Question B550 chipset, so AMD joins the dark side after all.

[Shivansps]

I just read the article...

So let me get this straight, this chipset is coming out like a year later, they did not even bother to add CPU PCI-E 4.0 uplink support or to increase the number of sata ports that is ALREADY a problem on every 6 sata B450 motherboard (NVME x4 disables the 2 SOC Sata, thus 6 sata B450 mbs losses 2 sata if NVME is used), and they even dare to futher reduce backguard compatibility?

I was not expecting for the PCI-E lanes FROM the chipset to be 4.0, but only USB 3.2 G2, no more satas, CPU link still 3.0 and the PCI-E lanes 3.0 is beyond disappointing.

 

[Gideon]

Think of it this way: what was the purpose of the B450 MAX motherboards from MSI if all their B450 motherboards already supported Ryzen 3000 and future support was going to end with Zen 2 anyway? Why go through the hassle of making and marketing new motherboard SKUs if old ones were fine and the feature difference was almost non-existent except for the BIOS chip size?

Answer? Because they knew consumers were looking for value boards to pair with Zen 2, and X570 boards with more expensive components simply did not cut it. And they knew some of them were worried about future support, so they made the BIOS bigger and marketed that as competitive advantage. Both MSI and press outlets literally told their customers B450 MAX boards would support future AMD generations.

Not only that:
1. MSI outright marketed the boards as Zen 3 compatible. According to HWUB they were also caught off-guard by AMD not providing the AGESA.
2. As you mentioned, the MAX boards were released after x570 (with the claims above) as the de-facto value chipset for Zen 3.
3. The MAX boards also have exatly the same VRMs and BIOS ROM chips as their entry x570 boards (so no BIOS size limits that x570 also wouldn't have).

I agree that Reddit's reaction is ridiculous, but it's totally fair to point out that AMD could have very easily avoided all this:

1. AMD could have just communicated this waaay fact sooner and all of this fuss would have been avoided.There is no reason why they couldn't do it on x570 launch. The latest it should have done was, when mobo-partners started releasing upgraded B450 claiming to support all future AM4 processors.
2. Releasing B550 would also have avoided this problem. After al It's released 9 months after Zen 2 and only 4-6 months before Zen 3.

As it stands now at least 3 of my friends have bought B450 MAX boards the last of which was bought in the very end of April.

The first has it with a used 1700X he got for free, with the intent to upgrade to Zen 3 for cheap in 2021-2022.
The second and third boguht 3600/3600X and planning to upgrade their GPU this year (when Cyberpunk comes) and their CPU in 2021 or 2022 with the best gaming AM4 CPU available on the board at that time. To one of them the chipset fan was something they really hated (and B450 seemed like a perfect way to avoid that).

Now obvioulsy it isn't a huge dealbreaker, they can just buy a new mobo and sell the CPU with the old one, but it's just so stupid that AMD could have avoided all of this confusion with just releasing one slide earlier.

 

[piokos]

I'm not going to point the finger, but some people:
a) criticize Intel for changing the socket often
AND
b) mock Intel's gen-to-gen Skylake performance crawl
AND
c) now say that "but Zen3 will be a minor upgrade over Zen2 so it isn't a big issue"

This makes no sense.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Think of it this way: what was the purpose of the B450 MAX motherboards from MSI if all their B450 motherboards already supported Ryzen 3000 and future support was going to end with Zen 2 anyway?

Existing B450 boards needed a UEFI update to support Matisse. If you didn't have an older chip handy to boot the board and if the board didn't support USB flashback, you were basically screwed when buying a B450 new for Matisse. The MAX boards all had updated UEFI out of the gate that, at a minimum, supported Matisse (albeit sometimes not very well). The larger ROM also guaranteed that the MAX boards didn't have to make compromises in the UEFI to support everything. That was the #1 reason why I encouraged anyone to look at those products (to the extent that I ever did).

That being said, I am a little surprised that Zen3 won't be supported in those boards, or X470. What's so different about Zen3 that this has to happen?

 

[chrisjames61]

OEMs still have a ton of product in their distribution channels that they need to clear. Heck, many are still producing a ton of 4xx boards each month and AMD.

Than why are so many boards out of stock everywhere?

 

[piokos]

Than why are so many boards out of stock everywhere?

He probably meant large OEMs (Dell, Lenovo, HP).
They have large inventories of PCs and probably also a lot of chipsets.

OEMs making DIY motherboards (ASUS, MSI etc) are relatively tiny and buy parts in smaller batches.

 

[chrisjames61]

He probably meant large OEMs (Dell, Lenovo, HP).
They have large inventories of PCs and probably also a lot of chipsets.

OEMs making DIY motherboards (ASUS, MSI etc) are relatively tiny and buy parts in smaller batches.

Pretty sure he isn't talking about the big OEM computer manufacturers and that he talking about the mobo vendors.

 

[JustMe21]

Than why are so many boards out of stock everywhere?

Coronavirus. Since motherboards come from China and shipping is ramping back up, it takes time time for things to get back into stock. I just hope the disruption of the current motherboard supply doesn't push the B550 board releases. I also hope the B450 and X470 chipsets will at least support the 4000 series APUs since they are still Zen 2.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Coronavirus. Since motherboards come from China and shipping is ramping back up, it takes time time for things to get back into stock.

Yeah all the supply chains are not working ideally now basically everywhere.
I’ve taken up painting some miniatures and oddball stuff like that are simply not being produced and the reserves are selling out.

