Bad to do back-to-back burns on consumer DVD writers?

[VirtualLarry]

Just wondering. I burned around 5 DVDs in a row, right after one another, at 16X, and they verified at 16X. The last one came out pretty hot.

Then I started thinking about duty cycles, and "duplication grade" writers, and I started wondering if they have fans in them, and if I should pause to let my drive cool down between burns.

Edit: My 6X SCSI Yamaha CD-RW drive had a fan in it.

 

[ArisVer]

Hint...
I burned about 20 DVDs some time ago. I was not in a hurry and the burning speed was set at the lowest.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I still have DVD-RW drive and for my PC I did mount a 120mm fan underneath it to keep it cool while I was burning discs. I did it because the burn quality does decrease with temperature. I don't really use it anymore, maybe couple of times a year to make a disc copy or to burn OS ISO. If you have space under your drive you can do same thing I did - horizontally mount 120mm fan in an empty bay under your drive.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Just wondering. I burned around 5 DVDs in a row, right after one another, at 16X, and they verified at 16X. The last one came out pretty hot.

Small wonder. 16x DVD equals something like 10.000RPM. Something spinning that fast is bound to generate some heat... x5... 😀

Then I started thinking about duty cycles, and "duplication grade" writers, and I started wondering if they have fans in them, and if I should pause to let my drive cool down between burns.

Edit: My 6X SCSI Yamaha CD-RW drive had a fan in it.

Tip; If you want the best possible burning quality, make sure you burn at a speed setting where your drive uses CLV. Generally, its the 4x setting, but a few burners can do 6x CLV. That insures the disc gets an equal amount of exposure to the laser across the entire disc, enhancing burn quality.

 

[smitbret]

Back in the mid 2000s I had 3 DVD burners stacked into a case and I would burn to all 3 simultaneously for about 2-3 hours a day. I had to replace one about every 6-8 months. At $25/each I figured they were kind of disposable. I never had any data problems with the discs, but I only used good burners (Pioneer) and good media (Taiyo Yuden & Verbatim).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I never had any data problems with the discs, but I only used good burners (Pioneer) and good media (Taiyo Yuden & Verbatim).

Always use high quality media for non-disposable burning. The price difference is too minimal to even mention.

Its well worth it for important stuff. I've even got a few Kodak CD-Rs burned in the late 90's, that are still perfectly readable today...

 

[hhhd1]

I used to experience low quality and up to failure when the dvd drive got hot, so when doing back to back, the 2nd or 3rd become corrupt, mostly only if ambient temperature is hot, using a fan directed at the dvd drive fixed this issue.

 

[jkauff]

Tip; If you want the best possible burning quality, make sure you burn at a speed setting where your drive uses CLV. Generally, its the 4x setting, but a few burners can do 6x CLV. That insures the disc gets an equal amount of exposure to the laser across the entire disc, enhancing burn quality.

This hasn't been good advice for several years now. Today, blank discs are optimized for higher speed burning. Burns should be done within the speed range recommended for your blank media, no slower.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

This hasn't been good advice for several years now. Today, blank discs are optimized for higher speed burning. Burns should be done within the speed range recommended for your blank media, no slower.

When I burn its usually at 6x CLV (yes, I'm a lucky owner of a drive that can do that), and the quality is higher then the same media (16x rated) burned at 16x.

So I don't know were you got that from.

 

[PliotronX]

When I burn its usually at 6x CLV (yes, I'm a lucky owner of a drive that can do that), and the quality is higher then the same media (16x rated) burned at 16x.

So I don't know were you got that from.

Yes, this is as true as ever! Now that the vast majority of media is made by CMC rebadged by just about every single GD manufacturer aside from JVC, quality at 6X and even 8X is starkly better than full speed. I have done the tests, cheap media needs to be burned slower than high quality media. The axiom lives on.

 

[B-Riz]

Just wondering. I burned around 5 DVDs in a row, right after one another, at 16X, and they verified at 16X. The last one came out pretty hot.

Then I started thinking about duty cycles, and "duplication grade" writers, and I started wondering if they have fans in them, and if I should pause to let my drive cool down between burns.

Edit: My 6X SCSI Yamaha CD-RW drive had a fan in it.

I too have a 6X SCSI Yamaha CD-RW, might dig it out and see if the SCSI controller card still works.

SCSI was / is great for burning, until IDE burners matured.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

SCSI was / is great for burning, until IDE burners matured.

All IDE burners still use the SCSI command set though ATAPI... 😀

 

[jkauff]

When I burn its usually at 6x CLV (yes, I'm a lucky owner of a drive that can do that), and the quality is higher then the same media (16x rated) burned at 16x.

