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AWD Sedan / Hatch

destrekor

destrekor

Lifer
So, what is everyone's opinions/knowledge of 2011/2012/2013 AWD cars (available in the US) ?

I've always lusted after the WRX/STi, but I'm trying to keep an open mind and find what will the ultimate compromise between performance, handling, and comfort.

I really don't want to look into the STi/EVO price range (mid-to-upper 30s), so I've been focusing on the WRX and trying to find suitable competitors.
But the AWD market seems so weak, at that price range, what I'm finding is it seems to be alone.

How does the Lancer Ralliart compare to the WRX? From what I've gathered, my opinion is still weighted toward the WRX, but I could be swayed.

The VW Golf R seems like a great balance between all the testable metrics, but it also commands a fair premium over the WRX. I'd like comfort, but I'm also not willing to trade most everything, in addition to $8k more, just to attain such; I could focus on luxury-style vehicles and walk away paying less if I had that much focus on comfort.

It seems the American manufacturers just can't hang with these Euro/Japanese options... but I really can't find that much quality input. Is the Fusion AWD model worthy? It too has a bit of a premium iirc.

Aside from raw performance numbers, I would like a talkative/informative steering wheel, the lusted-after all-weather grip, some storage space, 4 doors (or a HB-model "5" doors), sporty suspension that doesn't treat me like a punching bag on the worst Ohio and Michigan roads, and at least decent comfort driving for a few hours. Bonus amenities are a nice touch, but everything else would still be the more important concerns.

edit:

Just for the chuckle, let's throw Audio quattro's in there. Was browsing about and stumbled on the A4, which, while no performance beast, seems to be quite pleasing to reviewers. It is, of course, just a tad pricier.
 
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Fusion AWD? It is more on the "comfort" side of the equation than the "performance" side, but it is quite nice, and the 3.5L engines feel pretty fast (supposed to be sub-7-second 0-60). After driving a compact day-to-day, getting into a Fusion just feels luxuriously roomy. I have really enjoyed the Fusions that I have rented. And the upcoming 2013 models look very sexy, although they'll be losing the V6.

c3d88a2c296830b2e09a1b55e47f131a.jpg
 
Odd man out....Nissan Juke? One of the few out there with decent economy, AWD, and a manual transmission of that's desired.
 
slashbinslashbash said:
Fusion AWD? It is more on the "comfort" side of the equation than the "performance" side, but it is quite nice, and the 3.5L engines feel pretty fast (supposed to be sub-7-second 0-60). After driving a compact day-to-day, getting into a Fusion just feels luxuriously roomy. I have really enjoyed the Fusions that I have rented. And the upcoming 2013 models look very sexy, although they'll be losing the V6.

c3d88a2c296830b2e09a1b55e47f131a.jpg
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Front looks like an Aston Martin
 
destrekor said:
Aside from raw performance numbers, I would like a talkative/informative steering wheel, the lusted-after all-weather grip, some storage space, 4 doors (or a HB-model "5" doors), sporty suspension that doesn't treat me like a punching bag on the worst Ohio and Michigan roads, and at least decent comfort driving for a few hours.
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Well, the WRX is sprung pretty stiff, and STI even more so. Have you driven them? I don't mind driving a WRX on Wisconsin roads, but I do notice the bumps a bit more than my Mazdaspeed 6, which isn't a softie either.

BIG question for you. Manual transmission: YES or NO? Some vehicles (WRX, STI, Legacy GT) are available with only manual. Some (Evo, BMW 3, Audi A3/A4) offer your choice. Some (Fusion, Volvo S60) only auto.

How about Subaru Legacy GT? It is mid-sized, so should have a bit more comfort, but has the engine of the WRX for peppiness with a 6-speed manual transmission (WRX has 5-speed, STI has 6-speed). Alternately a 6-cylinder Legacy starts around $25k with auto transmission and AWD, and should be even more comfortable than the GT, suspension-wise.

ballmode said:
don't they make some kind of volvo turbo hatch/sedan?
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Volvo V50 station wagon is discontinued for 2012 and I don't think was available in AWD. S40 sedan was also discontinued, and also not available in AWD AFAIK. C30 is a turbo hatch, but only 2 doors (well, 3) and FWD. S60 is the lowest end that meets requirements (4 doors, AWD) and starts at $38,500 for the AWD model. For that money, it will probably be extremely nice and comfortable, with mild sporting intentions. AFAIK no manual transmissions are available in the S60.
 
vi edit said:
Odd man out....Nissan Juke? One of the few out there with decent economy, AWD, and a manual transmission of that's desired.
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cant get the manual with awd. plus uh its looks are well weird to most people.


that said if you are paying in the 30-40k range, i wouldnt get a golf R unless you were some VW golf super fan boy. its just over priced .