 

[Excelsior]

I'm not going to point the finger, but some people:
a) criticize Intel for changing the socket often
AND
b) mock Intel's gen-to-gen Skylake performance crawl
AND
c) now say that "but Zen3 will be a minor upgrade over Zen2 so it isn't a big issue"

This makes no sense.

Just curious, who is suggesting C)? Everything I've seen rumour-wise indicates Zen3 will be a meaningful/signifcant upgrade in performance.

 

[chrisjames61]

Coronavirus. Since motherboards come from China and shipping is ramping back up, it takes time time for things to get back into stock. I just hope the disruption of the current motherboard supply doesn't push the B550 board releases. I also hope the B450 and X470 chipsets will at least support the 4000 series APUs since they are still Zen 2.

I can't believe how high the prices on computer stuff has rocketed on eBay. Even for old AMD FX cpu's, psu's, ssd's, cases. I am not talking about asking prices I am talking about actual prices items have sold for. An FX 8320 has been selling for a higher price than an R5 3600. Crazy.

 

[coercitiv]

An FX 8320 has been selling for a higher price than an R5 3600. Crazy.

This is what happens when they cut chipset support for next gen CPUs.

 

[jpiniero]

I can't believe how high the prices on computer stuff has rocketed on eBay. Even for old AMD FX cpu's, psu's, ssd's, cases. I am not talking about asking prices I am talking about actual prices items have sold for. An FX 8320 has been selling for a higher price than an R5 3600. Crazy.

It's Ebay, it's probally people bidding on their own products.

 

[piokos]

It's Ebay, it's probally people bidding on their own products.

Very unlikely. There are still many AM3 systems running.

AM3 CPUs are disappearing from retail. I'm not sure if AMD still makes them (anyone knows how to check this on their website?).
Of course they'll make them to order... buy you have to order a lot.

I see some FX CPUs on Amazon, but where I live (Poland) the only pre-AM4 chips available are a handful of FM2+ SoCs.
Which is quite shocking considering this was still AMD's main offer 3.5 years ago. Very short support.
Intel still makes chips for LGA1155.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Very unlikely. There are still many AM3 systems running.

AM3 CPUs are disappearing from retail. I'm not sure if AMD still makes them (anyone knows how to check this on their website?).
Of course they'll make them to order... buy you have to order a lot.

I see some FX CPUs on Amazon, but where I live (Poland) the only pre-AM4 chips available are a handful of FM2+ SoCs.
Which is quite shocking considering this was still AMD's main offer 3.5 years ago. Very short support.
Intel still makes chips for LGA1155.

yeah I still have a crappy FX6300 chip & motherboard. I checked combo seem to sell around $40 which to me isn’t that much money. I’m not an AT Baller either.

 

[chrisjames61]

yeah I still have a crappy FX6300 chip & motherboard. I checked combo seem to sell around $40 which to me isn’t that much money. I’m not an AT Baller either.

6300's are still pretty cheap.

 

[chrisjames61]

It's Ebay, it's probally people bidding on their own products.

Bidding and buying them? Not likely. Oh, and it is "eBay" lol!

 

[jpiniero]

Bidding and buying them? Not likely. Oh, and it is "eBay" lol!

They make fake bids hoping to get someone to bite. If nobody does, they just list it again.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Oh, and it is "eBay" lol!

I like buying nVidia cards on eBay to play games from InXile.

 

[piokos]

6300's are still pretty cheap.

2 sellers on Amazon:

Amazon.com: AMD FX-Series FX-6300 FX6300 Desktop CPU Socket AM3 938 pin FD6300WMW6KHK FD6300WMHKBOX 3.5GHz 8MB 6 cores: Computers & Accessories

Buy AMD FX-Series FX-6300 FX6300 Desktop CPU Socket AM3 938 pin FD6300WMW6KHK FD6300WMHKBOX 3.5GHz 8MB 6 cores: CPU Processors - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

$70 and $100, CPU only, used

FX6300 launched at $120.
In early 2017 it costed around $60 (box, with cooler).

 

[CentroX]

My problem is that it sucks to upgrade motherboard considering how good the CH6 is. It is not like CH8 is any better in games. Maybe 1-2 fps.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@CentroX

C8H only really has better VRMs and PCIe 4.0 going for it. With Matisse being the way it is, you didn't even need better VRMs it turns out. I did not expect current levels to be so low (or voltages to be so high) so I guess that's how AMD did it.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Its a dick move from AMD, but at least to me I don't really care since I won't be upgrading from my 3600 until DDR5 platforms arrive. Even in the rare event if I did paying $100 for a B550 is chump change to me.

 

[Hitman928]

New GN video on the topic with additional research. One thing they found is that pre Zen2 CPUs from AMD can't even address 32 MB ROM chips as they have a 16 MB address limitation. There's ways around it by partitioning the 32 MB ROM into two spaces but it's easier said than done and just adds the the technical challenge of supporting all AM4 CPUs.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

New GN video on the topic with additional research. One thing they found is that pre Zen2 CPUs from AMD can't even address 32 MB ROM chips as they have a 16 MB address limitation. There's ways around it by partitioning the 32 MB ROM into two spaces but it's easier said than done and just adds the the technical challenge of supporting all AM4 CPUs.

Why hell are bios storage chips so small? Can’t possibly be a cost thing since storage has been so cheap for so long. Why is there such a small limit?

 

[Hitman928]

Why hell are bios storage chips so small? Can’t possibly be a cost thing since storage has been so cheap for so long. Why is there such a small limit?

According to one of their videos, 16 MB PROM is used in a lot of places (netowrking, IoT, etc.) and is a high volume product essentially. 32 MB PROM is a more niche product and carries a substantially higher price. I don't know the validity of this but that is what GN found in their research.