So I don't know were you got that from.

The recommendation came from Taiyo Yuden via Supermediastore. I only use TY media, so I can't speak for other brands.

My spare drive is an old Plextor that can write at 1x. Results sound great when I use my ancient Kodak gold discs (8x rated), but not so good with modern media. I get a better burn with my Pioneer at higher speeds on modern TY media.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The recommendation came from Taiyo Yuden via Supermediastore. I only use TY media, so I can't speak for other brands.

My spare drive is an old Plextor that can write at 1x. Results sound great when I use my ancient Kodak gold discs (8x rated), but not so good with modern media. I get a better burn with my Pioneer at higher speeds on modern TY media.

Interesting. But are you sure it doesn't apply exclusively to CD-Rs? I must admit I haven't burned too many CDs in a rather long time. Today its mostly blu-ray backups with the occasional DVD thrown in. Blu-ray are fundamentally different however.

At the moment I'm using a rather large stock of Verbatim (the good kind) DVD+Rs, and those do a lot better with CLV compared to CAV. As in far less PIE/PIF errors.

BTW, I agree completely on Taiyo-Yuden media and the Kodak gold discs. Those were the days... 🙂

 

[jkauff]

Interesting. But are you sure it doesn't apply exclusively to CD-Rs? I must admit I haven't burned too many CDs in a rather long time. Today its mostly blu-ray backups with the occasional DVD thrown in. Blu-ray are fundamentally different however.

At the moment I'm using a rather large stock of Verbatim (the good kind) DVD+Rs, and those do a lot better with CLV compared to CAV. As in far less PIE/PIF errors.

BTW, I agree completely on Taiyo-Yuden media and the Kodak gold discs. Those were the days... 🙂

Yes, I was referring to CD-Rs. Of course, I don't burn much of anything these days since I bought a new car with a USB port. Most of my burning was car-copy CDs that I made from my original discs. Never trusted the old multi-disc car player with original discs. I used the Kodaks to make back-ups of commercial gold CDs. Still have about a half-spindle worth.

 

[PliotronX]

Ah, CD-Rs are different. I still tend to burn them at 16-24X because my burners will use CLV or Z-CLV. My burners cannot see error rates with CD-R (very few have good C2 detection) but transfer rates are perfect at these speeds and play in all of my devices. With DVDs I can see PIE/PIF rates and have never, in all my burning dating back to the NEC ND3500AG, ever surpassed slower speeds in producing lower error rates at high speed.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Yes, I was referring to CD-Rs. Of course, I don't burn much of anything these days since I bought a new car with a USB port. Most of my burning was car-copy CDs that I made from my original discs. Never trusted the old multi-disc car player with original discs. I used the Kodaks to make back-ups of commercial gold CDs. Still have about a half-spindle worth.

I see. Multi-disc loaders and slot-loaders are very hard on discs. I did that myself actually.

Ah, CD-Rs are different. I still tend to burn them at 16-24X because my burners will use CLV or Z-CLV. My burners cannot see error rates with CD-R (very few have good C2 detection) but transfer rates are perfect at these speeds and play in all of my devices. With DVDs I can see PIE/PIF rates and have never, in all my burning dating back to the NEC ND3500AG, ever surpassed slower speeds in producing lower error rates at high speed.

6x CLV isn't exactly slow. Its still 8.1MB/s continuously which is quite respectable for an optical disc. It only takes ~9 minutes to write a full DVD+R.

 

[Diogenes2]

The recommendation came from Taiyo Yuden via Supermediastore. I only use TY media, so I can't speak for other brands.

My spare drive is an old Plextor that can write at 1x. Results sound great when I use my ancient Kodak gold discs (8x rated), but not so good with modern media. I get a better burn with my Pioneer at higher speeds on modern TY media.

Can you explain how digitally encoded audio from the same source can sound different based on the storage media?

 

[master_shake_]

Can you explain how digitally encoded audio from the same source can sound different based on the storage media?

it's not.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Can you explain how digitally encoded audio from the same source can sound different based on the storage media?

This has absolutely nothing to do with sound quality. It has to do with the quality of the burned media in itself. Like how many, and how serious, errors are made during the burn process and the general "readability" of the resulting disc. A perfect burn will have zero errors, unfortunately achieving this is quite simply impossible. No, this doesn't mean "zero errors" as in zero errors, but that the disc drives error correction will never have to do anything. You can have a perfectly readable disc with -a lot- of PIE/PIF errors, its transparent, though too many errors reduce read speed by quite a lot. Of course the error correction will be overwhelmed at some point and you have at least a partially unreadable disc, that requires specialized software to get data off. Particularly if the damage is in the file table...

