awd/fwd when wanting to go cheap

[NutBucket]

I've had 4 Subarus...no real problems I wouldn't expect with other Japanese makes.

And hello, Honda had those trans issues. I'm sure that's going to get worse again as they're using that horrific ZF 9-speed now. Plus Toyota had their oil sludge issues. Obviously everyone has issues.

Besides, you didn't specify how AWD is a disadvantage.

 

[Eug]

I've had 4 Subarus...no real problems I wouldn't expect with other Japanese makes.

And hello, Honda had those trans issues. I'm sure that's going to get worse again as they're using that horrific ZF 9-speed now. Plus Toyota had their oil sludge issues. Obviously everyone has issues.

Besides, you didn't specify how AWD is a disadvantage.

I didn't say AWD was a disadvantage. I said there are other factors that must be considered, such as Subaru's average reliability.

And you missed this part of my subsequent post, probably because I added it after the fact:

P.S. I'm picking up the RAV4 AWD Hybrid today. 34/31 mpg US

Sure, the car costs more, but the in-city mpg is also hugely better than all the cars you mentioned. BTW, there is no rear driveshaft. Independent motors for the front and rear, with the same gas engine, electric motors, and drivetrain as the Lexus NX 300h. And I just happen to like hybrids in general.

However, I'm not deluded enough to think this RAV4 AWD Hybrid is an off-road vehicle (other than gravel roads, etc.).

Going to pick it up now... See ya later!

 

[NutBucket]

I had a hybrid for a while...I'd consider a Volt but boring cars are just...boring!

 

[tsupersonic]

I would take the JD reliability with a grain of salt. MB at #2? Yeah...right.

AWD and snow tires is the ultimate combo, but AWD can be a pricey option, usually consumes more gas, and weighs a bit more compared to FWD/RWD. I live in upstate NY, and we typically get hammered with lake effect snow (not this year...so far). Snow tires are a must up here (imo), and AWD can be comforting for less experienced drivers. If you don't get snow tires on an AWD, you're screwed. I see this combo all the time up here :\

 

[Kaido]

i pretty much considered only awd but noticed fwd variants have the best deals and...honestly...fwd seems to do just fine in modest winter weather.

i want to pay cash for the veh. Fwd cars save around $5k.

I've leased for the last ten years, and finally sprung for a couple of cars to own for the next ten. My wife got an AWD Forester & I got an AWD/4WD Jeep Renegade. They are both fantastic in the snow. I live on a steep hill & every winter there were days where I couldn't get up & would have to park at the bottom and hike up to get home. Not a huge deal, but definitely annoying. I haven't gotten stuck once so far with the AWD cars - not that they can't get stuck, but they do a better job, even in the rain.

However - my previous car was a FWD Kia Soul. With ESC (required on 2014 & up models iirc) & TC, it was the best car I've ever driven in the snow up to that point. Like others have said, if you don't want to spring for AWD but need better snow performance, FWD + snow tires will get you there a lot cheaper. If you want to DIY, factor in a grand on top of the selling price for a separate set of rims, Blizzaks, and a something like an impact wrench & maybe a cheap hydraulic trolley jack if you want to make it easier on yourself.

 

[Jumpem]

I wouldn't spend an extra $5000 ($10k vs $15k) solely for AWD given 6" of snow on a bad day.

I get much more than that.

 

[Jumpem]

This is a common statement, and a statement that is flat out wrong.

The Subarus often have an advantage for off-roading, but most people don't get AWD to off-road. They get AWD to have better traction on icy urban streets, etc.

Go watch some roller test videos. Most AWD systems are junk, particularly Honda's.

 

[PricklyPete]

I'm a huge fan of AWD where I live, but you will get by just fine with a modern FWD vehicle with decent tires.

 

[MongGrel]

This is a common statement, and a statement that is flat out wrong.

The Subarus often have an advantage for off-roading, but most people don't get AWD to off-road. They get AWD to have better traction on icy urban streets, etc.

Haven't driving on ice really in decades now, but grew up in snow.

