Question B550 chipset, so AMD joins the dark side after all.

[Shivansps]

I just read the article...

So let me get this straight, this chipset is coming out like a year later, they did not even bother to add CPU PCI-E 4.0 uplink support or to increase the number of sata ports that is ALREADY a problem on every 6 sata B450 motherboard (NVME x4 disables the 2 SOC Sata, thus 6 sata B450 mbs losses 2 sata if NVME is used), and they even dare to futher reduce backguard compatibility?

I was not expecting for the PCI-E lanes FROM the chipset to be 4.0, but only USB 3.2 G2, no more satas, CPU link still 3.0 and the PCI-E lanes 3.0 is beyond disappointing.

 

[Makaveli]

I was talking about the DiY market but even in the case of prebuilts, Best Buy and many local shops aren't going to help you upgrade the computer for free, so there's that. But what about all the computers purchased from online only stores or places like Walmart that don't have repair teams?

Ya they certainly won't do that for free Geek squad or any external support will charge you money for it.

And anyone buying a computer from walmart to begin with is up a creek without a paddle.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The most important thing it was eventually fixed.

Was it? It takes man hours and money to fix those problems. Pinnacle Ridge had nowhere near as many UEFI problems. Summit Ridge had a comparatively smooth launch except for the suicidal C6H boards. My x370 Taichi was a rock (rather than a brick).

 

[chrisjames61]

It took over three months to get the majority of 300-series and 400-series boards running Matisse properly without issue. It took maybe another 1-2 months to get them all updated to 1.0.0.3ABBA or later. And 1.0.0.3ABBA was the first truly "good" AGESA version for Matisse. Not to speak of the numerous boards that had to hide features or cut basic support for things like a mouse in the UEFI. And the weird boost/voltage behavior when running Matisse on some older boards.

I have a MSI X370 Gaming Titanium. The last BIOS update is just a black and white bare bones BIOS and a lot of stuff was stripped out too. I also have a CHVI Hero. The latest BIOS revision all the Stilt's memory presets disappeared. I also have a X370 Tai Chi and some features are gone iirc. I have three B450 ITX boards. One each from Gigabyte, MSI and ASUS. I figure the latest generation of cpu's are fast enough. No real need to risk anything for even a 15% faster cpu.

 

[chrisjames61]

The board partners will be thrilled with this BIOS, they cannot sell a single B450 mobo claiming on the BOX that its ZEN 3 ready

I don't think many people will be buying B450 boards from here on out. Unless they are people who don't plan on upgrading to ZEN 3. Anyway. Many tech sites are saying the are close to EOL.

 

[AtenRa]

I don't think many people will be buying B450 boards from here on out. Unless they are people who don't plan on upgrading to ZEN 3. Anyway. Many tech sites are saying the are close to EOL.

B450 is not close to EOL, its the entry level Chipset (Sub $99) with B550 as the midle-level (from $100) and X570 the high-end

 

[YAYgee]

B450 is not close to EOL, its the entry level Chipset (Sub $99) with B550 as the midle-level (from $100) and X570 the high-end

A520 to be launched in September.

 

[chrisjames61]

B450 is not close to EOL, its the entry level Chipset (Sub $99) with B550 as the midle-level (from $100) and X570 the high-end

I have to disagree with you. How can any chipset that until a yesterday had no support for newly arriving cpu's and now has only purported "beta" bios support for the newly arriving processors not be near EOL? Or any kind of long term solution?

 

[AtenRa]

I have to disagree with you. How can any chipset that until a yesterday had no support for newly arriving cpu's and now has only purported "beta" bios support for the newly arriving processors not be near EOL? Or any kind of long term solution?

EOL means its production comes to an end, it has nothing to do with future CPU support.

 

[AtenRa]

A520 to be launched in September.

Yes my bad, I was talking about OC meanstream chipsets not A300/400/500 series

 

[chrisjames61]

EOL means its production comes to an end, it has nothing to do with future CPU support.

You said that the B450 was the budget chipset, B550 mainstream and X570 high end? How can that be if the the other two solutions actually have support for the most current cpu's but the so called "budget" wasn't going to till yesterday? Not to mention that it is "unofficial" support. Hardly seems like a viable solution for the low end.

 

[Stuka87]

Something still doesn't make sense to me. x570 boards often have 16mb bios and they already supported Zen+ through Zen2 and were definitely going to get Zen3. And people have at least gotten them to boot with even Zen1.

If that is the case...then it implies 16mb is enough space for all the cpu generations. So why is a bios that supports all impossible on 400 series?

X570 boards do not support early AM4 CPU's though. They just shifted the window with them. From what I have read, the BIOS "fix" for the B450 will be a BIOS that supports Zen 3, but drops support for older AM4 processors. And it will be up to the board maker to actually do this.