WRX sti or regular WRX (i think the regular one is a much better value). or buy an A4 or A3.

G37x is probably in the range too even.
 
hans007 said:
cant get the manual with awd. plus uh its looks are well weird to most people.


that said if you are paying in the 30-40k range, i wouldnt get a golf R unless you were some VW golf super fan boy. its just over priced .

WRX sti or regular WRX (i think the regular one is a much better value). or buy an A4 or A3.

G37x is probably in the range too even.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing - the base WRX is essentially the price limit I'd like to achieve - a few grand more, perhaps... but I'm not really considering mid to upper 30s, which basically cuts out the Golf R, and really, a lot of the competitors it seems.

G37 Sedan - ooo how I wish. Base G25 AWD model is around the Golf R price, lowest price G37 AWD is around $38K, and the only Manual G37 Sedan is RWD-only.

And the Juke R - ooo drool. I'd get over the looks for that baby, but... the GT-R would be a better buy price wise (could get a few of them for less than the Juke R 😛) and uh... yeah. I'm taking donations, if anyone cares to help me get rid of my '97 Dakota. 😛
The base Juke is definitely, uh... interesting. If it offered more performance, I could handle it, perhaps. But the overall package seems "meh."

HarryLui said:
Ford SHO?
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Taurus SHO is a brute of a sedan, and while that could possibly be a great all-around car, that's out of this proposed price range. I entertained the idea awhile ago until I discovered the price.


Zap said:
Well, the WRX is sprung pretty stiff, and STI even more so. Have you driven them? I don't mind driving a WRX on Wisconsin roads, but I do notice the bumps a bit more than my Mazdaspeed 6, which isn't a softie either.

BIG question for you. Manual transmission: YES or NO? Some vehicles (WRX, STI, Legacy GT) are available with only manual. Some (Evo, BMW 3, Audi A3/A4) offer your choice. Some (Fusion, Volvo S60) only auto.

How about Subaru Legacy GT? It is mid-sized, so should have a bit more comfort, but has the engine of the WRX for peppiness with a 6-speed manual transmission (WRX has 5-speed, STI has 6-speed). Alternately a 6-cylinder Legacy starts around $25k with auto transmission and AWD, and should be even more comfortable than the GT, suspension-wise.



Volvo V50 station wagon is discontinued for 2012 and I don't think was available in AWD. S40 sedan was also discontinued, and also not available in AWD AFAIK. C30 is a turbo hatch, but only 2 doors (well, 3) and FWD. S60 is the lowest end that meets requirements (4 doors, AWD) and starts at $38,500 for the AWD model. For that money, it will probably be extremely nice and comfortable, with mild sporting intentions. AFAIK no manual transmissions are available in the S60.
Click to expand...

Well, I'll put this out there. I've never driven a manual in my life, and have zero access to a real car with a manual gearbox. With that said, I AM looking for a sporty or sporty-ish manual for my next ride, mainly because I was just so dead set on the WRX as my next car, and have been for quite awhile. Like I said, zero true experience, but I do understand the fundamentals and theories, thanks to a gated plastic shifter and racing simulations. 😉 The only issue with this knowledge, and it's a big one - there are often anti-stall features coded into the game. Misshifts are possible, but stalling is basically impossible in a few sims.

Think it will be an issue feigning experience and test-driving such a car off the lot? 🙂 I definitely will need to test drive regardless, but outside of sims and teaching myself through videos and advice online, it's basically down to getting thrown into the deep-end and learning to swim.

I don't look forward to a multitude of red slights, and worse, stop-n-go traffic on a highway... but I still want a manual car. 🙂


As for your suggestions, I have considered the other Subies, but I'd definitely like the added capabilities/tuning/engineering of the WRX-types. I think the Rex's have better differentials and ECUs than found in the other Subies, among other things. I enjoy spirited driving, and I don't want no damn weather turning me away from such. 😛


Like I mentioned, I have a '97 Dodge Dakota (Sport), and a test-drive will help make a good comparison, but it definitely seems it is quite bumpy and bad stretches of road. I think it is stiffer than other trucks, plus it's old.
Feeling bumps wouldn't be a deal-breaker, and I know a stiffer ride is going to make it more obvious than a softer ride - I guess it just depends on just how jarring it is compared to the vehicles I have driven thus far.

The STI is basically out of my range, as should be surmised from this post. It might be awhile yet before I take a test-drive of a WRX, but I guess a lot of this will depend on just how that ride ultimately feels.

