Question B550 chipset, so AMD joins the dark side after all.

[Shivansps]

I just read the article...

So let me get this straight, this chipset is coming out like a year later, they did not even bother to add CPU PCI-E 4.0 uplink support or to increase the number of sata ports that is ALREADY a problem on every 6 sata B450 motherboard (NVME x4 disables the 2 SOC Sata, thus 6 sata B450 mbs losses 2 sata if NVME is used), and they even dare to futher reduce backguard compatibility?

I was not expecting for the PCI-E lanes FROM the chipset to be 4.0, but only USB 3.2 G2, no more satas, CPU link still 3.0 and the PCI-E lanes 3.0 is beyond disappointing.

 

[Hitman928]

This is exactly what I was expecting, not sure why you were expecting more. If you want the additional features, pay for the x570 chipset. . .

 

[SPBHM]

this following them blocking motherboard vendors that wanted to enable PCIE 4.0 on older boards/chipset during Ryzen 3000's launch which was technically possible is not a good look,
but not completely unexpected

still I would assume B550 is actually new silicon, a new revision!?

 

[blckgrffn]

The upgrades are PCIe 4 to the main graphics slot and an NVME slot, and an upgrade to PCIe 3 for everything else... haha, yay? I guess this might be nice for the long term, not a ton of benefits today.

Honestly, I build out a lot computers these days with zero sata connections in use. No DVD drives. Sometimes I add used larger SATA SSD for some more storage, but I don't find four ports constricting at all.

I thought the more surprising thing was that AMD wasn't saying current APUs were really going to be supported since they are on older CPU arch. It seems odd that the new APUs aren't ready but the old ones aren't guaranteed to work?

 

[Markfw]

The upgrades are PCIe 4 to the main graphics slot and an NVME slot, and an upgrade to PCIe 3 for everything else...

Honestly, I build out a lot computers these days with zero sata connections in use. No DVD drives. Sometimes I add used larger SATA SSD for some more storage, but I don't find four ports constricting at all.

Exactly. Its all NVME drives, and if I need a CD or DVD, I use an external drive. Only my one main PC has a optical drive, and that is to burn ISO's of linux for the most part. I could probably learn to to do it with a USB stick...

 

[Hitman928]

The upgrades are PCIe 4 to the main graphics slot and an NVME slot, and an upgrade to PCIe 3 for everything else... haha, yay? I guess this might be nice for the long term, not a ton of benefits today.

Honestly, I build out a lot computers these days with zero sata connections in use. No DVD drives. Sometimes I add used larger SATA SSD for some more storage, but I don't find four ports constricting at all.

I thought the more surprising thing was that AMD wasn't saying current APUs were really going to be supported since they are on older CPU arch. It seems odd that the new APUs aren't ready but the old ones aren't guaranteed to work?

I guess, what would be the point? You would be buying a more expensive motherboard to run an older CPU/APU that can't make use of any of the updated IO that makes it more expensive. B450 boards aren't EOL as far as I know so there should be plenty of supply if you want to go with a Zen/Zen+ processor.

 

[Shivansps]

The upgrades are PCIe 4 to the main graphics slot and an NVME slot, and an upgrade to PCIe 3 for everything else... haha, yay? I guess this might be nice for the long term, not a ton of benefits today.

Honestly, I build out a lot computers these days with zero sata connections in use. No DVD drives. Sometimes I add used larger SATA SSD for some more storage, but I don't find four ports constricting at all.

I thought the more surprising thing was that AMD wasn't saying current APUs were really going to be supported since they are on older CPU arch. It seems odd that the new APUs aren't ready but the old ones aren't guaranteed to work?

This is more of a personal thing but i have a 1TB NVME as main drive work, programs and s.o, SATA SSDs for games, and HDDs in RAID 1 for storage, and safe backup, i had to buy a PCI-E sata card after adding the NVME.
Nevertheless, the fact remains that any B board that comes with more than 4 SATA, two ports are in conflict with the NVME.

4 satas is entry level, A320/H310 entry level.

The problem is that, the point was PCI-E 4.0 and the chipset still uses CPU 3.0 links, yeah we are now going to be able to use the PCI-E 4.0 from the CPU for the GPU and NVME, but B550 was not needed for that, any OEM could just launch a B450 motherboard revision with that, IF there ever was a technnical issue involved with older boards...
They just outright blocked OEMs from doing motherboard revisions for this... and this is the same old B450 chipset with USB 3.2 and PCI-E x1 3.0 ports... at a higher price, you can be sure.

 

[Shivansps]

I guess, what would be the point? You would be buying a more expensive motherboard to run an older CPU/APU that can't make use of any of the updated IO that makes it more expensive. B450 boards aren't EOL as far as I know so there should be plenty of supply if you want to go with a Zen/Zen+ processor.

There is no way to justify to have less compatibility than x570, just stop right there.