AWD isn't going to make a huge difference on ice, I had a shortbed GMC High Sierra 3/4 ton 4x4 years ago and was driving to work on an icy highway and a high gust of wind spun me going around 30 and put me in a steep slope on the far side.

Another guy in a 4x4 came along with a tow rope and we got it out, took a couple hundreds of yards probably between the two of us try to drag it out, me in it and him pulling, but we got it up there.

My dad and I used to even go out in that truck before I bought it off him and look for people stuck in snowbanks and pull them out for free, just to do it around town.

But on ice your going to slide.

 

[YBS1]

Generally AWD is not going to cost you an additional $5k, it tends to be 2 to 3 thousand. My guess is that people who opt for the AWD versions tend to be more apt to want the vehicle "loaded" anyway, so the AWD versions tend to be better equipped on average on for dealer stock vehicles. Something else to keep in mind when considering price differences between the two, you'll tend to get much of that back upon resell / trade in.

 

[Eug]

For the RAV4 LE AWD, it's all of US$1400 more than the RAV4 LE FWD.

Haven't driving on ice really in decades now, but grew up in snow.

AWD isn't going to make a huge difference on ice, I had a shortbed GMC High Sierra 3/4 ton 4x4 years ago and was driving to work on an icy highway and a high gust of wind spun me going around 30 and put me in a steep slope on the far side.

Another guy in a 4x4 came along with a tow rope and we got it out, took a couple hundreds of yards probably between the two of us try to drag it out, me in it and him pulling, but we got it up there.

My dad and I used to even go out in that truck before I bought it off him and look for people stuck in snowbanks and pull them out for free, just to do it around town.

But on ice your going to slide.

? The point of AWD here is you're going up an icy hill, it's a lot easier to get up that hill with AWD than FWD.

OTOH, if you're going too fast for the conditions on the highway, AWD is not really going to help you. You don't actually stop better on ice with AWD.

 

[Jumpem]

For the RAV4 LE AWD, it's all of US$1400 more than the RAV4 LE FWD.


? The point of AWD here is you're going up an icy hill, it's a lot easier to get up that hill with AWD than FWD.

OTOH, if you're going too fast for the conditions on the highway, AWD is not really going to help you. You don't actually stop better on ice with AWD.

AWD certainly does allow you to travel faster on snow covered roads.

 

[Midwayman]

AWD certainly does allow you to travel faster on snow covered roads.

I love to hear the logic on that one. If you literally mean faster- I guess in the right situation where traction is limiting your top speed like maybe though deep snow? Everything stops and turns with all 4 wheels though. You're an idiot if you're driving faster because you have AWD.

 

[yh125d]

If you can only afford one, and winter weather is the only consideration (no off roading) snow tires are the better to have.

On normal roads, your average FWD car with snow tires can get anywhere you need to go (so long as you're not having to deal with particularly steep hills - AWD, or unplowed roads - AWD + ground clearance). AWD with all seasons could also get you just about wherever you need to go, but it doesn't help you stop at all, and doesn't do all that much for turning either. Since most winter weather accidents are caused by inadequate turning or stopping, those are obviously more important.

But realistically it depends on where you live, and how often/what type of wintry precip you're having to deal with. Since you're asking this question, I'd guess you're not in Wisconsin, and you'd probably be perfectly fine with FWD and all seasons - with careful driving - when you do get any

I'm in NE Oklahoma. We don't get all that much, and sometimes we go all winter without any significant build up. But when it does get dumped on us, it's not uncommon to have an inch of ice with 6-10" of snow on top. I've driven all through those storms in recent years - and in one of the hilliest towns in the state - in FWD cars with all seasons without any significant trouble.

 

[yh125d]

AWD certainly does allow you to travel faster on snow covered roads.

It lets you travel faster, sure. But you're less safe doing so, because AWD only helps you GO. It does not help you STOP, and it has very little effect on turning except at parking lot speeds - and even then only while accelerating.

 

[NutBucket]

I always accelerate through turns....

