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Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: iamWolverine
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

The hypocrisy of some of these pro-war contributors . . . we went in to give the iraqi people freedom and democracy, now that they are speaking out, since oh my, they want their freedom and democracy for themselves and not installed by the US government, i.e. a criminal "Iraqi" named Chalabi, we should ignore them . . . that's liberation and freedom eh? The Iraqi people are not ignorant or uneducated . . . but pro-war commentators would tell you otherwise, especially since they are so expertly familiar with the Iraqi population and history.


They are actually some of the better educated people in the ME. They are simply stating their desire for self rule, which is nothing different than ANYTHING that has been suggested and is right now being implemented. They have already basically removed any power Chalabi will have and have greatly increased the timeline for an Iraqi interm govt. and the creation of a national constitution that will be voted on by general referendum very soon. We do have a responsibility to turn over a viable govt though, one based on their wishes but also functioning. If we left today, who would deliver the mail, who would collect the garbage, who would man the power plants, who would pay them? With what? Who will do the accounting? I could go on and on, I hope we don't let them push us too fast, the most important thing is getting it done right.

I would agree with all of that, except I don't see why Chalabi has to ever have any power at all. If the people don't want him, let them hae someone else instead, and the US can work with that person to set up the civic services. Insisting on Chalabi's involvement against the popular wishes does more harm than good.
 

LilBlinbBlahIce

Golden Member
Dec 31, 2001
1,837
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Originally posted by: bulldawg
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: bulldawg
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Spyro
Bah, they'll get over it eventually.

Sure just dismiss the protestors and continue doing whatever we want.

There's certainly no reason to listen to what any Iraqis want for Iraq.

If they are so freaking worried about their government, why wait until now to protest? Why were they so quiet about this feeling 6 weeks ago?

Because Saddam would have killed them. "Exactly" you say "And we liberated them so now they can protest", "Exactly" I reply, "That is why they are protesting". They don't want Saddam or us.

On this we agree :) But do they think we should just pick up and leave by tomorrow pm? That's what I am frustrated with.

Absolutely not. We cannot. I've said this before, we've started this and it is up to us to end it right. If we screw this up, the hatred towards the US now is a slumber party compared to what we'll have in store. And, if we truely are the moral authority of the world, we have a duty to give the Iraqi's the better life we promised them. Will we do it? Can we do it? I don't know, what we did in Afghanistan is not very promising.