Bad news strikes: systolic heart murmur (Updated with seriously good news)

Mar 22, 2002
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Heya guys,

I thought I'd come on here to both state my thoughts and to hopefully read about others' experiences. In my clinical exercise physiology lab, we listened to heart sounds. The professor, an MD, just so happened to walk in and listened to my heart. He informed me that I had a systolic murmur, which are often no problem in young athletes. However, the sound of turbulent flow is actually louder than my S1 sound (the first audible noise of the heart's contraction). It sounds like water going through a small pipe and then you hear the second sound (S2 sound). He said it worried him because it was a bit loud (2-3/6 in loudness) so he referred me to a sports med doctor.

I went to the sports med doctor yesterday and we discussed my activity levels and my preferential sport (weightlifting). I told her of my healthy diet, high activity levels, intense weightlifting, etc. She listened to my heart and told me she wants me to see a cardiologist and get an echocardiogram. She said she thought it was a problem with my tricuspid valve, resulting in tricuspid valve regurgitation (blood backflow). Essentially with this condition, the right ventricle contracts to pump blood to my lungs, but blood goes backward to the right atrium and great veins. This can result in blood pooling, increased pressure in the systolic veins (resulting in decreased venous return and stroke volume), and overall poor blood circulation. The problem with a heart valve pathology is that is really effects cardiac output. Those with severe valve issues experience such symptoms as lethargy, shortness of breath, heart infections, congestive heart failure, myocardial infarction, etc. She then continued to inform me that heavy weightlifting was the worst thing I could do for this condition. Fuck. My prescription for now (and likely forever) is this: no exercise requiring a Valsalva maneuver or intense thoracic pressure for stabilization. I think I just became an endurance athlete. For those of you who don't know, I've had decent times/numbers in sprinting and squat/deadlift. I've always dreamed of beating my PRs in both, but it seems that's not to be.

I'm in the process of dealing with my insurance and getting my referral to a cardiologist. I'll get an echocardiogram there. I need to get the specifics on what types of exercises are acceptable and what aren't. But it's pretty much understood that I won't be able to do heavy squats or deadlifts if I value living for a bit. I instantly thought up one-legged movements for both squats (pistols) and deadlifts (one-legged deadies) so that's no biggie. I'll probably have to get into something more skilled though - back to Muay Thai or BJJ, which I don't exactly have the money for right now since I'll be paying $30k for physical therapy school for the next three years. I know that I'll have to make some compromises because of this. I'm just curious as to what you guys know from personal or interpersonal experiences about something like this. I'm down for any suggestions of exercises that do not require extreme tightness of the core. I may try something like a modified CrossFit Endurance while getting into a sport. I'm just pissed and, to be perfectly honest, frightened about this whole thing right now. Sigh. Thanks for reading, guys and gals.

1/26/10 UPDATE:
Ok, first let me open with lulz. I got the echo and EKG today. The doctor comes in, listens to my heart, and tells me "Yeah, you have what's known as an innocent murmur. The echo shows no irregular flow. Wanna see it?" You bet your ass I do. I watched my tricuspid valve, my mitral valve, and my aortic valve work perfectly. I do have a atrial septal aneurysm, which means the septum (wall) between my atria bulges. That's no problem at all though because it doesn't effect flow since pressure is maintained. He showed me what the doppler detected and it shows blood going the ways it was meant to. I laughed long and hard and still have the giggles from 10am.

Final diagnosis: turbulent flow from a powerful heart. So much win. So much. There's no way they could've known it was innocent without the echo. That's why my professor and the sports med doctors thought it was different locations - it was turbulent flow that was potentially unlocalize. Eff worrying myself sick. That was horrid.
 
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Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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God man, I'm sorry to hear about that SC. Horrible news man. I have nothing constructive to offer other than my sympathy. And endurance sports isn't ALL that bad.
 

Pantlegz

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2007
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Wow man thats crazy... At least you caught it now and didn't go on lifting and damage anything too bad. You're been most helpful for me and I'm sure several others here, good luck getting everything figured out hopefully you can find some sort of exercise/sport you can do that's interesting to you.
 

iluvdeal

Golden Member
Nov 22, 1999
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Whoa, I'm really sorry to hear that. I can't imagine how it must feel as any problem involving the heart is pretty scary stuff. But it is what it is right? You just gotta deal with it and move forward. It's sounds like you are doing just that with your new goals in becoming an endurance athlete and getting back into the martial arts. You are pretty fortunate to have discovered this problem through diagnosis, some might even say it was a miracle your professor happened to come and listen to your heart that day. Other people find out they have heart defects when it's too late. Good luck man.
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
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Ugh, that is one big pile of suck. So is it for sure that you have this issue or will you only know once the echocardiogram is done? And what could happen if you continue to lift heavy with this kind of condition? How common is it?

