AZ shooting fallout. It isnt the Left or Right, its the Elite vs the Peasants.....

[Blackjack200]

I oppose any law made in the context of this tragedy. Just as I oppose the patriot act. Lot of good that opposition does. You can't even vote for a party that will remove it.

You don't think that our laws should respond to things that happen? I agree that the response should be rational and not emotional, but why wouldn't you use legislation as a tool to fix the problems that something like this uncovers?

 

[Phokus]

It's refreshing that there are a FEW conservatives are honest about the violent sociopaths that make up a significant number of the rightwing:

I'm a conservative, but find this kind of behavior absolutely reprehensible. I recently went to a backyard cookout with a few neighbors (this is an almost 100% 'Republican' area), and was shocked at: A) How fucking idiotic most of them were and B) How often I heard people talking about assassinating the POTUS and other 'liberals/commies'

Arkaign circa 2008/2009

Thank you Arkaign for your refreshing honesty. One of the better ATPN rightwingers

:thumbsup:

 

[Red Dawn]

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_letjukHQwV1qazc74o1_500.jpg

Say what?

He was a Right Wing Commie? How much more insane can you get?

 

[Specop 007]

By that logic our response to 9/11 should have gone no further than tighter airport security and improved intelligence.

And IIRC, Loughner was not a mental health patient.

Well then you dont recall correctly assuming this information is true. Take into account the concerns the college had with him, the reports on file at the LEO office and you have a very easily preventable situation.

Should a mental health record show up on a NICS check? I dont know. But it would have caught Cho as well as this individual.

But at some point we have to face the facts that we live in a dangerous world. You cant legislate away all dangers.

http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/

This is the report that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik has been dreading since the tragic event on Saturday January 8.

The sheriff has been editorializing and politicizing the event since he took the podium to report on the incident. His blaming of radio personalities and bloggers is a pre-emptive strike because Mr. Dupnik knows this tragedy lays at his feet and his office. Six people died on his watch and he could have prevented it. He needs to step up and start apologizing to the families of the victims instead of spinning this event to serve his own political agenda.

Jared Loughner, pronounced by the Sheriff as Lock-ner, saying it was the Polish pronunciation. Of course he meant Scott or Irish but that isn’t the point. The point is he and his office have had previous contact with the alleged assailant in the past and that is how he knows how to pronounce the name.

Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability.

Every victim of his threats previously must also be wondering if this tragedy could have been prevented if they had been more aggressive in pursuing charges against Mr. Loughner. Perhaps with a felony conviction he would never have been able to lawfully by the Glock 9mm Model 19 that he used to strike down the lives of six people and decimate 14 more.

This was not an act of politics. This was an act of a mentally disturbed young man hell bent on getting his 15 minutes of infamy. The Pima County Sheriff’s Department was aware of his violent nature and they failed to act appropriately. This tragedy leads right back to Sherriff Dupnik and all the spin in the world is not going to change that fact.

 

[JulesMaximus]

It's been done before:

http://www.constitution.org/rf/sedition_1798.htm

As far as the Gun Control part: It's already illegal for individuals with criminal and (dangerous) mental records to purchase/own firearms. I would support a strengthening of the means/methods/background checks necessary to make better and more efficient determinations; and also improved enforcement of same. But we should understand that's already against the law.

For the 'High Capacity' ban - We did have one between 1994 and 2004 (10 rounds), which was allowed to lapse. The world didn't end then, and wouldn't if that came back. I would also support this, even if only for the placebo effect.

Except he purchased his gun legally...

 

[Scotteq]

It's been done before:

http://www.constitution.org/rf/sedition_1798.htm







As far as the Gun Control part: It's already illegal for individuals with criminal and (dangerous) mental records to purchase/own firearms. I would support a strengthening of the means/methods/background checks necessary to make better and more efficient determinations; and also improved enforcement of same. But we should understand that's already against the law.

For the 'High Capacity' ban - We did have one between 1994 and 2004 (10 rounds), which was allowed to lapse. The world didn't end then, and wouldn't if that came back. I would also support this, even if only for the placebo effect.

