Reminds me of that X-Files episode where a monster killed anyone in the neighborhood who didn't comply with the homeowner association rules. 
<< And maybe you missed the part where I agreed that she shouldn't have been sent to jail but in reality we don't know the REAL reason she was sent to jail. >>
If you watch the news story, THE LADY ASKED TO BE SENT TO JAIL!!
I just have a few thoughts to put forward here:
money. everything seems to be about money to some people...property values this, investments that...BFD. Money is utterly useless, it's unreal, it's evil. Now look, I agree that you shouldn't be able to harm or take anothers property...but value is completely subjective. I have a collection of Magic the Gathering cards that people offer me thousands of dollars for...WHY? They're stupid pieces of paper. I only have them because I enjoy the game. I've never made more than 24,000 a year in my life. I have a complete and total disregard for the illusion of money and I get by just fine. People need to stop the greed, stop believing that green pieces of paper matter more than love, compassio, intellect, learning, health, or anything else. As long as you don't get wet when it rains, aren't nude because you have nothing to wear and aren't hungry because you have no food, you're rich and doing fine.
laws. All this talk about 'just change the laws'...ARE YOU INSANE??? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to enact change within the current political system? If you aren't rich or influential you can absolutely forget it. Seriously folks get real...laws don't get changed any more, except by special interest groups. And then they're always changed for the worse.
moving. If we don't like it, move...ummm that idea was stupid in the 60's (love it or leave it) and it's just as stupid now. There's no logic to that argument, it's indefensible. It's an escape that people who are too lazy or arrogant to think for themselves use. "Just go away so I don't have to be a human" How about no, ok. What gives you the right to tell me to move? Why don't you move? Let's look at this what if: I've lived in my house, built by my father for 20 years. Over time the surrounding areas have developed and modern expensive houses have been built in the area by an investor looking to get rich. Now those people who bought those houses want to set the standards by which I have to live. SCREW THAT. There must be allowance for individuals to live their own lives free from any interfearance of this sort, and that place is the home. Having money doesn't make someone right...in fact it usually makes them wrong. Who decides???? Shouldn't I, having the longesttime in the area, have the right to continue to live as I choose? No, move is not an option, and asking someon to do it is conceited arrogance. (btw, the above example is in no way true, I was just using it as an exampl)
too tired to continue, many other points to make but I'll save them for later.
money. everything seems to be about money to some people...property values this, investments that...BFD. Money is utterly useless, it's unreal, it's evil. Now look, I agree that you shouldn't be able to harm or take anothers property...but value is completely subjective. I have a collection of Magic the Gathering cards that people offer me thousands of dollars for...WHY? They're stupid pieces of paper. I only have them because I enjoy the game. I've never made more than 24,000 a year in my life. I have a complete and total disregard for the illusion of money and I get by just fine. People need to stop the greed, stop believing that green pieces of paper matter more than love, compassio, intellect, learning, health, or anything else. As long as you don't get wet when it rains, aren't nude because you have nothing to wear and aren't hungry because you have no food, you're rich and doing fine.
laws. All this talk about 'just change the laws'...ARE YOU INSANE??? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to enact change within the current political system? If you aren't rich or influential you can absolutely forget it. Seriously folks get real...laws don't get changed any more, except by special interest groups. And then they're always changed for the worse.
moving. If we don't like it, move...ummm that idea was stupid in the 60's (love it or leave it) and it's just as stupid now. There's no logic to that argument, it's indefensible. It's an escape that people who are too lazy or arrogant to think for themselves use. "Just go away so I don't have to be a human" How about no, ok. What gives you the right to tell me to move? Why don't you move? Let's look at this what if: I've lived in my house, built by my father for 20 years. Over time the surrounding areas have developed and modern expensive houses have been built in the area by an investor looking to get rich. Now those people who bought those houses want to set the standards by which I have to live. SCREW THAT. There must be allowance for individuals to live their own lives free from any interfearance of this sort, and that place is the home. Having money doesn't make someone right...in fact it usually makes them wrong. Who decides???? Shouldn't I, having the longesttime in the area, have the right to continue to live as I choose? No, move is not an option, and asking someon to do it is conceited arrogance. (btw, the above example is in no way true, I was just using it as an exampl)
too tired to continue, many other points to make but I'll save them for later.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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<< AmusedOne, that's funny. The Conservatives are issuing a public dress code for public schools in Ontario as we speak. >>
And I disagree with that, as well.
Folks, NO WHERE in the Constitution are you guaranteed the right of your property to retain, or gain value. Nor are you guaranteed the right to be free from being offended.
Your property is an investment. An investment has risks. To force others to make your property gain or retain value is an infringment on THEIR rights.
All I'm saying, is get government OUT of it. If you like, start communities with CIVIL agreements on property appearence and upkeep. Like condo and subdivision associations already do. THAT, I have no problem with.
But when you start making it a CRIMINAL offense, THAT is tyranny. The GOVERNMENT has no right to dictate how we use our property. However, a voluntary CIVIL agreement signed upon purchese of the land IS valid, and infringes on NO one's rights.
