Ayers interview on TV

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
My understanding of terrorism is to achieve political goals by means of violence and I don't see how bombing empty buildings somehow falls short of that.. But whatever, it's just a word and I can also see why no one would ever consider themselves to be terrorist. Revolutionary/terrorist.. it's all a matter of PR.

What seemed important was that his connection to Obama really wasn't all that the McCain campaign was trying to make it out to be. It seemed more like he barely knew the guy.

Uhhh so since the terrorists(who says he isn't) says it's a myth...it's just a myth? puhleeze...

So since you deny the US has committed terrorism countless times from Vietnam to Nicaragua, it's just a myth? puhleeeeeze.

You righties are in denial.

You have your own little ways to hide the truth, like yelling 'blame America first' when the truth is something you don't like.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: alchemize
As long as nobody is in the abortion clinic when it's bombed, that's not terrorism either. Got it.

who said this, besides Ayers and Lemon Law? The general vibe that I was getting from the thread was that Terrorism was in the eye of the beholder, not some silly technicality of who's home or not..

Originally posted by: alchemize
Yup. Or the doctor's home!

Heck, you can put a gun against the doctor's child's head, pull the trigger in front of him. But as long as there's no bullets in the gun, that's not terrorism.

Boy it's fun to play with left wing nuance. Let's keep going!

what the hell happened here?! WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM?! it's like you're channeling dead crazy people

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Shouldn't you be targeting your rage at Sandorski who appears to concur with my sarcasm? (and you might want to tap your meter). Or perhaps Ayers, who carries the same sick opinion?

I don't condone Ayres' acts of terrorism anymore than I condone the terrorism of a jackass who believes, "As long as nobody is in the abortion clinic when it's bombed, that's not terrorism either."

Not the brightest pixel on the screen, are you?

Sonny boy, you're running deep on the dark side. You need all the illumination you can get. Compared to you, I've got photons to spare for a lifetime. :light:

 

[Mani]

In order to be a terrorist, Ayers would have had to terrorize people. Noone fears William Ayers. Not now and not then.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Mani

In order to be a terrorist, Ayers would have had to terrorize people. Noone fears William Ayers. Not now and not then.

No, all he would have had to do, then, was to INTEND to terrorize people. Bombs have a habit of doing that as they explode, regardless of the intent of the bomber or the outcome.

As others have noted, the other side of this particular case is that both Ayres' terroristic activities and the Presidential election of 2008 are both over. The good news on both fronts is, today Ayres is not a terrorist, and he has since made positive contributions to society.

The better news is, Obama won, despite the righties' attempts to smear him with Ayres' ancient, irrelevant history. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[ModerateRepZero]

terrorism, being a loaded term, is somewhat subjective. hence the expression "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".

generally speaking though, most people agree that terrorism as an act has several characteristics:

- deliberate targetting of civilian / innocents.

- use of violence for political purposes. this distinguishes terrorism from petty crime where the goal of the perpetrator/criminal is self-gratification.

- actions are also intended to invoke fear/terror in the targets / civilian population to pressure authority into legitimizing or accomplishing its aims.


from what I recall of Ayers, there's no question that the Weathermen wanted to reshape society and at ONE point were willing to use violence to achieve their aims, but after the Greenwich explosion, they refrained from engaging in lethal explosions, even going so far as to warn targets ahead of time to evacuate. does that make him a terrorist? I guess if you go by intent and his earlier violent/homicidal tendencies. he's not Carlos the Jackal or Bin Laden by a long shot.

 

[dahunan]

Did the USA ever apologize for murdering all those Vietnamese?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: alchemize

Shouldn't you be targeting your rage at Sandorski who appears to concur with my sarcasm? (and you might want to tap your meter). Or perhaps Ayers, who carries the same sick opinion?

I don't condone Ayres' acts of terrorism anymore than I condone the terrorism of a jackass who believes, "As long as nobody is in the abortion clinic when it's bombed, that's not terrorism either."

Not the brightest pixel on the screen, are you?

Sonny boy, you're running deep on the dark side. You need all the illumination you can get. Compared to you, I've got photons to spare for a lifetime. :light:

Wow you are an ass. Instead of saying "sorry, I misunderstood" you drag your sorry ass right back for more. Are you too senile to understand I was making a sarcastic point, and that I obviously don't believe that statement? Fucktard.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Did the USA ever apologize for murdering all those Vietnamese?

Change your avatar.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
article

It's a long read...

After looking at the article, my sole response to you is . . . You consider that a long read? :shocked:

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize
As long as nobody is in the abortion clinic when it's bombed, that's not terrorism either. Got it.

Pretty much, but it's still Arson, Vandalism, and probably a long list of other things.

Yup. Or the doctor's home!

Heck, you can put a gun against the doctor's child's head, pull the trigger in front of him. But as long as there's no bullets in the gun, that's not terrorism.

Boy it's fun to play with left wing nuance. Let's keep going!

A persons Home is a whole other issue. It's all in the Intent: An Office can be an attack on an Organization or Idea, while an attack on a Home is certainly personal.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: dahunan
Did the USA ever apologize for murdering all those Vietnamese?

Change your avatar.

Yeah, how dare he question a completely illegitimate and pointless war! NO MORE AMERICAN FLAG FOR HIM!

cubby1223, weren't you supposed to take your medication?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize
As long as nobody is in the abortion clinic when it's bombed, that's not terrorism either. Got it.