Except he purchased his gun legally...

Highlighted the section of the original post that answers your comment.


Respectfully request a more careful/accurate reading in the future.

 

[JulesMaximus]

It's refreshing that there are a FEW conservatives are honest about the violent sociopaths that make up a significant number of the rightwing:

I'm a conservative, but find this kind of behavior absolutely reprehensible. I recently went to a backyard cookout with a few neighbors (this is an almost 100% 'Republican' area), and was shocked at: A) How fucking idiotic most of them were and B) How often I heard people talking about assassinating the POTUS and other 'liberals/commies'

Arkaign circa 2008/2009

Thank you Arkaign for your refreshing honesty. One of the better ATPN rightwingers

:thumbsup:

I have a neighbor who is like that. He's also religious as hell but he won't waste a moment making extremely negative and hateful comments about muslims or our President. I find him to be one of the most distateful people I've met when he starts on his political rants...otherwise he's tolerable.

 

[Specop 007]

Except he purchased his gun legally...

Right, its not a failure of the gun purchasing process. The background check showed he was cleared to own a firearm.

The mental health and death threats hadnt ever been put on his background to throw a red flag.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Highlighted the section of the original post that answers your comment.


Respectfully request a more careful/accurate reading in the future.

I did read it, I was merely pointing that out for those who may not have realized it. I thought it needed to be stated.

And how do you feel about adding restrictions about private party transfers because that seems to be a big gaping hole in our handling of gun sales in many states across the country.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well befor its law there alot more to be gotten . Look at it like this get them befor they get you . Those femi camps are real and those black caskets are real . 6 major earth quakes already in 2011. Things are going to get crasy very soon. It;s you or them

 

[Scotteq]

I did read it, I was merely pointing that out for those who may not have realized it. I thought it needed to be stated.

And how do you feel about adding restrictions about private party transfers because that seems to be a big gaping hole in our handling of gun sales in many states across the country.

OK


I'm not opposed to requiring the buyers pass the same background screening involved in aquiring a new Firearm. Have Gun dealers broker the transactions: Run the check and transfer registration for a small charge. Firearms dealers already have the computers set up for that, and they get some business fees and some increase in traffic in their stores in exchange for the hassle.

We have to transfer registrations for Cars, yah?? Sounds Fair~ish?

On the negative side, (FWIW) Registration lists have been known to turn into confiscation lists...

And I have a lot of heartburn with 'interpretations' of laws that tend to behave like an outright ban: Stupid stuff like ...have to have a "Firearm Stamp" to purchase a firearm...", which sounds reasonable, until you figure out that nobody ever prints any stamps, or maybe only a very few are ever made. So if the Law says you have to not be a violent Criminal/Felon or have a mental disorder, and pass a safety course. Then any non~Crazy, Law abiding citizen should be granted the priveledge upon completing an appropriate safety course which really *is* available for people to take.

 

[dali71]

It's refreshing that there are a FEW conservatives are honest about the violent sociopaths that make up a significant number of the rightwing

The progressive “climate of hate:” An illustrated primer, 2000-2010

Feel free to post a comparable list of "the violent sociopaths that make up a significant number of the rightwing."

 

[irishScott]

I'm sure the Brits thought of the primitive new Colonists the same way back then too as completely out of their minds.

But they weren't. They were intelligent articulate adults who had logical reasons for doing what they did. This guy is an inarticulate psychopath who killed due to an untreated medical condition.

 

[JulesMaximus]

OK


I'm not opposed to requiring the buyers pass the same background screening involved in aquiring a new Firearm. Have Gun dealers broker the transactions: Run the check and transfer registration for a small charge. Firearms dealers already have the computers set up for that, and they get some business fees and some increase in traffic in their stores in exchange for the hassle.

We have to transfer registrations for Cars, yah?? Sounds Fair~ish?

On the negative side, (FWIW) Registration lists have been known to turn into confiscation lists...

