Backup Methods: external USB vs SATA RAID-1?

[o]

Ive been wondering about the overall pros/cons (including cost, if gotten used) of:


two pair of SATA drives (four drives) in RAID-1 (mirroring each other)

or/vs:

two internal IDE/PATA drives plus two external USB drives (IDE/PATA drives in USB cases..)


for the purpose of backup/saftey mainly


Also, is there (or could there be) a way/program which could allow you to easily create and manage a simple sort-of "_Selective_ Registry-Backup(s)" to save and reload... so you could keep the OS on its own separate drive or partition.. reinstalling it every so often, and not have to reinstall games/programs etc... (allow you to just recreate their registry entries [*the ones you want, not the whole registry*], in basically one click.., for the games/programs which seem to need some registry entry/whatever in the OS)?

 

[meltdown75]

Just a comment on the second portion of your post, re: registry-only backup...

Wouldn't it make more sense to just get the OS & various software setups to where you want them and just clone the drive? That way you would always have the clone in that preferred state on hand for backup purposes.

I don't have much to say about the SATA vs. IDE setups for backup. Personally I'd stick with IDE vs. the RAID setup but that's only due to my familiarlity with one over the other. I think the IDE would be more cost-effective though, and obviously easier to set up.

 

[Navid]

RAID1 is not backup!

If you get a virus, it will be on both RAID1 drives (this will not happen to a backup). If you delete a file by mistake, that file will be gone since it will be deleted from both RAID1 drives (this will not happen with a real backup).

RAID1 is to keep the file system up and running all the time even if one physical drive fails. This is very different from a backup.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Navid
RAID1 is not backup!

:thumbsup:

RAID is designed to protect your UP TIME. Backups are to protect your data. Don't confuse the two or you'll cry someday.

 

[Malak]

A large external drive would be best for backup. Anything internal is not protected. You can get up to 1TB external.

 

[o]

meltdown75 wrote:
>
Just a comment on the second portion of your post, re: registry-only backup...
Wouldn't it make more sense to just get the OS & various software setups to where you want them and just clone the drive? That way you would always have the clone in that preferred state on hand for backup purposes.
>


*Except* if you install other things you definately want at *any time later*, youd have to lose/reinstall all of that just to renew/flush the system..

Used _in_conjuction_ with image cloning the drive, the selective registry backup would allow you retain everything else you want to keep that you added/changed at any time *since* the original install (and the clone of the OS partition youd only want to do of the first/early state it was in, not after youd been using it for a while because then youd have all the junk too.. that wouldnt be the prefered state without the crap but *with* everything you want. Youd be stuck with only what was originally installed at that time. This in conjunction would allow alot more flexibility). This (a 'Selective Registry Backup manager' program) could allow you to instantly renew / get rid of what you dont want [*and/or dont even know about*] and resume with *everything* you DO want as quickly and easily as possible..



>
>I think the IDE would be more cost-effective though, and obviously easier to set up.
>

Now that I see there is a drive letter reassigning program that seems better than it did..

Are used prices for large (160-300g) IDE drives alot lower than for SATA drives (new drives seemed close in price the last I looked, and are SATA drives a lot more reliable and use less power or?)
or is it expensive because to use SATA reliably you need (expensive?) dedicated cards (rather than onboard SATA [or IDE RAID?] hookups on a 2002-2004 motherboard??)


For backup I was thinking IDE drives in external USB cases. Would that be the best/cheapest/smartest way? ("1Tb" size.. would that be a slow tape drive or something that large?)

Is there (a best) freeware backup managing software/program which makes it very easy to do backup for multiple drives/partitions (by updating: not rewriting the whole backup drive every time..) which can be done both while running within an OS (W98 etc..), *and* capable from ('orbit': ) setup on a disk/disc/pre-OS capable program that recognizes USB drives... ?
..Which you can possibly setup to backup everything in the customized way you want in one click (different drives/partitions to their appropriate backup drive/partition)
[and restore as easily in reverse..] [possibly even able to turn on each backup drive (one at a time) and update them, then turn them back off.. automated?]


RAID1 *+* external backup seemed best, but I couldnt afford that
(and if IDE drives are used for the RAID seems would that be alot more power usage and heat compared to using SATA drives?)


>
>RAID is designed to protect your UP TIME. Backups are to protect your data. Don't confuse the two or you'll cry someday.
>

... Thanks



>
>If you get a virus, it will be on both RAID1 drives (this will not happen to a backup). If you delete a file by mistake, that file will be gone since it will be deleted from both RAID1 drives (this will not happen with a real backup).
>

Thats what I was afraid of..
(although I also was really not wanting to have to do the tediousness and wear of turning drives on and off over and over to do manual backup though.. would that be more or less wear than leaving SATA or PATA/IDE drives running all the time?)

 

[Smilin]

Just schedule a nightly full backup to run to your external drive.