Anyways, if you really can't do weight lifting, you can still stay in great shape with sports. Along with the martial arts and endurance stuff you mentioned, I'd highly recommend looking into gymnastics. Those dudes are freakishly strong and can pull off some amazing feats (I'd LOVE to learn to do a backflip). Parkour looks pretty cool too.
 

presidentender

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2008
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Damn, damn, damn. My sympathy and condolences.

Are you sure you have to give up weight training completely? I know you're not a fan of isolation exercises (to say the least) but I'd be surprised if you couldn't be successful in spite of your condition by designing yourself a specific routine suited to people with exactly your heart condition. You might even be able to publish it.

Anyway, good luck, and I'm sorry to hear about this.
 

allies

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2002
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Agree with the sentiments above. You're an awesome asset to the H&F forums.

Hope the best for you.
 

Kipper

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2000
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Hopefully things will turn out okay. At the least, you're very fortunate to have caught it early. Keep us posted - best wishes.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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You are pretty fortunate to have discovered this problem through diagnosis, some might even say it was a miracle your professor happened to come and listen to your heart that day. Other people find out they have heart defects when it's too late. Good luck man.

I agree. I've had physicals in high school and nothing caught it then. I also went in for a shoulder injury about 2 years ago, but apparently he didn't listen to my vitals. It was good fortune to find it now before my cyclic program reached very heavy sets of 3. Now I just worry about limitations on intensity of exercise.

Ugh, that is one big pile of suck. So is it for sure that you have this issue or will you only know once the echocardiogram is done? And what could happen if you continue to lift heavy with this kind of condition? How common is it?

Anyways, if you really can't do weight lifting, you can still stay in great shape with sports. Along with the martial arts and endurance stuff you mentioned, I'd highly recommend looking into gymnastics. Those dudes are freakishly strong and can pull off some amazing feats (I'd LOVE to learn to do a backflip). Parkour looks pretty cool too.

I have valve regurgitation, no doubt. My professor thought it was mitral valve. The sports med doctor and her resident thought it was tricuspid valve. Valve regurgitation apparently runs in my family - grandma has mitral prolapse and mom has tricuspid regurge - which nobody decided to tell me about. If I lifted heavy with this valve pathology, I would blow the valve out further, resulting in greater backflow. It would degenerate further essentially. At 21, this isn't a very common problem. Some form of valve regurgitation is actually common in adults over 40 due to wear-and-tear, but it's not nearly as common in my age group.

I agree that I can stay in great shape. I just had weight goals that were so fun to meet. It's sad because I'm built for lifting - 5'8", 160, short legs, big torso. I was actually talking to my brother (spamsk8r) about focusing on some gymnastics stuff. I've already visited BeastSkills several times and am thinking about my next move. The problem with all the skilled sports is that they cost money. Muay Thai, BJJ, Gymnastics - they all require over $100 per month. I can work on gymnastics on my own, especially since I got rings this past Christmas. I pretty much told myself that now I have no excuse not to be limber, in good cardio shape (unless the doctor tells me otherwise), and strong in isometrics or endurance movements. Once I get some gymnastics stuff done, I may look into Parkour more. Thanks for the support, bud.

Are you sure you have to give up weight training completely? I know you're not a fan of isolation exercises (to say the least) but I'd be surprised if you couldn't be successful in spite of your condition by designing yourself a specific routine suited to people with exactly your heart condition. You might even be able to publish it.

She said light resistance training would be fine (and she made the motion of curls). I laughed. I imagine a great deal of compound movements (shoulder press, DB bench press, bulgarian split-squat, lunges, pistols, one-legged deadlifts, pullups, DB rows, etc) won't spike my blood pressure too much. I'm supposed to continue my program tomorrow so I may just start with variations of one-legged squats. My bench press isn't so heavy yet that I have to properly use the Valsalva so I'll keep working on that (since it is one of my huge weaknesses). I like your idea though. Thanks.
 
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RKS

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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sorry to hear the bad news but I would still get a couple more opinions. is a valve replacement an option?
 
Mar 22, 2002
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sorry to hear the bad news but I would still get a couple more opinions. is a valve replacement an option?

