Bad piping + history of breaks + 140psi in your house = bad. (UPDATE wit pics!)

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
Yes this is a long brool story co, so if you don't like my blog.anandtech.com stories turn away now. Anyway I'll update this as things progress. Cause... I have nothing better to do :(

The complex we live in here has had a long history of water problems. It seems like whoever did the inter unit piping did a REALLY shitty job. 4 or 5 times in the past 15-20 years there has been a major break at some point underground in the piping. Last time this happened I heard what sounded like a waterfall "hmm that's strange why would I be hearing a waterfall?" I went outside and there was a literal waterfall cascading over the side of a concrete wall next to our garages. When they dug down to the pipe it looked like there was never any proper connection holding the two pipes in question together. There was just a large bolder sitting on top of the two pipes keeping them together. W.T.F!?

Before that there were 2 or 3 other similar incidents a few years before we moved in. Only these were underneath the concrete driveway so they had to break the concrete and dig down to the leak. Since the last incident 10 years back we had a pressure reduction valve installed right where we get the water from the city and this reduced the pressure below what is average for our houses (maybe 40psi or something), apparently this worked as we haven't had any issues in the past 10 years.

Anyway a few days back we noticed that water was coming out of drainage pipes near our concrete garage, these pipes drain the lawn above the garage, (the garages are sunk down lower than the lawns and there is a concrete retaining wall with drainage pipes in it. Well it hasn't rained the past week or so so there is no reason for water to be coming out of these pipes. About 2 days ago it got worse and we shut off all the water to the complex. We have a plumbing company coming in with a geophone to look for the new leak.

Since then though we have jury rigged a system of hoses to get water from our neighbours. We've run lengths of pipe between our outside taps. Only problem? Apparently our neighbours tap from which we are getting this water from is at city pressure. 140psi!! He has a pressure reduction valve on the other side before it goes into his own house but not on the tap side we are using. Now remember about 10 years back we had a pressure reduction valve installed in our own city link so we have had lower than normal pressure for the past 10 years. First thing I think when they get all this hooked up. Wow we have some nice pressure now :) Didn't know 140psi was way more than it should be lol. So yesterday we noticed that there was water leaking in the kitchen and lo and behold a pipe and the dishwasher has sprung a leak. Then we noticed that the hot water heater had overflowed a bit. We had a separate plumber come in to fix these small leaks and he said, yeah 140psi in your house is almost dangerous.

We have since got a small plastic pressure reduction valve which we installed at the neighbours tap to lower the pressure, now it's only like 20-30psi, which is not fun either :(

Update 1 Ok the plumber is here and we opened the valve to the city water again to expose the leak. Below you can see the water coming out of the drainage pipes near our garage. Remember this water is coming from a burst pipe, it hasn't rained in a week so there is no reason for water to be coming out of there. The guy is listening with that stethoscope thing for running water behind the wall. Looks like we might have to jack hammer through the wall :(

Update 2 Well the solution is going to be to replumb this whole section. Everything from under the concrete back up to near the city connection. Looks like it will cost about 4 to $6000. However we are although thinking of redoing ALL the interunit plumbing through the whole complex. That would cost around $30,000 or more and would be done through a special assessment. Would probably cost each of us $6000 or so. Father doesn't like that too much, he never saves up for anything and basically has 0 life savings at 64 lol. Yeah I need to move out don't I.

Will update with pics of the dig up, whether you want me to or not :D

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MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
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There's something seriously wrong if city water pressure is 140 psi. There's going to be damage all over town. I would definitely call the water company to find out what's going on. It's not only dangerous to consumers but, infrastructure as well.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
There's something seriously wrong if city water pressure is 140 psi. There's going to be damage all over town. I would definitely call the water company to find out what's going on. It's not only dangerous to consumers but, infrastructure as well.

A quick google seems to say that is varies a lot from place to place. We have a pressure meter that one of the previous plumbing companies left on the pipes coming into our house. Before we installed the small plastic pressure reduction valve in the jury rigged system the meter was reading between 120 and 140 psi. I think that's normal around here? But all the houses have reduction valves on the water coming into the home so that's not what is running in the pipes of most of the houses. The exception was this tap that we were drawing from, it was at full city psi.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
A quick google seems to say that is varies a lot from place to place. We have a pressure meter that one of the previous plumbing companies left on the pipes coming into our house. Before we installed the small plastic pressure reduction valve in the jury rigged system the meter was reading between 120 and 140 psi. I think that's normal around here? But all the houses have reduction valves on the water coming into the home so that's not what is running in the pipes of most of the houses. The exception was this tap that we were drawing from, it was at full city psi.

Your town has got to have blown water mains and leaks all over. Not to mention, sink holes, pot holes and, expensive water.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
So they pressurize the water at a plant?

Well I believe much of the lower parts of the city are gravity fed from the reservoir. However we here are at about the same level as the reservoir and many parts here are higher so I assume they pump the water or pressurize it at the plant as you suggest. I don't really know for sure though.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
I would go bat shit insane, if I didn't rip every wall open and redo every single fucking pipe. The thought of living in such a house, where leaks show up ever now and then, would send me into a murderous rage.