 

[Hitman928]

There is no way to justify to have less compatibility than x570, just stop right there.

Assuming the compatability was the same. If I buy a 2600 and am looking for a motherboard. I can buy a B450 or a B550 for more money and zero benefit. Make much sense to you?

 

[blckgrffn]

Assuming the compatability was the same. If I buy a 2600 and am looking for a motherboard. I can buy a B450 or a B550 for more money and zero benefit. Make much sense to you?

I think the issue is if I buy a Ryzen "3"400 APU and find out it doesn't work in my new motherboard but a Ryzen 3300x and a Ryzen 3600 do work.

I mean that isn't confusing at all.

That chart from AMD says this is exactly the situation they are in. Maybe they shouldn't have branded their APUs like that.

With regards to backup/large storage - I moved all to either a cheap synology for docs and the like and big (10+ TB) external drives for media. Having been burned with malware (one of the worst weeks of my personal IT life, and I am someone who "knows better"), I have to make cloud and cold copies of anything I am serious about keeping, and this makes internal PC RAID arrays something I've done away with.

I've got a couple really nice hardware raid adapters in a drawer somewhere...

 

[Hitman928]

I think the issue is if I buy a Ryzen "3"400 APU and find out it doesn't work in my new motherboard but a Ryzen 3300x and a Ryzen 3600 do work.

I mean that isn't confusing at all.

That chart from AMD says this is exactly the situation they are in. Maybe they shouldn't have branded their APUs like that.

With regards to backup/large storage - I moved all to either a cheap synology for docs and the like and big (10+ TB) external drives for media. Having been burned with malware (one of the worst weeks of my personal IT life, and I am someone who "knows better"), I have to make cloud and cold copies of anything I am serious about keeping, and this makes internal PC RAID arrays something I've done away with.

I've got a couple really nice hardware raid adapters in a drawer somewhere...

I agree it can be confusing, but that's really a marketing thing and a separate issue.

 

[blckgrffn]

I agree it can be confusing, but that's really a marketing thing and a separate issue.

I'll just continue to disagree AMD has been very kind to us in allowing a given socket to be used to so long and with so much flexibility.

You say there is no benefit to pairing a 1600 AF and a b550? I would pay more knowing that I could also have the option, in a handful of years, of dropping in a later Ryzen CPU. This is going to be even more reliable than trusting a B450 board to get the same support.

For the normal person, going to the store, be it online or in person, and being able to reliably take home a new (and latest, in terms of APUs) CPU and a new motherboard of the same socket implies strongly they will work. There is also utility in that. (how many threads have their been on getting a CPU to flash a new in box board that doesn't support the latest Ryzens? On deal threads I follow that is a constant refrain on all x470 based motherboard sales, for example).

If these are really B450 boards with different firmware (?) then it seems like OEMs and retailers would be happy to phase out B450 ASAP to consolidate manufacturing, logistics and support. Again, there is utility in that.

It's a head scratcher for me unless the new APUs are imminent and we see the 3200/3400 processors get a quick hook.

 

[UsandThem]

so AMD joins the dark side after all.

Error 404. Dark side not found.

Not saying it's the case for every person in the world, I rarely use any SATA ports anymore, and even then it's one of them. If a person really needs more than that, they have more options for not much more.

 

[SpaceBeer]

This is more of a personal thing but i have a 1TB NVME as main drive work, programs and s.o, SATA SSDs for games, and HDDs in RAID 1 for storage, and safe backup, i had to buy a PCI-E sata card after adding the NVME.
Nevertheless, the fact remains that any B board that comes with more than 4 SATA, two ports are in conflict with the NVME.

Raid (1) is not backup If you need more than 4 disks, you are not average user, so you can expect average hardware doesn't suit your needs

 

[Hitman928]

I'll just continue to disagree AMD has been very kind to us in allowing a given socket to be used to so long and with so much flexibility.

You say there is no benefit to pairing a 1600 AF and a b550? I would pay more knowing that I could also have the option, in a handful of years, of dropping in a later Ryzen CPU. This is going to be even more reliable than trusting a B450 board to get the same support.

For the normal person, going to the store, be it online or in person, and being able to reliably take home a new (and latest, in terms of APUs) CPU and a new motherboard of the same socket implies strongly they will work. There is also utility in that. (how many threads have their been on getting a CPU to flash a new in box board that doesn't support the latest Ryzens? On deal threads I follow that is a constant refrain on all x470 based motherboard sales, for example).

If these are really B450 boards with different firmware (?) then it seems like OEMs and retailers would be happy to phase out B450 ASAP to consolidate manufacturing, logistics and support. Again, there is utility in that.

It's a head scratcher for me unless the new APUs are imminent and we see the 3200/3400 processors get a quick hook.