Considering I'm 21 and this is not a life-threatening ailment, no. Valve replacement is a pretty risky procedure and is usually only done when quality of life decreases significantly or when a valve gets infected. I have no symptoms at this point so I'm not gonna risk it. I will hone my activity to optimize my enjoyment and my heart's longevity.

Lol, and amongst this not-so-good news, I just received a letter admitting me into Chapman University's doctor of physical therapy program. I guess that helps balance things out a bit.
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
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Lol, and amongst this not-so-good news, I just received a letter admitting me into Chapman University's doctor of physical therapy program. I guess that helps balance things out a bit.

Heh, congrats! Now go out and become an expert in exercising with a bad valve :)
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
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that sucks, sc. i really feel for you, man. it's like a prima ballerina who comes down with polio or something. any chance of repair in the future if you had enough money? would it be worth it to you?
 
Mar 22, 2002
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that sucks, sc. i really feel for you, man. it's like a prima ballerina who comes down with polio or something. any chance of repair in the future if you had enough money? would it be worth it to you?

That's kinda how I feel. Showing people how to exercise and knowing all its ins and outs has been my entire education. Now I'm severely limited in what I can do. I don't wanna mope, but it blows. That's for sure.

Well, repair would involve open heart surgery and, until it starts to interfere heavily with what I do daily, I won't even consider it. However, if I start to suffer moderate symptoms, I will definitely start asking questions about replacement. But I feel like heart valves aren't a permanent surgical replacement - like most other transplants, their half life is much, much shorter than the original.
 

kamper

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
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At 21, this isn't a very common problem.

Seems odd. Given how lucky it seems that it was discovered in you, what are the chances that there are lots of people with the same thing who just don't know it? Granted, the average person doesn't lift like you. Are there many known cases of lifters just unexpectedly blowing their hearts?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Well good luck. I would guess honestly that a lot more people have issues than they are aware of.
 

Lamont Burns

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2002
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Fuck man, I'm very sad to hear this news. You were a huge boon to me personally when I started off training, and one of the main reasons I stuck with it.

I hope everything goes OK, and grats on the acceptance letter. You're going to help a lot of people out in your lifetime.
 

Titan

Golden Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Damn SC, my most heartfelt sympathies. You are a great asset to this forum and I have a ton of respect for you. You are a smart guy, you'll figure it out.

The best advice I can give is watch out for yourself psychologically. Dealing with any loss is a process, and finding the time to be at peace with yourself and deal with your emotions can be rougher than any physical workout. Don't be afraid to drop the workouts for a bit and just go relax so you can hear you inner voice. If you need sympathy don't get it from substances like alcohol, and instead get it from friends, family, and socializing.

I say that because it's important to get past the denial phase, which is what it sounds like you are still in. Never underestimate the power of denial - yours or anybody else's; it can be embedded in many layers. The only way to fully heal is to open yourself up and experience things fully, and welcome new ideas in. Some guys might recommend that you keep working through it, do a different workout like running lets say, but you need to know yourself - would you be working through the problem, or running away? I like what Robert Frost said - "The best way out is always through."

In time, you'll figure out the fitness plan. A total break might be a good idea now. Just take the time to deal with emotional stuff now and the fitness will come eventually. If you don't deal with it, it will deal with you, guaranteed.

Since I am me, I have one other thought about alternative therapies but I won't push it. Everyone knows I don't have the best opinion of western medicine but am not here to debate that. If you research on your own, you may be able to find something that helps. You're still 21 and your body can utilize it's natural HGH just fine so you have tremendous potential to heal. The one anecdotal story you remind me of is the beginning of Kevin Trudeau's book "Natural Cures they don't want you to know about" he tells the story how he himself had a serious heart condition that was deemed irreparable like yours. He didn't want to believe it (power of denial) and went the alternative route, found a guy who diagnosed him, and said there was a cure (even though conventional medicne said there wasn't). He ended up going overseas to eastern eurpoe I think for a fairly inexpensive live cell treatment which is approved standard medicine over there, and it healed his heart condition. He showed his western doctor afterwards who didn't believe it and assumed the first diagnosis was wrong (power of denial). I don't know if that is something to explore in your case, but I am throwing it out there. I didn't read that whole book, just that part, but it might be an ok place to start when you're ready. All the details are in his book (names, etc) in the beginning. You're cautious and smart enough to explore things on your own.