 

[DrMrLordX]

X570 boards do not support early AM4 CPU's though.

I used to think that was true, but users here have found microcode support for Summit Ridge on at least a few x570s despite those being officially unsupported CPUs. Which is weird.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Not sure if someone showcased 8x/4x/4x + x4 on AM4 before.

My Ryzen R5 3600 on Asus B450-F ROG STRIX, Appears to be doing x8/x4/x4 + x4 + chipset link.

 

[Shivansps]

Was it? It takes man hours and money to fix those problems. Pinnacle Ridge had nowhere near as many UEFI problems. Summit Ridge had a comparatively smooth launch except for the suicidal C6H boards. My x370 Taichi was a rock (rather than a brick).

if the board is not EOL i dont see the problem, thats what we all paid for after all... 300 boards are now EOL so i would only expect beta bios if any. But 400 series is not, so they need to provide at least a basic, fully working support.

I used to think that was true, but users here have found microcode support for Summit Ridge on at least a few x570s despite those being officially unsupported CPUs. Which is weird.

AMD added support on Agesa 1.0.0.4... probably due to OEM request. If B550 does not have this since day 1 is going to be close.


My question would be if B550 already comes with Renoir and Zen 3 microcode. And considering that B550 is more premium that what B450 was, if they are going to allow more stuff into A520... like OC.

 

[DrMrLordX]

if the board is not EOL i dont see the problem

Then sorry, but you are blind.

Delays, expenses, broken implementations of CPU support, people flashing the wrong UEFI and then getting zero support because it's a beta. You think the customer paid for that level of support, but the truth is that when someone bought a $100 motherboard, it probably did not cover the expenses involved in supporting all these chips! OEMs have been feeding off Intel for years, and now they can't do that in the DiY sector since AMD is dominating sales.

Can you get Chaintech, DFI, Foxconn, PC Chips, or Abit-brand motherboards anymore? No? There are reasons for that.

 

[chrisjames61]

Then sorry, but you are blind.

Delays, expenses, broken implementations of CPU support, people flashing the wrong UEFI and then getting zero support because it's a beta. You think the customer paid for that level of support, but the truth is that when someone bought a $100 motherboard, it probably did not cover the expenses involved in supporting all these chips! OEMs have been feeding off Intel for years, and now they can't do that in the DiY sector since AMD is dominating sales.

Can you get Chaintech, DFI, Foxconn, PC Chips, or Abit-brand motherboards anymore? No? There are reasons for that.

This is kind of off topic but I remember about a year or so back that Supermicro was going to start to make AM4 enthusiast boards?

 

[Shivansps]

Then sorry, but you are blind.

Delays, expenses, broken implementations of CPU support, people flashing the wrong UEFI and then getting zero support because it's a beta. You think the customer paid for that level of support, but the truth is that when someone bought a $100 motherboard, it probably did not cover the expenses involved in supporting all these chips! OEMs have been feeding off Intel for years, and now they can't do that in the DiY sector since AMD is dominating sales.

Can you get Chaintech, DFI, Foxconn, PC Chips, or Abit-brand motherboards anymore? No? There are reasons for that.

When a $100 board (or any board) does not get any future CPU support it is because is EOL, this date is pre-defined from the start with your scenario in mind. There is not a single 400 board that is EOL, bring me a single example, you are unlikely to find one. This is in part due to B550 being delayed, but thats not the customers fault. So like it not, they are kinda forced to do it.

As a example i can give you Carrizo APU on FM2... Premium A88 boards never got support, because they were EOL, yet, some cheap ass A68 did, price does not really matters, it matters if is EOL or not. Dont be suprised if A320 ends up getting better support than all other 300 series boards.

And look, no warranty covers damages from beta bios, if someone download and flash a beta bios that has the proper warnings, thats no OEM problem. Still brands like Gigabyte will fix it for you as long you still have warranty, since bios flash is included in the "friendly" support.

At any rate, everything you said only applies to 300 series boards, that are unlikely to get Zen 3/Renoir support outside some risky beta bios.


Anyway, you want to know what a REAL support nightmare is? Cutting cpus off in the same socket.
Intel shenanigans with 6th/7th/8th/9th on 1151 socket was a NIGHTMARE, for us, the people that actually have to sell those, even today the averange joe still do stuff like buying a 9100 for a H110...

Cutting 300/400 off Zen 3/Renoir is... its going to be a dissaster, but at least something i can control with bios and a little testing now. B550 whout old Ryzen support, im going to have a ton of returned motherboards if no support is given. OEMs work closely to us, Gigabyte and Asus, mainly, and they do understand that. And i dont think it is that different in the rest of the world.
Look, if you want to do that, change the socket, please. It is still a mess, but a cleaner one.