The amount of people who would buy the cheapest CPU possible on a more expensive platform that they can't use the features of, to maybe at some point in the future upgrade to the last CPU generation supported on that platform when another platform with a brand new generation of CPUs is coming right after that has got to be really, really small. I don't see what the plan would be. Spend more now on a super budget build, to not enjoy the features of the platform, to then spend more money later to unlock those features. Either go super budget and wait for Zen4 to get a huge upgrade, or go "all in" now and enjoy all the features and performance to hold you over even longer. Doing this step-up program doesn't make sense at this point in AM4's life cycle. Sure, it would be great if AMD just stayed on the same MB platform for eternity and supported every generation of CPU on it, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I think this makes perfect sense for AMD to do and there are technical as well as business reasons to do it.

 

[scannall]

If the B550 boards supported all lanes of PCIe4 they would be more expensive. Takes more board layers, and more expensive signaling components to work. At that point they wouldn't be budget anymore.

 

[maddie]

I just read the article...

So let me get this straight, this chipset is coming out like a year later, they did not even bother to add CPU PCI-E 4.0 uplink support or to increase the number of sata ports that is ALREADY a problem on every 6 sata B450 motherboard (NVME x4 disables the 2 SOC Sata, thus 6 sata B450 mbs losses 2 sata if NVME is used), and they even dare to futher reduce backguard compatibility?

I was not expecting for the PCI-E lanes FROM the chipset to be 4.0, but only USB 3.2 G2, no more satas, CPU link still 3.0 and the PCI-E lanes 3.0 is beyond disappointing.

According to the 1st slide, Ryzen 3xxx will not work on X370, B350 and A320 boards. Is this true?

 

[amrnuke]

If the B550 boards supported all lanes of PCIe4 they would be more expensive. Takes more board layers, and more expensive signaling components to work. At that point they wouldn't be budget anymore.

Thank you.

 

[Markfw]

According to the 1st slide, Ryzen 3xxx will not work on X370, B350 and A320 boards. Is this true?

Well, something is off. I have an X370 Taichi running an 3900x 100% load 24/7 just fine.

I think what they REALLY man is that x370 will not support 4xxx (3rd gen) Ryzen

 

[HurleyBird]

It may just be "guaranteed" support.

 

[blckgrffn]

The amount of people who would buy the cheapest CPU possible on a more expensive platform that they can't use the features of, to maybe at some point in the future upgrade to the last CPU generation supported on that platform when another platform with a brand new generation of CPUs is coming right after that has got to be really, really small. I don't see what the plan would be. Spend more now on a super budget build, to not enjoy the features of the platform, to then spend more money later to unlock those features. Either go super budget and wait for Zen4 to get a huge upgrade, or go "all in" now and enjoy all the features and performance to hold you over even longer. Doing this step-up program doesn't make sense at this point in AM4's life cycle. Sure, it would be great if AMD just stayed on the same MB platform for eternity and supported every generation of CPU on it, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I think this makes perfect sense for AMD to do and there are technical as well as business reasons to do it.

That still doesn’t address that they are going to sell motherboards with video out ports on them and not officially support any CPUs that have graphics out capability. That’s a little daft.

Of course most/all b550 boards might support the current APUs at launch and then phase out support over time? 🤷‍♂️

Your build philosophy is your own. I don’t use low end components like motherboards other power supplies, but I might use slower CPUs. I’ve been burned enough times - there’s not nearly the variability in reliability across CPUs SKUs as there is across other components.

 

[thigobr]

It's official that support for Ryzen 4xxx on B350/450 and X370/470 will be relegated to the board manufacturer... And I don't think many of them will bother supporting 3year old boards.

I was expecting to be able to update to a 16core Zen3 later this year but it seems I might need a new board as well

 

[rbk123]

It's official that support for Ryzen 4xxx on B350/450 and X370/470 will be relegated to the board manufacturer... And I don't think many of them will bother supporting 3year old boards.

Which then invalidates the claim of AM4 socket support through the 3 generations of Zen. The Intel FB's will love that.

 

[Hitman928]

Which then invalidates the claim that AM4 socket support through the 3 generations of Zen. The Intel FB's will love that.

B550 isn't AM4? Additionally, 3 generations have already been done. Zen, Zen+, Zen2.

 

[Hitman928]

That still doesn’t address that they are going to sell motherboards with video out ports on them and not officially support any CPUs that have graphics out capability. That’s a little daft.

Of course most/all b550 boards might support the current APUs at launch and then phase out support over time? 🤷‍♂️

Your build philosophy is your own. I don’t use low end components like motherboards other power supplies, but I might use slower CPUs. I’ve been burned enough times - there’s not nearly the variability in reliability across CPUs SKUs as there is across other components.

B550 boards haven't actually released yet, I'm pretty sure the next gen desktop APUs will be launching alongside or very shortly after them. B550 boards can still be used for non-APU Zen 2 products.

There's a difference between buying motherboards with low end components and buying motherboards with extra features that you can't use. There are plenty of high quality B450 boards and there are crappy x570 boards. That's not what we're talking about though.