Bad News for ATI

[gsellis]

OMG! You guys need to work on your financials! The loss is a insignificant drop in the bucket for the increase in R&D expense alone (almost a $23million increase for the quarter compared to 2003!) $400,000 is insignificant considering they have $644 million in cash on hand.

Read the real report here...

ATI's quarterly statement

 

[nRollo]

ATI, before the 9700Pro, lost millions every quarter. (so I doubt they're going anywhere)

They're in a pretty bad position now for sure: people want to upgrade that bought high last June, and they only have two choices-SLI or 7800GTX.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: X
Sounds like despite great success with the X800XL, ATI is hurting due to lower profit margins on these mid-range cards. I wonder if they will try to jack up the cost of R520 to get back into higher margins?

i have really NOT too much insight in internal business structures regarding ATI - but i am QUITE sure that consumer gfx-cards are only a FRACTION of what ATI earns its money with.

And for sure not high-end parts !

I THINK the majority of sales/profits are made w/ stuff like the integrated gfx for cell-phones which (in my opinion) are a MUCH higher number than their consumer high-end cards.

*IF* their consumer gfx/pc-cards ARE a reason for their loss then it's their pricing and always "non availibility" of "new announced" cards....and the fact that NV is already coming out with a 2sn gen SM3.0 card which is AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW - while we again are still *waiting* for a card (R520) - not to mention that noone knows when it actually will be available.

the last time ATI did something good was the Radeon 9700/9800...a all-around VERY GOOD product....and everything else is refreshes......SAME old architecture...maybe change from AGP to pciex - but STILL the same old stuff which is EXTREMELY overprized.

Remember just this february people sold X850XT PE on ebay and at retailers for a mere $1000 dollars - i bought my X850XT and paid $500 a while after. ANd the $500 was already a VERY good deal for a OEM card. (of course its NOT the P.E.

Now NV is out with a high-end card for $70 more...but (IMHO you can see that the money spent might be worth it (as long as i am allowed such a term for a $570 card).

What does ATI ? Didnt they just release some uninteresting refresh-card a few weeks ago ? X550 or something ? They have a ***load of card which are getting less and less interesting.

 

[coomar]

an x700 vanilla vs an 6600 vanilla

 

[Sonikku]

Well, at least the Xbox 360 will pad their losses. With every 360 produced ATI sells a card. Making a deal with the devil pays!

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Rollo
ATI, before the 9700Pro, lost millions every quarter. (so I doubt they're going anywhere)

 

[bjc112]

Sucks to see them lose, but they are doing just fine..


With $530 million in revenue and $39 million net profit last year, they aren't going anywhere...


7800 is impressive @ high resolution, but I have a feeling ATi's release will be pretty impressvie too.

 

[batmanuel]

I personally kind of like the X300/9600 vanilla cards for basic 2D and HTPC duties. They are very well behaved cards when it comes to running a flat panel off of DVI (Since I've been burned by crappy DVI on a FX 5200, I just don't trust nVidia's low end cards anymore when it comes to DVI support). Also, for me, the DivX and XviD hardware support trumps the enhanced DVD playback you get with the PureVideo enabled 6200TC.

 

[sandorski]

Though they have had supply issues and a lacklustre middle offerings, I wonder if the PCI-e/AGP issue is most to blame? They practically abandoned AGP when AGP still dominates on the System side of things. If that's the case, as time passes they'll likely gain back profits as the PCI-e transition continues.

gsellis raises a good point though, other things could very well have been included in this particular QTR that are one time charges.

 

[SilverTrine]

Things are tight in this business, checkbox features like SLI made the difference, personally I cant see strapping two hot power hungry 6600gts in a box but SLI sold cards without a doubt.
Mix in delayed products and a few missteps like the x600 line and you see the position ATi is in. It all ebbs and flows.
Until Nvidia got the 6800 line out with no competition they were consistently underperforming expectations and their stock was in the dumps priced well below ATi, so things do shift in this business constantly.

 

[IamTHEsnake]

Originally posted by: Malladine
How are they still in business, losing so much money?! Man imagine if they left the market to Nvidia, wow that would suck.

I'm thankful for the competition!

rant/

Companies lose money every now and then, it happens. AMD has been selling chips like mad and still turned in a loss of 55 Million. THEY ARE STILL IN BUSINESS. Now their loss was due to paying off the debt of FAB36, but the point here is that losses like that are INSIGNIFICANT to companies of such great size.

These corporations have large buffers for things like this, some more than others. Intel having un-imaginable amounts where as AMD having more comprehendable amounts.

Lastly, if your are ignorant than this is a wake-up call to part of how business works, but if you simply didn't have any idea, well then this is a chance to be enlightened.


/rant

 

[IamTHEsnake]

Originally posted by: bjc112

7800 is impressive @ high resolution, but I have a feeling ATi's release will be pretty impressvie too.

You can bet your ass they will.

The rumors about nVidia's G70 came true, I don't see why the ATi rumors won't... well the reasonable ones at least.

BTW, I'm not biased I am buying a G70 for now.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Oh come on...A loss of $9.4 million is really nothing for ATI when they get revenues of $530 million.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Malladine
How are they still in business, losing so much money?! Man imagine if they left the market to Nvidia, wow that would suck.