If things work out, I'd like to get something sometime this Fall. I'm hoping the 2013 WRX is nice - I guess the 2012 is the same as the 2011 model, though the rest of the Impreza models (not WRX/STI) received an update. I think the 2013 Rex's should be brought up to date, so I'm hoping some good first impressions are out by the time I'm considering a vehicle purchase - if in fact I do make a purchase this year.

Aside from overall availability of AWD, I would like to hear of any opinions/reports of reliability/quality/maintenance issues. How do these various vehicles hold up, for the most recent model years?
 
destrekor said:
Well, I'll put this out there. I've never driven a manual in my life, and have zero access to a real car with a manual gearbox. With that said, I AM looking for a sporty or sporty-ish manual for my next ride, mainly because I was just so dead set on the WRX as my next car, and have been for quite awhile. Like I said, zero true experience, but I do understand the fundamentals and theories, thanks to a gated plastic shifter and racing simulations. 😉 The only issue with this knowledge, and it's a big one - there are often anti-stall features coded into the game. Misshifts are possible, but stalling is basically impossible in a few sims.

Think it will be an issue feigning experience and test-driving such a car off the lot? 🙂 I definitely will need to test drive regardless, but outside of sims and teaching myself through videos and advice online, it's basically down to getting thrown into the deep-end and learning to swim.

I don't look forward to a multitude of red slights, and worse, stop-n-go traffic on a highway... but I still want a manual car. 🙂
Click to expand...

If you haven't had time behind the wheel of a manual car it might be a little tricky getting it off the lot even during the test drive.

My current car is my first stick shift as well and I had about 3 hours of experience before I bought mine as ultimately I was not about to take a friend's car into traffic for the sake of learning so parking lot lessons was what I was restricted to.

I got to the lot and they just threw the key at me (they knew I was coming ahead of time) and I made it out of the parking lot okay. I stalled a few times on the street which is a bit nerve wrecking when you're inexperienced.

Made it home okay though and as time goes by it's becoming more and more natural. But yea it's hard to prepare yourself for really driving a manual car other than just going out and driving it a lot.
 
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i wouldn't say i was very good with a manual, but i can drive it well enough to get a car off the lot and not die i'd say.

that said, the way i learned was a couple of friends let me drive around with their manual cars for maybe an hour each in a parking lot.

based on that experience (which was spread over almost 5 years... ) i rented a manual miata from some random rental car company and drove it for 5 hours in the middle of the night when there were less cars. next day i drove the miata back to the rental place without stalling which was like 12 miles away.

i would say its possible. if you can rent a manual beater and have a friend who can teach go for it. i keep considering a manual car for my next car, but i just know i'd love the interaction like 1/3 of the time, and the other 2/3 of the time regret it due to where i live
 
the ralliart doesn't compare to the wrx... it technically is a competing car, but the WRX is just better. Now if you are talking evo vs STI, my opinion swings the other way. the evo is just a car that is easier to make power with and more fun.

the VW? no way for the price.

you are correct that the rally car market is slim. there are cars like the mazdaspeed3, upcoming focus ST. I don't think the G35x is going to be what you are looking for if you are considering a WRX style car.... cars like the G35. are family sedans and comfort, not the fun AWD cars you seem to be looking for.

are you opposed to a used car? You could find a nice evo for low to mid 20's, just need to shop around. the MR is pretty well equipped and comfortable.
 
destrekor said:
So, what is everyone's opinions/knowledge of 2011/2012/2013 AWD cars (available in the US) ?

Aside from raw performance numbers, I would like a talkative/informative steering wheel, the lusted-after all-weather grip, some storage space, 4 doors (or a HB-model "5" doors), sporty suspension that doesn't treat me like a punching bag on the worst Ohio and Michigan roads, and at least decent comfort driving for a few hours. Bonus amenities are a nice touch, but everything else would still be the more important concerns.
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You might look into the Honda Crosstour. I purchased a 2012 a few months ago and love it. It's a 4 door sedan with hatchback. It is full time AWD. It has NAV, and all the bells and whistles you could imagine. Mine fully optioned was about $35,000. They have the Honda reliability. I bought mine because I wanted something sporty, comfortable for long trips, fast, unique and more than enough creature comforts. I also like the idea that I can go weeks before seeing another one on the road. Once you test drive one you will fall in love with it. They are easily customizable.
 