 

[Jumpem]

I love to hear the logic on that one. If you literally mean faster- I guess in the right situation where traction is limiting your top speed like maybe though deep snow? Everything stops and turns with all 4 wheels though. You're an idiot if you're driving faster because you have AWD.

An idiot with decades of experiencing driving in the snowiest large city in the country.

 

[Jumpem]

It lets you travel faster, sure. But you're less safe doing so, because AWD only helps you GO. It does not help you STOP, and it has very little effect on turning except at parking lot speeds - and even then only while accelerating.

There are miles of open road between stops.

 

[3chordcharlie]

There are miles of open road between stops.

But there are not miles of open road between you and the truck that jackknifes in front of you, or the school bus that pulls out from a side street.

This thread is filled with posters trying to explain that AWD can give a false sense of confidence in the over-all ability of a vehicle to handle conditions. It is also filled with posters who are displaying that overconfidence.

AWD is nice to have, but it's a deal-breaker only in the most extreme conditions.

 

[Kelvrick]

Generally speaking, AWD + snow tires > FWD + snow tires > awd + all seasons > fwd + all seasons.

Let your budget fall where it falls and buy that. Don't be swayed by the Subaru vs honda vs toyota vs whateverthefuck brand of AWD.

If it matters that much, examine the AWD of the specific model and TRIM that you're interested in since there can, will, and often be differences between different versions of the same car, much less lumping an entire brand together. Hell, the year will often make differences in awd performances as the company chooses between different types of differentials and by the time you buy the used car, the clutch based differential of your car is already mostly or all used up.

 

[Alienwho]

What's the consensus for the AWD on the new 2016 Honda Pilot? I've watched some youtube reviews where the AWD on that seems to be very good. Not sure if the technology is different from previous models. I also wonder if the new Honda Ridgeline is going to use the new system. I was considering the pilot as my next family hauler in a year or two based on its off road performance I would be able to do some off the beaten path camping in it.

 

[Eug]

Generally speaking, AWD + snow tires > FWD + snow tires > awd + all seasons > fwd + all seasons.

Let your budget fall where it falls and buy that. Don't be swayed by the Subaru vs honda vs toyota vs whateverthefuck brand of AWD.

If it matters that much, examine the AWD of the specific model and TRIM that you're interested in since there can, will, and often be differences between different versions of the same car, much less lumping an entire brand together. Hell, the year will often make differences in awd performances as the company chooses between different types of differentials and by the time you buy the used car, the clutch based differential of your car is already mostly or all used up.

Yup.

BTW, we picked up this little gal yesterday and will be getting winter tires for her hopefully within the week.

 

[Accord99]

What's the consensus for the AWD on the new 2016 Honda Pilot? I've watched some youtube reviews where the AWD on that seems to be very good. Not sure if the technology is different from previous models. I also wonder if the new Honda Ridgeline is going to use the new system. I was considering the pilot as my next family hauler in a year or two based on its off road performance I would be able to do some off the beaten path camping in it.

It's essentially the same as the Acura SH-AWD systems used on the current MDX and TLX so it's a very capable AWD system that both provides better traction in bad ground conditions and also improves handling and feel in corners and curves because it can shift torque between the rear wheels.

 

[yh125d]

There are miles of open road between stops.

And on those straight stretches of road it makes no difference your drive.

Tell that to the guy halfway in the ditch down a stretch of highway after you plow into him because your AWD did nothing to stop you from hitting him. Or tell that to the guy you hit head on when you come across what seems like a totally slight right hand curve but since you're going 15mph faster than everyone else, you start to drift into the left lane and there's nothing you can do to avoid it.

Or preferably, you should just stay home until you understand how driving dynamics work when snow and ice are on the roads.

 

[Torn Mind]

There are miles of open road between stops.

Wrong. Here in DC area, the little clipper before the actual blizzard gave a metaphorical heart attack to the roadways in the area because the roads were untreated and hence got snowed and iced up FAST. This is an area where winter tires are not equipped normally because the snow is not bad and/or already treated. The utter lack of traction led to cars being unable to move.