Back button in IE is dangerous..

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,002
126
First of all, here are the browser tests somebody asked for. Sorry it's not in English and it's all I could find on such short notice but I think the results are plain as day. Mozilla is certainly not winning any rendering awards. Also note the IE6's rendering engine is better in almost every way to IE 5.x's.

Then again, you really have nothing at all to back up your technical claims.

Guess again. Also I've read/participated in a number of posts in various forums about crusher style rendering speed tests and IE always came out on top with speed and accuracy.

But you said all other browsers are "trash", which gives you zero credibility.

You're right, that probably was a bit over the top. I should have simply said "overall IE is better than the other browsers in terms of accuracy and speed".

it's separate from the page rendering performance issue.

Yes it is which is why I wonder why you even bothered bringing it up in the first place since I was talking about rendering speed, not application launch times or memory use.

There was a test called the "Acid Box Test" or something to that effect that showed how correctly the browser worked.

And I've seen tests of real world pages which contradict what you're saying. Also screaming "it's more standards compliant and it's the coder's fault that the page doesn't work" really doesn't mean dick when my page is loading fine under IE but yours isn't under Mozilla.

How do you know what they are supposed to look like?

Because the poster who starts the thread shows a screenshot of the correct layout and then lets everyone with every browser check both the rendering times and the rendering accuracy. In all of the cases I've seen in the forums scattered over the web IE has always come out on top.

IE just allows for more mistakes where Mozilla is more strict, just because it allows you to be lazy or stupid doesen't mean it's better

It most certainly does mean it's better because it's friendlier for development plus you spend more time reading correctly rendered web pages than you do debugging someone else's code.

making IE's load time a lot less, where as other browsers have to load all their DLLs at launch time making it take longer.

I'll explain it again: I was talking about the rendering speed of the page, not the application load time.

It's a known fact that IE allows sh!t HTML to render without errors.

And that obviously gives it an advantage because it means more pages are likely to render correctly on it than on the other browsers. And as far as users go, that's exactly what they want.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,086
3,850
136
I once saw a huge browser standards compliance matrix somewhere, but unfortunately I don't have it bookmarked and a quick Googling didn't turn up anything specific yet. I do remember that Mozilla was noticeably in the lead, Opera was not bad, and IE clearly lagged behind. Hopefully I can find the web site again.

In the meantime, I have to say I'm skeptical of an obscure test at an Italian web site. For the record, although IE 5.5 isn't too old, the other browsers tested are old versions (Mozilla's version is not listed).

Here's some food for thought regarding IE 5.5's standards compliance from more mainstream sources:

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-243144.html
http://www.webstandards.org/ie55.txt
http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/20011026.html

IE is a good browser (some of us feel it has serious flaws as well), but it doesn't lead in standards compliance, and it has competition in rendering speed as well (from Mozilla and Opera). Just because more web sites are targetted and tested on IE doesn't make make the technical case; it just shows IE is a favored platform. While nobody argues that it's the user experience that counts, your argument here is fundamentally flawed.

Nevertheless, if there's strong evidence out there to back up both your claims, I would be happy to concede the points. And I'm still searching for that compliance matrix I referred to above.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
First of all, here are the browser tests somebody asked for. Sorry it's not in English and it's all I could find on such short notice but I think the results are plain as day. Mozilla is certainly not winning any rendering awards. Also note the IE6's rendering engine is better in almost every way to IE 5.x's.

Those numbers are nice, but 2 things. It would be nice if it was easy to reproduce the tests (I'm not setting up an IIS box with i-bench just for this), because frankly I don't see anywhere near the performance they do with Mozilla. The start time takes a few seconds (maybe 3 at the most) if I don't use the preloader but page loads are nearly instantaneous.

Guess again. Also I've read/participated in a number of posts in various forums about crusher style rendering speed tests and IE always came out on top with speed and accuracy.

Isn't it funny how benchmarks always use data that never looks anything like what real-world activities are. How many websites have anything along the lines of the crusher-type tests, or the ones with tables that are thousands by thousands? I could give a sh!t if IE renders them faster, I'll never run into one.

And I've seen tests of real world pages which contradict what you're saying. Also screaming "it's more standards compliant and it's the coder's fault that the page doesn't work" really doesn't mean dick when my page is loading fine under IE but yours isn't under Mozilla.

If you f*ck up the page by leaving out closing tags or illegal values IE just ignores it or uses it's defaults, just because Mozilla doesn't cater to people who can't type (or can't read to figure out what's legal) doesn't mean it's bad.

Standards are written for a reason, if those people can't understand them they shouldn't be designing web pages.



 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,545
1,707
126


<<

There was a test called the "Acid Box Test" or something to that effect that showed how correctly the browser worked.

And I've seen tests of real world pages which contradict what you're saying. Also screaming "it's more standards compliant and it's the coder's fault that the page doesn't work" really doesn't mean dick when my page is loading fine under IE but yours isn't under Mozilla.
>>



How did you get all of that from that one sentence?



<<
How do you know what they are supposed to look like?

Because the poster who starts the thread shows a screenshot of the correct layout and then lets everyone with every browser check both the rendering times and the rendering accuracy. In all of the cases I've seen in the forums scattered over the web IE has always come out on top.
>>



But if the original screenshot was taken with browser "X" it will look exactly the same when you view it with browser "X".



<<
IE just allows for more mistakes where Mozilla is more strict, just because it allows you to be lazy or stupid doesen't mean it's better

It most certainly does mean it's better because it's friendlier for development plus you spend more time reading correctly rendered web pages than you do debugging someone else's code.
>>



If one is a web site "developer", one should be able to follow the simple HTML 4.0 guidelines (Or XHTML 1 and CSS2). It's like speaking broken english.



<<
It's a known fact that IE allows sh!t HTML to render without errors.

And that obviously gives it an advantage because it means more pages are likely to render correctly on it than on the other browsers. And as far as users go, that's exactly what they want.
>>



This is true.
 

Crackabot

Senior member
Dec 14, 2001
282
0
0
I Love Opera as a browser, I used it for a long time, and would love to try Mozilla since I keep hearing how good it is, but I have one problem, I run Active Desktop, with an HTML page for the background with embedded links...Hotspots, to my favorite sites, and no matter what I do I can't get them to open in anything other than IE (is active desktop part of IE?) I even went so far as to replace every reference of IE in my registry with Opera.exe.... the links still open in IE And yes I had Opera as my default browser.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
and no matter what I do I can't get them to open in anything other than IE (is active desktop part of IE?)

IE is part of active desktop, more accurately IE is active desktop because it's just an embedded IE window to render what you put there.
 

NicColt

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2000
4,362
0
71
May 1, 2002 10:25 am PT
A SECURITY HOLE in the Netscape Communications Navigator and Mozilla Web browsers could allow an attacker to view documents on a user's PC.

"We expect to have a resolution in the near future," he said.

(translation: we should have a new version out sometimes in late July)

The vulnerability affects the XMLHttpRequest component of both Navigator and Mozilla, which is used primarily to retrieve XML documents from Web servers, GreyMagic said. An attacker could exploit the vulnerability by sending the Web browsers to a Web site that included hostile code, which would then allow the attacker to view documents on a user's hard drive, the group said.

>code because MS' programmers have no idea how to program with security in mind.

LOL are you saying that Mozilla's code is perfect, I don't think so.

Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser was also vulnerable to a less serious version of the same attack, which Microsoft patched in February
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Are you really this sad? That you're going to revive this dead thread everytime a security hole is found in Mozilla?

I never said Mozilla was perfect, I said I trust them more than I do MS; I still do and nothing you post will change that.