Just don't get codependent with diagnosis. You are a living human being who has to listen to his body to live. Don't self-identify with your condition and walk around saying things like "I have a valve condition." Don't define yourself with your medical diagnosis, in other words. They are just classifications.

Just throwing my thoughts out there, as an invitation for advice. Take it or leave it, as you see fit.

Good luck.
 
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PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
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Really sorry to hear man...my sympathies. Good thing you caught it before it became a major issue.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
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wow that really sucks, sorry to hear that. I guess you could count your blessing that you were at the right place at the right time such that your professor was able to get a listen and noticed it. You could have continued your weightlifting for however long which could have resulted in possible cardio issues.
 

InflatableBuddha

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2007
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I just came across this thread, and I'm very sorry to hear about your bad news SC.

I'll echo the other posters in saying that you're very fortunate to have discovered this issue so early, and hopefully things will become clearer once you see the cardiologist.

Perhaps a break in training is a good idea now, as it will give you time to evaluate what your future training options are. I know you'll find a way to persevere.

You're a tremendous asset to this community, and I wish you all the best.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
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Ouch, that sucks dude. Good luck with it.

Congrats on getting accepted to the program though.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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Best wishes, man.

If they clear you for training stand-up, you can at least practice some MT without having to pay for classes. I presume you attended long enough to get the basics of their striking, footwork, and such? If so, access to a heavy bag + gloves, jump rope, and shadow fighting would be much better than nothing.

From your posting here, you seem like a very positive person. So, I doubt it will keep you down for long. You will definitely find something you can put your energy into that fits your budget too, so don't sweat that. :)
 
Mar 22, 2002
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kamper: 1 in 25,000 people have tricuspid valve issues. Most of them are over the age of 40 and it's totally normal due to wear-and-tear. Their regurgitation is usually very minor. My mom actually has that.

Lamont: Thanks. I'll continue doin' my thing. If I can't max on exercise, I'll just have to improve others so they can. It's almost painful though - like breaking up with a girlfriend, but still having to work/live with her. I love exercise and all of its aspects. That's why I got into it. Eventually, I may want to get it repaired so that I can return to some normalcy, but at 21, open heart surgery is not an option and stem cell therapy is expensive.

Titan: Thank you for your post. This is quite a hard time for me - particularly because I know exactly how this effects an individual's heart efficiency and ability to do work. I was supposed to work out yesterday, but was too worried to do so. The sports med doctor told me no Valsalva, but that other weight work was fine. If my Achilles wasn't so sore, I'd be running. I may go work out tomorrow though lightly just to keep from going crazy. I'm actually looking into stem cell therapy in Britain. If I have Ebstein's, which is just the tricuspid disorder, it's gonna get worse. I could take care of it before it causes any problems with stem cells and it's a very non-invasive surgery (similar to an angiogram) compared to open heart surgery. Really though, that post is exactly what I needed and it's what I imagine I would tell someone else. I appreciate it.

darkshade: Yeah, I am pretty thankful. I was actually just thinking when my hands started getting the coldest - around the time I started weightlifting on Max-OT. I used to sleep with my hands under my neck, while on my belly. Before weightlifting, it was fine. Afterwards, they would fall asleep. I assumed it was just because of the increased muscle size, but it could've been due to aggravation or possible induction of the valve injury. I agree though. This would've been crap in a few weeks when I got to heavy sets.

InflatableBuddha: I think a break in training is actually what's driving me the craziest, lol. I may try to do some light exercise just to tell myself I'm not dying. When I first heard, it felt like I had just heard I had cancer. I was being dramatic. I just want to go back to normal daily function, even if it has to be slightly modified.

Deeko: Appreciate it, thanks man.

DaPunisher: Yeah, I'll need to find a heavy bag and some place to put it. The biggest thing I need to work on is my kicks and that's dominantly a hip capsule flexibility issue. That just will take my own effort and time. I've got most everything else so if I get cleared for MT, I'll be pretty happy. Yeah, I'm pretty positive. I just need to take some time like everybody else when something significant happens. Thanks for the feedback.

I've made an appointment to go have a consult with the cardiologist and get an echocardiogram on Tuesday. Although I may not get the results until a week later, I'm gonna slam the doctor with about 25 questions, lol. I'll keep you guys updated. I appreciate everybody's comments. I've tried to give a lot to this community - thanks for giving back.
 

SKC

Golden Member
Jan 8, 2001
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Sorry man, best wishes to you. I fully expect to see posts on adapted workout and diet regimens in the future. MT is awesome, I hope you're cleared for that. Keep your head up.