I worked on many contruction sites from 13 to 18 (helping out dad). And, I learned quite a bit about plumbing - it's not that hard.

I HATE opening a sink vanity and seeing pipes that are not set up properly.

Leaking ceilings (from the floor above) drive me nuts as well - be it steam unit, sink, tub or whatever.

There is NO excuse for shitty plumbing.
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,886
0
76
When I build my house I'm gonna use 600CS pipe for my water service and a booster pump. 200psi showers baby!
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
I would go bat shit insane, if I didn't rip every wall open and redo every single fucking pipe. The thought of living in such a house, where leaks show up ever now and then, would send me into a murderous rage.

I worked on many contruction sites from 13 to 18 (helping out dad). And, I learned quite a bit about plumbing - it's not that hard.

I HATE opening a sink vanity and seeing pipes that are not set up properly.

Leaking ceilings (from the floor above) drive me nuts as well - be it steam unit, sink, tub or whatever.

There is NO excuse for shitty plumbing.

This is mostly not in the houses but in the ground between them. I'm talking about the pipping that connects the units together.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,805
13,884
126
www.anyf.ca
I would go bat shit insane, if I didn't rip every wall open and redo every single fucking pipe. The thought of living in such a house, where leaks show up ever now and then, would send me into a murderous rage.

I worked on many contruction sites from 13 to 18 (helping out dad). And, I learned quite a bit about plumbing - it's not that hard.

I HATE opening a sink vanity and seeing pipes that are not set up properly.

Leaking ceilings (from the floor above) drive me nuts as well - be it steam unit, sink, tub or whatever.

There is NO excuse for shitty plumbing.

With pex systems is so much easier than before too. A child could do it, well, you do need to be strong to use that crimper, but other than that it's child's play. Most pex can handle like 200psi too.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
With pex systems is so much easier than before too. A child could do it, well, you do need to be strong to use that crimper, but other than that it's child's play. Most pex can handle like 200psi too.

Our complex is about 25 years old. But from what little I know of the plumbing they did connecting the units together it looks it WAS done by a child :(
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
With pex systems is so much easier than before too. A child could do it, well, you do need to be strong to use that crimper, but other than that it's child's play. Most pex can handle like 200psi too.


PEX is banned in many areas and for good reason. If not properly installed it fails easily.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
Well the solution is going to be to replumb this whole section. Everything from under the concrete back up to near the city connection. Looks like it will cost about 4 to $6000. This will come out of the complex contingency fund. However we are also thinking of redoing ALL the interunit plumbing through the whole complex. That would cost around $30,000 or more and would be done through a special assessment. Would probably cost each of us $6000 or so. Father doesn't like that too much, he never saves up for anything and basically has 0 life savings at 64 lol. Yeah I need to move out don't I. :p
 
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Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Well I believe much of the lower parts of the city are gravity fed from the reservoir. However we here are at about the same level as the reservoir and many parts here are higher so I assume they pump the water or pressurize it at the plant as you suggest. I don't really know for sure though.


All cities use gravity to pressurize the water system. Even if you are at the same level as the reservoir the pressure is still high enough due to the sizing of the pipes, large pipe flows out , downhill from reservoir and into smaller pipes will create enough pressure to go uphill. The reason cities don't use pumps only is because in power outage or disaster the city would lose all water pressure and things like fires could spread with no water to put them out.


The only time pumps are used is for lifting water to something like homes on a mountain, and even then it is lifted to a storage tank that then flows down to the homes.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
All cities use gravity to pressurize the water system. Even if you are at the same level as the reservoir the pressure is still high enough due to the sizing of the pipes, large pipe flows out , downhill from reservoir and into smaller pipes will create enough pressure to go uphill. The reason cities don't use pumps only is because in power outage or disaster the city would lose all water pressure and things like fires could spread with no water to put them out.


The only time pumps are used is for lifting water to something like homes on a mountain, and even then it is lifted to a storage tank that then flows down to the homes.

Thanks for clearing this up. We used to live much higher up on the mountain (at about 1000 feet) so I assume that we got water from a tank higher on the mountain. The reservoir is at about 450 feet. We now live at about 290 feet. All of these are feet above sea level of course.

I've confirmed with the plumber who just left that normal city pressure around here is 120-140 psi. And this guy seemed really knowledgeable.
 

etrigan420

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2007
1,723
1
81
On a related note I accidentally (duh) flushed a pair of my 4 years olds underwear down the toilet yesterday... :\

Mind bottling that it hasn't backed anything up. (Yet)
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
On a related note I accidentally (duh) flushed a pair of my 4 years olds underwear down the toilet yesterday... :\

Mind bottling that it hasn't backed anything up. (Yet)

The sewer backed up into our house several years back. The ground under the outgoing sewage pipe subsided and the pipe sagged. One day when I flushed the downstairs toilet it came up instead of going down D: The city was partially at fault for this but they never paid out. Our insurance covered it all though and we got a new basement out of it.

Hope you don't go through the same.