And I have a lot of heartburn with 'interpretations' of laws that tend to behave like an outright ban: Stupid stuff like ...have to have a "Firearm Stamp" to purchase a firearm...", which sounds reasonable, until you figure out that nobody ever prints any stamps, or maybe only a very few are ever made. So if the Law says you have to not be a violent Criminal/Felon or have a mental disorder, and pass a safety course. Then any non~Crazy, Law abiding citizen should be granted the priveledge upon completing an appropriate safety course which really *is* available for people to take.

I agree with that. I've gotten into some heated debates with gun rights types here over the private party transfer issue. It seems like gun owners are willing to take zero responsibility for these "parking lot transactions" they enter into at gun shows where they buy and sell guns from/to complete strangers with no background check whatsoever.

 

[nyker96]

OP, I hear ya, send some emails to your rep about this. whatever your gripe about government over reach etc, just vent it here and the voting booth, just don't pick up a gun and do anything rash like the dude in the news.

 

[PrinceofWands]

One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday targeting the high-capacity ammunition clip the gunman used.

Ooooh time to get a loan and buy 10,000 high cap magazines to become wealthy like the people did last time.

 

[BoberFett]

Maybe we should make it against the law to be crazy. That should solve the problem.

That would certainly get DuhMcOwen off the forums.

 

[werepossum]

here are some more straws for you to grasp at..

lol +1!

 

[Darwin333]

Tends to happen when fired upon by radical righties.

Reports are saying that his favorite books were Mein Kamph and the communist manifesto. If that is true, wouldn't that make him a lefty nutjob?

The only relevant word in that was nutjob but why waste an opportunity to use a tragedy to jab the other side, eh?

 

[Darwin333]

Except he purchased his gun legally...

And he committed felonies prior to this incident in which the sheriff was aware of which would have removed his ability to legally own that gun...

 

[dali71]

And he committed felonies prior to this incident in which the sheriff was aware of which would have removed his ability to legally own that gun...

The same sheriff who went public with his refusal to enforce certain state laws.

 

[Craig234]

Reports are saying that his favorite books were Mein Kamph and the communist manifesto. If that is true, wouldn't that make him a lefty nutjob?

The only relevant word in that was nutjob but why waste an opportunity to use a tragedy to jab the other side, eh?

Uh, Hitler was right-wing, fascist; and there were a lot more books on the list. It was a diverse and contradictory list, not as if you can pick one title and say he followed that.

Don't forget the guy who wanted to murder San Francisco leftists who had a collection of right-wing pundit books saying leftists are enemies of the country etc.

 

[Amused]

Uh, Hitler was right-wing, fascist; and there were a lot more books on the list. It was a diverse and contradictory list, not as if you can pick one title and say he followed that.

Don't forget the guy who wanted to murder San Francisco leftists who had a collection of right-wing pundit books saying leftists are enemies of the country etc.

Oh oh! I can play this game! How about the leftist "Austin Affinity Group" who was caught bringing Molotov cocktails to the 2008 GOP convention!?

 

[classy]

I think we do need to have a better background check system for folks buying guns. This guy was nuts and everyone around him knew it, but yet he still was able to purchase a gun. Gun folks want to just say the constitution, but it ain't working by itself. Its just not working. And please before you start with, he'll just buy one illegally, that may be true, but too many times in these situation the guns are being bought legally. We need a change...................

 

[Amused]

I think we do need to have a better background check system for folks buying guns. This guy was nuts and everyone around him knew it, but yet he still was able to purchase a gun. Gun folks want to just say the constitution, but it ain't working by itself. Its just not working. And please before you start with, he'll just buy one illegally, that may be true, but too many times in these situation the guns are being bought legally. We need a change...................

In this case local law enforcement screwed up (which is no surprise given the sheriff is an idiot). The school kicked him out and he SHOULD have been charged with a felony for threats. He was not. He was busted for drugs, and they had their chance then, they let him go with no record.

Yep, everyone around him knew, including the cops. But a lenient system let him go not once, but twice.