When you want a backup, flip the drive on before you go to bed and flip it off in the morning. Any other time it will simply fail.

The "selective registry backup" isn't really a viable concept. Just use system restore points and system state backups.

 

[o]

>Just schedule a nightly full backup to run to your external drive.
>When you want a backup, flip the drive on before you go to bed and flip it off in the morning. Any other time it will simply fail.


What is the best easiest freeware program(s) for that?
(which can also be used/run independent of an OS)

(I wouldnt want it to rewrite the whole drive every time, that would be unnecessary.., Ive heard there are some which can do quick update type backup..)

Is it possible for a backup program to turn on connected external USB drives to backup, and then turn them back off when finished?




>Just use system restore points and system state backups.


(then you still get all the crap at those points, and/or have to reinstall a bunch of stuff though..)


What are the best easiest (freeware) program(s) for that?


thanks



>The "selective registry backup" isn't really a viable concept.


Why exactly?


(Some programs are self sufficient... why couldnt the parts/settings of some programs which get put in the OS folders be saved and restored exactly the same on the same computer/hardware setup?
Registry backup exists after all doesnt it? I thought I remembered reading that things like "Appearance" settings can be found and saved individually through there..? is it more than just 'registry' backup/settings that would be needed?)

 

[RebateMonger]

If you are running Windows XP, 2000, or 2003, the built-in Windows NTBackup program works quite well and is free. It can do both full and various types of incremental backups, can run scheduled backups, and backup verifiy. That's all that many small businesses use, since they don't want to spend $700 on a 3rd-party backup program.

There's a built-in "Full System Backup" setting, that includes the System State and other key data needed to rebuild the whole PC or server. The XP and 2003 version also does ASR Backup, which gives a way to recovery the entire system without re-installing the operating system before loading the System State and user data.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: o
>Just schedule a nightly full backup to run to your external drive.
>When you want a backup, flip the drive on before you go to bed and flip it off in the morning. Any other time it will simply fail.


What is the best easiest freeware program(s) for that?
(which can also be used/run independent of an OS)

ntbackup, built in to the OS and free.

(I wouldnt want it to rewrite the whole drive every time, that would be unnecessary.., Ive heard there are some which can do quick update type backup..)

do an initial full backup then use incrementals or (my favorite) differentials from then on.

Is it possible for a backup program to turn on connected external USB drives to backup, and then turn them back off when finished?

Not really. You could maybe script something with disk management or device manager to connect/disconnect or something. More hassle than it's worth imho.

>Just use system restore points and system state backups.
(then you still get all the crap at those points, and/or have to reinstall a bunch of stuff though..)

not at all. restore points do system state and some select system files. It's designed exactly so you don't have to reinstall a bunch of stuff.

What are the best easiest (freeware) program(s) for that?

ntbackup

>The "selective registry backup" isn't really a viable concept.


Why exactly?


(Some programs are self sufficient... why couldnt the parts/settings of some programs which get put in the OS folders be saved and restored exactly the same on the same computer/hardware setup?
Registry backup exists after all doesnt it? I thought I remembered reading that things like "Appearance" settings can be found and saved individually through there..? is it more than just 'registry' backup/settings that would be needed?)

[/quote]
it's going to depend application to application. Quake III for instance simply puts the regkeys in needed to register the program and later uninstall it. It would be easy to selectively restore these keys. Problem is, the same keys couldn't be used for something else. Office for instance is going to be making COM, Class, OLE, registrations just to name a few.

I can honestly say there is a good chance I know more about the registry than anyone you've ever met (humble no, but true).

Selectively backing up and restoring portions of the registry just isn't feasable. Just stick with restore points and a system state backup (typically 200-250 megs at most) and you'll be good to go.

🙂

 

[o]

>>(which can also be used/run independent of an OS)

>ntbackup, built in to the OS and free.


I guess you missed that I said _independent of OS_ though..^


What about something (with USB support) which can be run in Linux and W9x (and W2000 / crossplatform support etc..), and especially, can also be run without an OS (from CD or?)? [that way if your OS drive dies (or OS gets mangled), you arent stuck in the catch22 of needing to have the OS running *already* to be able to run the backup program to restore to a blank replacement drive..]



>do an initial full backup then use incrementals or (my favorite) differentials from then on.


Ok, that sounds like what Im talking about, but what is the difference betwee 'incrementals' and 'differentials'?




>>Is it possible for a backup program to turn on connected external USB drives to backup, and then turn them back off when finished?

>Not really. You could maybe script something with disk management or device manager to connect/disconnect or something. More hassle than it's worth imho.
>

It seems very worth it, longterm, to be able to just click a button to do all the backup (or even automate that way), and not have to open a cabinet or wherever you keep the backup drive and turn it on and then do the same to turn it back off later every time, over an over...

What Im asking is: is it technically possible, to turn a (any?) regular external (IDE hd in external case..) USB drive on/off through USB message? (or would it at least need to have a certain type of power switch?)