<< But when you start making it a CRIMINAL offense, THAT is tyranny. The GOVERNMENT has no right to dictate how we use our property. >>
I'm curious, where exactly can I find that in the US Constitution? I was always under the impression that governments do have the right to dictate how we use our property in certain situations, such as for building the infrastructure that is necessary to support our society, or to protect citizens from health and safety hazards.
echo chrictons girl
if it wasn't so, why do people get up in arms over prisons/waste facilities being built next door to them
my apt. is a mess (lot's of books, mags, etc.) because i'm never there, but at least people don't have to look at it and it doesn't lower the value of the neighborhoods--the crackheads do that anyway tho
the girl across from me says my apartment looks like something out of seven (she wouldnt've seen inside but she was being nosy agin), but what does she know? she doesn't even comb her hair
if it wasn't so, why do people get up in arms over prisons/waste facilities being built next door to them
my apt. is a mess (lot's of books, mags, etc.) because i'm never there, but at least people don't have to look at it and it doesn't lower the value of the neighborhoods--the crackheads do that anyway tho
the girl across from me says my apartment looks like something out of seven (she wouldnt've seen inside but she was being nosy agin), but what does she know? she doesn't even comb her hair
<< Probation officer Greg Wager said Rexroad told municipal Judge Diana VanDeHey: "Judge, just put me in jail." >>
<< It was the second conviction for her for maintaining an offensive property. She received a year's suspended sentence for the first offense. >>
Another source
Yes there are reasons she didn't but she had a history and had been asked then told to clean it up. These rules are in place to give the city a nocer look. No one wants to live near an EYESORE.
She doesn't wnat to clean it up and that is where I have the problem.
it sounds like her neighborhood was kinda dumpy anyways, but I agree with this decision. I have some background in real-estate, and I know that this kind of crap DOES affect the values of houses around you. Heck, I live in a nice, clean, upper middle class neighborhood, and this new couple moved in, and they parked a trailer in their front yard next to their driveway, well, it was there for a couple weeks, then the neighbors all rose up, and asked him to move it, and he did, but if he would't have, they (i wasn't part of this group, but I didn't like the trailer, it looked white trashy) they could have forced him to move it.
Also, there are many residential developements and communities, where you CAN NOT do what ever you want on your property and have to agree to certain rules when you move in there, such as no outdoor pools, the house archictecture must look nice, no clothes lines, no basketball hoop, nice lawn and upkeep... that kind of stuff. Some of the rules are pretty strict, but by abiding by them, it makes the neighborhood look really nice.
Also, there are many residential developements and communities, where you CAN NOT do what ever you want on your property and have to agree to certain rules when you move in there, such as no outdoor pools, the house archictecture must look nice, no clothes lines, no basketball hoop, nice lawn and upkeep... that kind of stuff. Some of the rules are pretty strict, but by abiding by them, it makes the neighborhood look really nice.
amd we don't really own our property, the government owns everything, we're just kinda renting it long term.
Amused
Elite Member
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<<
<< But when you start making it a CRIMINAL offense, THAT is tyranny. The GOVERNMENT has no right to dictate how we use our property. >>
I'm curious, where exactly can I find that in the US Constitution? I was always under the impression that governments do have the right to dictate how we use our property in certain situations, such as for building the infrastructure that is necessary to support our society, or to protect citizens from health and safety hazards. >>
The Constitution is a limiting document. Any powers not given to government are reserved by the staes, and the people thereof (Tenth Amendment).
The only power government has over private property is eminent domain. The right to take property for infrastructure, with fair compensation, of course.
Health and safety hazards have a direct impact on the civil rights of others. Having an "ugly" yard does not.
Of course, fascist judges and politicians have twisted the law... but that does not change the original intent of the Founding Fathers.
Again, to expect the government to protect your investments by violating the rights of private property owners is ludicrous on it's face. That should be a CIVIL matter, not a criminal one.
Amused
Elite Member
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<< it sounds like her neighborhood was kinda dumpy anyways, but I agree with this decision. I have some background in real-estate, and I know that this kind of crap DOES affect the values of houses around you. Heck, I live in a nice, clean, upper middle class neighborhood, and this new couple moved in, and they parked a trailer in their front yard next to their driveway, well, it was there for a couple weeks, then the neighbors all rose up, and asked him to move it, and he did, but if he would't have, they (i wasn't part of this group, but I didn't like the trailer, it looked white trashy) they could have forced him to move it.
Also, there are many residential developements and communities, where you CAN NOT do what ever you want on your property and have to agree to certain rules when you move in there, such as no outdoor pools, the house archictecture must look nice, no clothes lines, no basketball hoop, nice lawn and upkeep... that kind of stuff. Some of the rules are pretty strict, but by abiding by them, it makes the neighborhood look really nice. >>
BINGO! All of those examples are civil, not criminal actions. Sue your neighbor if they are affecting the resale value of your home, but to expect the government to jail them? Good gawd, that is the worst form of tyranny there is.