Coincidently audio CDs have about zero error correction built-in. DVDs and in particular blu-rays have far, far more robust error correction. They simply have to, because of the much higher information density.

 

[jkauff]

Coincidently audio CDs have about zero error correction built-in. DVDs and in particular blu-rays have far, far more robust error correction. They simply have to, because of the much higher information density.

Well, it's more than zero. Let's just say that the Red Book standard (for audio CDs) has way less error correction specified than the Yellow Book standard (for CD-ROMs). A few missing bytes on an audio CD will probably be inaudible because it's in a continuous bitstream, and the player will apply enough error correction to fool the ear. Any bad bytes on a CD-ROM, however, are unacceptable because it's a data disc with random access. DVDs and Blu-rays are also data discs and so have very strong error correction as part of the standards.

 

[meloz]

I was not in a hurry and the burning speed was set at the lowest.

AFAIK DVDs should not be burnt at slowest possible speed (that was optimal for CDs), but rather at their rated speed or highest rated speed. This has something to do with chemistry and how long the chemicals on the disc surface should be exposed to the laser for optimal burning. Forcing burn at slower speeds actually results in worse long term reliability. I cannot recall where I read this, or whether it has any merit but sounds reasonable to me. Have never had any problem with burning DVDs at their highest possible rated speed, always very reliable backups.

Anyway, I have always allowed my DVD burner to cool for 2-3 minutes between burns. I leave the loading bay open to allow better ventilation. I do not know if it does any good, but it makes me feel better. Sometimes the burner gets very hot. You can sense the heat when you put your fingers near the slot.

 

[Burpo]

As some one who does burn a lot of Optical discs, I can tell you that it's normal for discs to come out of the burner warm after a few back to back burns. I recently had to do 50 between 2 burners and those last discs were WARM! I burn at max speed always. Every now & then I forget I'm burning & try to do too many other things, and will experience a buffer under run w/Xeon quad core. The overclocked Xeon Hexcore has never given me that problem and burns Blu-rays about 40% faster. Burners; LG BH12LS38 has 1000+ burns w/1 firmware update & WH14NS40 has 400+, no updates yet..

 

[Z15CAM]

Since my MB can Boot USB DOS, I haven't used and DVD for BackUp Images nor used my Optic unless someone wants me to play a Disk.

I'm at the point where I don't burn DVD Optic Media - It's a waste of time.

Heaven forbid I got boxes and boxes of MP4 Flics burnt to CD and DVD Optic Disc's and outdated backups dated back to Win95 - Never did get into the DVD Media Craze - LOL

Kinda missed that whole DVD Era when I found mpg432.dll on the Win98 Gold Installation CD.

Then MS MPEG-4 VKI DS Filter Pkg then DivX 3.1 and the Franhoffer LC3 Pro and Lame Codecs and the rest is history right up to the present H(X)264 AVC/ACC.mp4 -FLV- MKV Flic's.

So much for mPeg2/AC3.mpg DVD Disc's which where nothing but a marketing money trap - Glad I missed it - Not that I could not Copy and burn DVD Movies ;o)

Really we're getting into 4k 2560p res fic's and Blue Ray is dead - Kinda missed Blue Ray as well. I still have a soft spot for old mp4/mp3.avi and mp4/ogg.ogm flic's - LOL.

Suggest you just forget Optic drives and use USB Sticks for Media and play them through a PC loaded with the appropriate Codec's.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Well, it's more than zero. Let's just say that the Red Book standard (for audio CDs) has way less error correction specified than the Yellow Book standard (for CD-ROMs). A few missing bytes on an audio CD will probably be inaudible because it's in a continuous bitstream, and the player will apply enough error correction to fool the ear. Any bad bytes on a CD-ROM, however, are unacceptable because it's a data disc with random access. DVDs and Blu-rays are also data discs and so have very strong error correction as part of the standards.

Far as I remember, audio CDs only use a simple CIRC for ECC, in addition to EFM. CD-ROM mode 1 adds a 32bit CRC to the mix. CD-ROM mode 2 doesn't have that.

Suggest you just forget Optic drives and use USB Sticks for Media and play them through a PC loaded with the appropriate Codec's.

Considering most USB sticks, SD-cards and the like, use bottom-of-the-barrel NAND with somewhat dubious controllers, that is very bad advice for serious achieving... 😱