Pretty much, but it's still Arson, Vandalism, and probably a long list of other things.

Yup. Or the doctor's home!

Heck, you can put a gun against the doctor's child's head, pull the trigger in front of him. But as long as there's no bullets in the gun, that's not terrorism.

Boy it's fun to play with left wing nuance. Let's keep going!

A persons Home is a whole other issue. It's all in the Intent: An Office can be an attack on an Organization or Idea, while an attack on a Home is certainly personal.

I see, cause like only ideas and organizations exist in a building, no people ever go in there. Thank heavens we have leftists such as yourself to clarify all the nuance around terrorism :roll:.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: alchemize
As long as nobody is in the abortion clinic when it's bombed, that's not terrorism either. Got it.

Pretty much, but it's still Arson, Vandalism, and probably a long list of other things.

Yup. Or the doctor's home!

Heck, you can put a gun against the doctor's child's head, pull the trigger in front of him. But as long as there's no bullets in the gun, that's not terrorism.

Boy it's fun to play with left wing nuance. Let's keep going!

A persons Home is a whole other issue. It's all in the Intent: An Office can be an attack on an Organization or Idea, while an attack on a Home is certainly personal.

I see, cause like only ideas and organizations exist in a building, no people ever go in there. Thank heavens we have leftists such as yourself to clarify all the nuance around terrorism :roll:.

If there are people present, that opens up other issues. I was speaking as if the Building was empty or otherwise People were not at risk.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
My understanding of terrorism is to achieve political goals by means of violence and I don't see how bombing empty buildings somehow falls short of that.. But whatever, it's just a word and I can also see why no one would ever consider themselves to be terrorist. Revolutionary/terrorist.. it's all a matter of PR.

What seemed important was that his connection to Obama really wasn't all that the McCain campaign was trying to make it out to be. It seemed more like he barely knew the guy.

Uhhh so since the terrorists(who says he isn't) says it's a myth...it's just a myth? puhleeze...

So since you deny the US has committed terrorism countless times from Vietnam to Nicaragua, it's just a myth? puhleeeeeze.

You righties are in denial.

You have your own little ways to hide the truth, like yelling 'blame America first' when the truth is something you don't like.

Uhh... where did I deny any of that? I'm not the one making claims - I'm just ridiculing the supposed "logic" people use.

Sorry, but when you people start with the America bashing, I call it for what it sometimes is and you for what you are. When you people do that sort of thing you fall into the blame America first crowd. If you can't handle it - maybe you should rethink and retool your guilt complex.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'd think better of the guy if he had paid for his crime and showed some remorse. That said I totally believe what he said about hsi relationship with Obama and think the Republicans trying to bind them together is just another case of Rovian Politics they seem to be addicted too.

 

[Carmen813]

Terrorism involves the use of tactics that are designed to invoke fear in the civilian population at large. They are random acts that target random individuals, for the most part. They rely upon surprise to create a low level psychological fear that "I could be dead at any moment, anywhere." 9/11 is a good example, because you saw how individuals and the government reacted to the situation by attempting to fight against terrorism by putting up a "show" of safety. Truth is, nothing the government can do will ever make us 100% safe, there are always ways around it.

Was Ayers a terrorist? From what I understand, his group targeted federal buildings and deliberately attempted to warn people to get the hell away. What he did was despicable, but his primary motivation does not seem to have been to invoke fear in the populace at large. By that definition he isn't exactly a terrorist.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Terrorism involves the use of tactics that are designed to invoke fear in the civilian population at large. They are random acts that target random individuals, for the most part. They rely upon surprise to create a low level psychological fear that "I could be dead at any moment, anywhere." 9/11 is a good example, because you saw how individuals and the government reacted to the situation by attempting to fight against terrorism by putting up a "show" of safety. Truth is, nothing the government can do will ever make us 100% safe, there are always ways around it.

Was Ayers a terrorist? From what I understand, his group targeted federal buildings and deliberately attempted to warn people to get the hell away. What he did was despicable, but his primary motivation does not seem to have been to invoke fear in the populace at large. By that definition he isn't exactly a terrorist.

wow... just wow. "isn't exactly a terrorist" :roll:

Yeah building bombs filled with nails isn't exactly being a "terrorist"... Bombing public and private buildings isn't being a "terrorist"... Trying to burn down people's homes isn't being a "terrorist"...

Also the apologism of they tried to "warn people" is really nothing more than an attempt to claim their terrorism is somehow less bad. But the reality is, they only supposedly did that after they blew themselves up. The intent was still terrorism afterwards regardless of whether you think they did or didn't target "innocents".

 

[microbial]

The title of the Chicago tribune article on the GMA interview leaves much to be desired in terms of journalistic integrity.

"Bill Ayers 'Secret Link" with Obama just a myth"

Just a myth? What like from mount olympus. How about some investigative follow-through and analysis.

How about writing about the political sewer trick by the Clinton and McCain campaigns. It was obvious they had a vested interest in inventing and forwarding this "myth"

How about questioning and investigating the myth makers...cheap-ass campaigning, and the media (like CT and GMA) could't find the real story if it bit them in the crotch.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Did the USA ever apologize for murdering all those Vietnamese?

Considering John Kerry lost an election because he accused our country of murdering innocent Vietnamese, I guess it must not have happened, so there's nothing to apologize for.