<< it sounds like her neighborhood was kinda dumpy anyways, but I agree with this decision. I have some background in real-estate, and I know that this kind of crap DOES affect the values of houses around you. Heck, I live in a nice, clean, upper middle class neighborhood, and this new couple moved in, and they parked a trailer in their front yard next to their driveway, well, it was there for a couple weeks, then the neighbors all rose up, and asked him to move it, and he did, but if he would't have, they (i wasn't part of this group, but I didn't like the trailer, it looked white trashy) they could have forced him to move it.
Also, there are many residential developements and communities, where you CAN NOT do what ever you want on your property and have to agree to certain rules when you move in there, such as no outdoor pools, the house archictecture must look nice, no clothes lines, no basketball hoop, nice lawn and upkeep... that kind of stuff. Some of the rules are pretty strict, but by abiding by them, it makes the neighborhood look really nice. >>
Uh oh! I meet your criteria for white trash. I have a trailer in my driveway. I must use it for work. Damn blue collar people! Why can't they live in the ghetto! Oh, I tried your way, I moved the first one away from my home to a "secure" lot, where it promptly got stolen. So the new one stays here where me and my white trash dogs can watch it. How does my trailer affect the neighbors property value any more than driving a particular car. Say you have a multi color car because you like it. What happens if they neighbors don't. Must you sell it and buy a vehicle up to their standards?
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
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but to expect the government to jail them? Good gawd, that is the worst form of tyranny there is.
How is it tyranny???
The defination for tyranny is
1. "A government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler" 2. "Oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state>"
The City council of Longmont who enacted the city code the judge enforced is a long way from being a tyranny.
you said "its the worst form of tyranny there is" dude news flash!!! Tyranny does not exist in the US. If you want to see tyranny travel to Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba...
How is it tyranny???
The defination for tyranny is
1. "A government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler" 2. "Oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state>"
The City council of Longmont who enacted the city code the judge enforced is a long way from being a tyranny.
you said "its the worst form of tyranny there is" dude news flash!!! Tyranny does not exist in the US. If you want to see tyranny travel to Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba...
this trailer was parked in his yard, had wooden blocks around the tires, and at the base, and wasn't moved or used for weeks. And, actually, there is a difference between having a trailer on the driveway than having on parked in the yard.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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<< but to expect the government to jail them? Good gawd, that is the worst form of tyranny there is.
How is it tyranny???
The defination for tyranny is
1. "A government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler" 2. "Oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state>"
The City council of Longmont who enacted the city code the judge enforced is a long way from being a tyranny.
you said "its the worst form of tyranny there is" dude news flash!!! Tyranny does not exist in the US. If you want to see tyranny travel to Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba... >>
Jailing people for not doing with their private property as the GOVERNMENT pleases is oppressive. Just because it hasn't come to the extremes of Cuba, Iraq, etc., does not mean it's not tyranny.
Oppression is the removal of people's freedoms and rights. This lady not only lost her freedom to do as she pleases on her rightfully owned property, she has lost ALL her freedom by being jailed.
Tyranny is sneaky. You have no idea you're living under it, until it's too late.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
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She went to jail for breaking a city code. This code was enacted by the city council. Longmont and most cities and towns have an Ordinance that specifically deals with yard up keep. My town has one and im sure yours does too. If those laws bother you then you have several choices. 1. Suck it up and deal with it. 2. start a petition and have the laws changed. 3. Move to the country where you wont have to deal with it.
Its that simple. and its not Tyranny. Punishing somebody for breaking a resonable law is in no way oppression. you my friend are an anarchist!
Its that simple. and its not Tyranny. Punishing somebody for breaking a resonable law is in no way oppression. you my friend are an anarchist!
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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<< She went to jail for breaking a city code. This code was enacted by the city council. Longmont and most cities and towns have an Ordinance that specifically deals with yard up keep. My town has one and im sure yours does too. If those laws bother you then you have several choices. 1. Suck it up and deal with it. 2. start a petition and have the laws changed. 3. Move to the country where you wont have to deal with it.
Its that simple. and its not Tyranny. Punishing somebody for breaking a resonable law is in no way oppression. you my friend are an anarchist! >>
That's just it. It's not a reasonable law. It violates her right to private property.
No, I'm not an anarchist. I believe we need laws that forbid the harming of other people. However, laws that forbid people to do as they please with their property, so long as they cause no direct harm to others, is oppressive.
In MOST cases, communities and neighborhoods take care of this issue with CIVIL contracts, and CIVIL courts. I have no problem with this.
If you think the government is the answer to all problems, you my friend are a fascist.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
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tell you what, check with the town you live in and see if they have laws on the books dealing with yard up keep. The law in Longmont might not seem reasonable to you but to the citizens of Longmont it is.
Im for a limited government and in no way a fascist.
Im for a limited government and in no way a fascist.
crim·i·nal Of, involving, or having the nature of crime
crimeAn act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction
Violated a law twice IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE
crimeAn act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction
Violated a law twice IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE
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