Raizinman said:
You might look into the Honda Crosstour. I purchased a 2012 a few months ago and love it. It's a 4 door sedan with hatchback. It is full time AWD. It has NAV, and all the bells and whistles you could imagine. Mine fully optioned was about $35,000. They have the Honda reliability. I bought mine because I wanted something sporty, comfortable for long trips, fast, unique and more than enough creature comforts. I also like the idea that I can go weeks before seeing another one on the road. Once you test drive one you will fall in love with it. They are easily customizable.
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No offense but the crosstour is.not.sporty. unless you consider an accord sporty
 
destrekor said:
Well, I'll put this out there. I've never driven a manual in my life, and have zero access to a real car with a manual gearbox. With that said, I AM looking for a sporty or sporty-ish manual for my next ride
...
I don't look forward to a multitude of red slights, and worse, stop-n-go traffic on a highway... but I still want a manual car. 🙂
Click to expand...

No big deal. Don't know how prevalent it is, but the Subarus have "hill assist" in that it holds the brakes for you until you get going, to keep you from rolling backwards on a hill. Clutch isn't that heavy, unlike an old Mustang GT I used to have, so stop/go isn't bad as long as you aren't a whiny little bitch. :twisted: Until you get used to it, just make sure you rev it up to mid-RPM (around 3000-4000-ish) before letting the clutch out smoothly (don't just dump it). And remember, in case of emergency you can always push in the clutch and brakes. 😉

I guess I was lucky in that my dad took me out to the desert when I was 10 years old and let me drive his manual transmission pickup truck (barely peeking over dash). The only danger out there was getting stuck in sand (which I did a couple times 😳 ). I've been driving manual transmission vehicles since then.

destrekor said:
As for your suggestions, I have considered the other Subies, but I'd definitely like the added capabilities/tuning/engineering of the WRX-types.
Click to expand...

I'd say the Legacy GT is a "WRX type."

destrekor said:
If things work out, I'd like to get something sometime this Fall. I'm hoping the 2013 WRX is nice - I guess the 2012 is the same as the 2011 model
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AFAIK the WRX and STI are now officially discontinued until the 2013 comes out, so only way to get one would be any remaining stock left on dealer lots (good luck on that - we had to order ours) or a used one.

destrekor said:
Aside from overall availability of AWD, I would like to hear of any opinions/reports of reliability/quality/maintenance issues. How do these various vehicles hold up, for the most recent model years?
Click to expand...

I won't mention my few issues with the Mazdaspeed 6 since it is no longer available. The WRX has been pretty reliable. The left turn light has gone out twice, second time they traced it to some wiring problem. Both times fixed under warranty. Oil changes are expensive because of requiring synthetic, so around $60-70 a pop. I think recommended interval is 3750 miles or something like that for turbo Subarus... except I hear they've changed the interval to state "no longer than 7500 miles." I'll have to look into that when I get a chance. Only other thing was that the dealer sold my wife on some injector cleaning for $200. I wasn't around to say "no" (I usually bring it in, but have been out of town). 😡 Seriously though, if it isn't in the manual's maintenance guide and isn't broke...
 
Wow, I really haven't really shopped this category much in the last few years but the options of hatch + AWD + manual tranmission are almost non-extistant at this point.

Your only options end up being uhhh...WRX, WRX, and WRX. Did I mention the WRX? 😀

Juke + AWD = auto only
Legacy + turbo = auto only
Audi A3 + AWD = auto only
Mazda CX-5/CX-7 + AWD = auto only
Forester + Turbo = auto only
VW CC + AWD = auto only
Audi A4 + wagon = auto only

If you look into the used market you can get into a Forester XT, Legacy GT, Saab 9-2X (rebadged WRX), A4 wagons, ect. Market opens up a bit for manual transmission equipped vehicles.
 
vi edit said:
Wow, I really haven't really shopped this category much in the last few years but the options of hatch + AWD + manual tranmission are almost non-extistant at this point.

Your only options end up being uhhh...WRX, WRX, and WRX. Did I mention the WRX? 😀

Juke + AWD = auto only
Legacy + turbo = auto only
Audi A3 + AWD = auto only
Mazda CX-5/CX-7 + AWD = auto only
Forester + Turbo = auto only
VW CC + AWD = auto only
Audi A4 + wagon = auto only

If you look into the used market you can get into a Forester XT, Legacy GT, Saab 9-2X (rebadged WRX), A4 wagons, ect. Market opens up a bit for manual transmission equipped vehicles.
Click to expand...

Well, I could handle a sedan if everything else about the car was great. I'd just prefer a hatch for the extra storage space. But generally "wagons" are hideous, and yes I would rather a non hideous vehicle. 😛
But a few HBs are awesome.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
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