>Office for instance is going to be making COM, Class, OLE, registrations just to name a few.


Could a program keep track of things like these, to save and restore?




>>(then you still get all the crap at those points, and/or have to reinstall a bunch of stuff though..)

>not at all. restore points do system state and some select system files. It's designed exactly so you don't have to reinstall a bunch of stuff.
>


Im talking about spyware, and other clutter etc... etc...

How does it know to get rid of *everything else* and keeping all the system stuff, *and the programs you want*?



>Problem is, the same keys couldn't be used for something else.

you mean too many different *types* of keys/files are created in different places ?


>Office for instance is going to be making COM, Class, OLE, registrations just to name a few.

yet these are all accessible and harnessed somehow (there is some connection/thread to all of them somewhere connecting them [these kind of registry keys/components of each program..], including through "Add/Remove Programs" listing?? right?), could they not also be identified, and then saved?


thanks

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: o
What about something (with USB support) which can be run in Linux and W9x (and W2000 / crossplatform support etc..), and especially, can also be run without an OS (from CD or?)? [that way if your OS drive dies (or OS gets mangled), you arent stuck in the catch22 of needing to have the OS running *already* to be able to run the backup program to restore to a blank replacement drive..]

Probably isn't what you're looking for, but here's a backup software I've used, which does a complete backup & does not require the OS installed before doing a full restore. The software allows you to write a bootable cd that will begin the restore:
http://www.backupedge.com/

It's only for the non-Windows operating systems, though.

 

[Smilin]

What about something (with USB support) which can be run in Linux and W9x (and W2000 / crossplatform support etc..), and especially, can also be run without an OS (from CD or?)? [that way if your OS drive dies (or OS gets mangled), you arent stuck in the catch22 of needing to have the OS running *already* to be able to run the backup program to restore to a blank replacement drive..]

Check out ASR (built into ntbackup). It does an OS install+restore simultaneously. Works great with external drives. There may be some third party stuff but being from MS I'm not all that familiar with it. I know there is some big-gun stuff out there like Bare Metal Restore from Veritas but I'm not at all sure about consumer versions.

Ok, that sounds like what Im talking about, but what is the difference betwee 'incrementals' and 'differentials'?

Ok, this is an easy answer but the fact you are asking worries me just a little bit 🙂
full backups back up all files on the disk then clear the archive bit.
incrementals backup just files with the archive bit, and clear the bit after.
differentials backup just files with archive bit, but leave the bit set after.

Net result:
incremental=everything that's changed since last incremental. To restore do full+ALL incrementals.
differential=everything that's changed since last full. To restore do a full+the latest differential only.
Re-read the above until it sticks very well.

It seems very worth it, longterm, to be able to just click a button to do all the backup (or even automate that way), and not have to open a cabinet or wherever you keep the backup drive and turn it on and then do the same to turn it back off later every time, over an over...

What Im asking is: is it technically possible, to turn a (any?) regular external (IDE hd in external case..) USB drive on/off through USB message? (or would it at least need to have a certain type of power switch?)

Short answer: yes you could do it.
Long answer: you're on your own 😛. I wouldn't.

>Office for instance is going to be making COM, Class, OLE, registrations just to name a few.
Could a program keep track of things like these, to save and restore?

Sure. Not aware of such a program though. To get a truly healthy respect for what you are asking, download regmon from sysinternals. Free program. Fire it up and have it start recording registry activity. You'll get 10 screens of data before you can hit the stop button.

Winstall and other programs work by performing a before/after snapshot of the system. It allows them to graft an installation on without performing the actual install. This might be something like what you have in mind but maybe not.

Im talking about spyware, and other clutter etc... etc...

How does it know to get rid of *everything else* and keeping all the system stuff, *and the programs you want*?

It doesn't. No backup software that I know of works that way. If you've accumulated a bunch of spyware and clutter then back it up, that's what you'll have after a restore too.

spyware and clutter are best handled through other means.

>Problem is, the same keys couldn't be used for something else.

you mean too many different *types* of keys/files are created in different places ?

Kinda, I mean there is no set policy that defines what program is going to use what registry keys. Everyone will share the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall key, but after that it's going to be completely different for every app.

>Office for instance is going to be making COM, Class, OLE, registrations just to name a few.

yet these are all accessible and harnessed somehow (there is some connection/thread to all of them somewhere connecting them [these kind of registry keys/components of each program..], including through "Add/Remove Programs" listing?? right?), could they not also be identified, and then saved?

See notes about Winstall above.

I don't mean to keep shooting holes in your idea with vague answers but...

Anyone that can provide these (kinda time consuming) answers is also going to tell you the same thing:
Stick with traditional backup/restore methods that are tried and true. These include backup software or disk imaging software.

No backup is worth crap if the restore doesn't go perfectly. They key to a perfect restore is simplicity.

Good luck!