 

[DrMrLordX]

When a $100 board (or any board) does not get any future CPU support it is because is EOL

Or because the company is dragging their feet since they aren't making any additional money supporting the board. If you think boards that are "not EoL" have always gotten proper support, you're nuts. There will be problems. Some B350, X370, B450, and X470 boards still have shaky support when running a AGESA 1.0.0.4 UEFI. Missing features, etc.

@chrisjames61

I haven't seen anything like that, but it might have gotten into the planning stages.

 

[blckgrffn]

Side story on my personal fail due to chipset support and sockets staying the same:

@Shivansps

I walked out of a Microcenter with a Intel 360 chipset board and a Intel Pentium Processor, matching socket. Didn't think that much of it. I mean, they are all some flavor Skylake, you know?

B360M DS3H Gigabyte board and Intel G4560 CPU. Great deal at $104 our the door. Combo discount!

Oh wait. That CPU is... too old. And I was a smart guy who waited about 35 days to test this out and realize what an idiot I was. I mean, I felt burned. I should *know better* yet I had still done this.

Solution?

Walk back in and get a B250 board and a freaking i3-8100 (combo discount!) and double down on my dumb.

I sold the G4560/B250 combo in a complete PC to a good friend (with an RX460) for $200 because I just wanted my shame out of the house

 

[Shivansps]

Or because the company is dragging their feet since they aren't making any additional money supporting the board. If you think boards that are "not EoL" have always gotten proper support, you're nuts. There will be problems. Some B350, X370, B450, and X470 boards still have shaky support when running a AGESA 1.0.0.4 UEFI. Missing features, etc.

With proper support i meant: it works, it does not blue screen, it does not kill something over time.
Missing features and early issues are always expected on older stuff.

I walked out of a Microcenter with a Intel 360 chipset board and a Intel Pentium Processor, matching socket. Didn't think that much of it. I mean, they are all some flavor Skylake, you know?

B360M DS3H Gigabyte board and Intel G4560 CPU. Great deal at $104 our the door. Combo discount!

Oh wait. That CPU is... too old. And I was a smart guy who waited about 35 days to test this out and realize what an idiot I was. I mean, I felt burned. I should *know better* yet I had still done this.

Solution?

Walk back in and get a B250 board and a freaking i3-8100 (combo discount!) and double down on my dumb.

I sold the G4560/B250 combo in a complete PC to a good friend (with an RX460) for $200 because I just wanted my shame out of the house

HA! Microcenter did that? What a fail, we dont have issues with stuff sold on the physical store, part of my job is making sure that does not happens.
But problems arise from online stores, when you have like 200 motherboards/cpus returned in a month, after expending another month being lost in the logistical chain somewhere, returning to the deposit damaged... it does become a issue if you arent Amazon.

 

[blckgrffn]

@Shivansps

Yeah... to be fair, with the second combo, the online pickup clerk was like "Um, I think that CPU and board combo might not work" and he held my order back from the counter - I assured him that I had a the correct puzzle pieces at home to make each of them work and he dubiously allowed me to check out.

I guess my point was that if people who read and comment in Motherboard threads on PC forums get this stuff mixed up it's fair to think the average consumer is going to be confused at times as well.

I think it will be interesting to see if AMD somehow draws a fine line between "3000 series CPUs" and "3000 series CPUs with graphics and 3000 series CPUs without graphics" because so far their communications haven't been quite that nuanced. We'll see.

 

[wahdangun]

Side story on my personal fail due to chipset support and sockets staying the same:

@Shivansps

I walked out of a Microcenter with a Intel 360 chipset board and a Intel Pentium Processor, matching socket. Didn't think that much of it. I mean, they are all some flavor Skylake, you know?

B360M DS3H Gigabyte board and Intel G4560 CPU. Great deal at $104 our the door. Combo discount!

Oh wait. That CPU is... too old. And I was a smart guy who waited about 35 days to test this out and realize what an idiot I was. I mean, I felt burned. I should *know better* yet I had still done this.

Solution?

Walk back in and get a B250 board and a freaking i3-8100 (combo discount!) and double down on my dumb.

I sold the G4560/B250 combo in a complete PC to a good friend (with an RX460) for $200 because I just wanted my shame out of the house

Yeah, i have that moment when intel still use LGA 775.

 

[chrisjames61]

Yes my bad, I was talking about OC meanstream chipsets not A300/400/500 series

B550 is obviously the replacement for B450 as X570 was for X470 and A520 for A320. I don't know what could make it much clearer.

 

[DrMrLordX]

With proper support i meant: it works, it does not blue screen, it does not kill something over time.

Glad you aren't a mobo OEM.

 

[Shivansps]

Glad you aren't a mobo OEM.

Well if you have a 3 year old board you cant really ask for more than that...

EDIT:
also, competition plays a role here, if one brand does X work, it tends to push all other brands to do so as well.