I'm thankful for the competition!

Well that settles it! My next video card will be a ATI! :laugh:

 

[magomago]

I wonder if ATI will ever reach the spot it once had.

The 9700pro brought them their sucess. The 9800 was just a quick rehash, and the x800 series is the same design on steroids...

but even the x800 has trouble against nvidia currently.

nvidia proved it could create new and powerful designs, and they showed that with the 6800 series to make up for the 5XXX blunder.

I'm waiting to see if ATI can do the same, or if they have to rely on other companies (I heard that when they purchased ArtX, their design became the 9700pro)

 

[touchmyichi]

Originally posted by: magomago
I wonder if ATI will ever reach the spot it once had.

The 9700pro brought them their sucess. The 9800 was just a quick rehash, and the x800 series is the same design on steroids...

but even the x800 has trouble against nvidia currently.

nvidia proved it could create new and powerful designs, and they showed that with the 6800 series to make up for the 5XXX blunder.

I'm waiting to see if ATI can do the same, or if they have to rely on other companies (I heard that when they purchased ArtX, their design became the 9700pro)

woah woah I wouldn't jump to that. ATI has only lost ONE round. Nvidia lost against the 9700 and 9800- that was almost 2 straight years. ATI could easily make a comeback in this next round, we don't even know how their part compares yet. ATI has made some pretty incredible products and I trust their ability to possibly release another one.

 

[Zebo]

Real simple there's only two cards ATI makes worth buying and even those have issues.

1. x800xl, but came a year too late after everyone already baught 6600GT's or splurged and got a 6800GT.

2. x8x0 XT/PE, had sparse availability for the ones who did want to buy them and is too expensive for 95% of public anyway.


So when most of your cards get beat at every price point, you can't deliver the "killer app" cards nV takes market share. What will r520 be like? $900 and 4 available? No thanks a 7800GT should be $400 by then.

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: Zebo
So when most of your cards get beat at every price point, you can't deliver the "killer app" cards nV takes market share. What will r520 be like? $900 and 4 available? No thanks a 7800GT should be $400 by then.

ATI will release R520 at whatever price the 7800GTX is at they won't price it way over unless there is a noticable performance boost. Also we havn't even seen the 7800GT yet (unless thats a typo and your talking about the GTX) it will most likely have an MSRP of $500 and since its currently not here there is no way its price will have dropped that far below MSRP if ATI does release R520 in about a month as rumors indicate.

 

[ddogg]

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: Zebo
So when most of your cards get beat at every price point, you can't deliver the "killer app" cards nV takes market share. What will r520 be like? $900 and 4 available? No thanks a 7800GT should be $400 by then.

ATI will release R520 at whatever price the 7800GTX is at they won't price it way over unless there is a noticable performance boost. Also we havn't even seen the 7800GT yet (unless thats a typo and your talking about the GTX) it will most likely have an MSRP of $500 and since its currently not here there is no way its price will have dropped that far below MSRP if ATI does release R520 in about a month as rumors indicate.

they may release the R520 at a similar price as the 7800GTX but availability might be so bad it would sell close to $1000. i feel this is the only problem ATI is having at the moment.

 

[ddogg]

Originally posted by: touchmyichi

Originally posted by: magomago
I wonder if ATI will ever reach the spot it once had.

The 9700pro brought them their sucess. The 9800 was just a quick rehash, and the x800 series is the same design on steroids...

but even the x800 has trouble against nvidia currently.

nvidia proved it could create new and powerful designs, and they showed that with the 6800 series to make up for the 5XXX blunder.

I'm waiting to see if ATI can do the same, or if they have to rely on other companies (I heard that when they purchased ArtX, their design became the 9700pro)

woah woah I wouldn't jump to that. ATI has only lost ONE round. Nvidia lost against the 9700 and 9800- that was almost 2 straight years. ATI could easily make a comeback in this next round, we don't even know how their part compares yet. ATI has made some pretty incredible products and I trust their ability to possibly release another one.

ATI hasnt lost just ONE round but this is one of the many it lost before the 9700Pro. If the R520 fails to impress or has bad availability it seems more and more that the 9700/9800 series was a fluke.

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: ddogg

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: Zebo
So when most of your cards get beat at every price point, you can't deliver the "killer app" cards nV takes market share. What will r520 be like? $900 and 4 available? No thanks a 7800GT should be $400 by then.

ATI will release R520 at whatever price the 7800GTX is at they won't price it way over unless there is a noticable performance boost. Also we havn't even seen the 7800GT yet (unless thats a typo and your talking about the GTX) it will most likely have an MSRP of $500 and since its currently not here there is no way its price will have dropped that far below MSRP if ATI does release R520 in about a month as rumors indicate.

they may release the R520 at a similar price as the 7800GTX but availability might be so bad it would sell close to $1000. i feel this is the only problem ATI is having at the moment.

I'm sure ATI will wait till they have good availability before releaseing R520, nVidia set a high bar (rightfully so) with this launch and ATI has to match it or get the bad publicity, they did for last gen but that time so did nVidia this time they won't be so lucky.