Avigdor Lieberman's settlement bars Russian-Israeli families from buying homes

[SandEagle]

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...n-israeli-families-from-buying-homes-1.301170

"The biggest problem is that if you accept 10 families in which the mother isn't Jewish, then soon there will be 30 children, and tomorrow your son could fall in love with the good-looking girl next door. It's a real problem," Heiman said.

"We have to separate ourselves from the gentiles in commerce and everything else - particularly when it comes to living with them. It could lead to assimilation or idol worship; it opens the door to all kinds of trouble. They might lead us into committing offenses that Jews normally don't do, like idolatry and incest and all kinds of other perversions. That's why we have no place for them here," he said.


:thumbsdown: Is this democracy? Sounds pretty racist to me. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

 

[nageov3t]

might want to clarify that it's Foreign Minister Avigdo Lieberman, not Senator Joseph Lieberman and it's the settlement where he lives, not one that he runs. sounds like the decision was made by the settlement's equivalent of an HOA board.

but I agree... this sounds pretty clearly like discrimination and is clearly not a reflection of policies at large:

Gil Gan-Mor, an attorney heading the branch on housing rights at the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, said any decision not to accept a family as residents in a community on the basis of race, religion or sex is illegal discrimination.

 

[Lemon law]

Avigdo Lieberman is a hard core case in a nation known for religious discrimination. But since A. Leiberman leads a coalition of settler parties, he can somewhat dictate terms to Netanyuhu, and if Netanyuhu does not ask how high Lieberman wants him to jump, Lieberman can take his support away from Netanyuhu, and the Netanyuhu government will fall.

But why Netanyuhu allowed Lieberman the job of Israeli foreign Minister is somewhat of a mystery. And when Israel recently sent a delegation to Turkey in hopes of patching the rift in Israeli Turkish relations, Netanyuhu conveniently forgot to inform Lieberman, his own foreign Minister, of the meeting.

So I gotta wonder about how well A. Lieberman and Netanyuhu get along.

But that will bear watching.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Is this democracy? Sounds pretty racist to me.

First nyou are mis-representing who it was who said this....

Second just because a few people believe this way does not mean that Israel is not a Democracy!

Secondly we have people on these very forums who are American and believe the same way.......so is america not a democracy??

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So is america not a democracy??

Well it's dressed up and sold as one. In reality you get to pick from two candidates that are selected for you.

Think not? What are the chances of the next President being neither a Rep or Dem? Oh in theory it's possible, but then there's a non-zero probability that you just popped into existence with a complete memory of past events and ours were altered so we believe you were always here.

Not bloody likely.

You can have any choice as long as it's Hobson's.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe we should take a look at Lieberman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Lieberman

Many inside Israel are demanding Lieberman be fired and perhaps jailed.

But why Israel would employ Lieberman in any diplomatic role is totally baffling?

 

[Zebo]

First nyou are mis-representing who it was who said this....

Second just because a few people believe this way does not mean that Israel is not a Democracy!

Secondly we have people on these very forums who are American and believe the same way.......so is america not a democracy??

Third comes after second not secondly.

But I agree. Israel lets Muslims even own property which is more than can be said for most Muslim states w/ regaurd to Jews and it's a matter of policy not one man saying it.

 

[Narmer]

Maybe we should take a look at Lieberman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Lieberman

Many inside Israel are demanding Lieberman be fired and perhaps jailed.

But why Israel would employ Lieberman in any diplomatic role is totally baffling?

It's called horse-trading and this happens in parliamentary democracies. As you yourself said, Lieberman heads a party that has a large presence in the Knesset. Therefore, he can dictate to the prime minister which post he wants and since the foreign ministry is a prestigious one, he wanted that.

 

[Sinsear]

Death to palestinians!!!

 

[Lemon law]

It's called horse-trading and this happens in parliamentary democracies. As you yourself said, Lieberman heads a party that has a large presence in the Knesset. Therefore, he can dictate to the prime minister which post he wants and since the foreign ministry is a prestigious one, he wanted that.

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I can't say Narmer is not right, clearly Lieberman could somewhat pick and choose the post he wants, but the Lieberman timing could not be worse. Basically the rest of the world is demanding a viable Palestinian State by 2012, or Israel may find itself under and world wide economic embargo or what ever it takes to force progress. With the initial Israeli price being an extended Israeli settlement freeze past 9/2010 to be allowed to talk.

Putting Lieberman in the position of the Captain of the Titanic, he can decide to rearrange the deck chairs on a sinking ship or he can stand on principle and refuse. But refusing floats no boats.

After all, Israel has gotten away with let is talk about this for 37 years, but Israel always manages to make no viable concessions while continually advancing its control.

 

[Zebo]

Ll lol

 

[Lemon law]

Ll lol

===============================================================
I can understand your position Zebo, like many, you think that what works will work forever. But in so thinking, the world just keeps on a changing all over the world. Basically proving the stability you want to believe in is often an illusion. Worse yet, Zebo, you live in a nation with maybe the most pro-Israeli press in the entire world. And given that USA mainstream perspective, you may be out of step with about 95% of the world.

But that may be the acid test, is the jig finally up for Israel after 37 years? When the rest of the world somewhat demands a viable Palestinian State by 2012 or else, do you really think Israeli intransigence will keep working even another few months?

5 Million v almost 5 billion is very long odds. Israel really screwed their own pooch on the flotilla boarding, and now their standard excuses are no longer credible. But then again, Zebo, you could prove to be semi correct, Israeli may stall it out awhile longer, but in the fullness of time, you may be eating your LOL.

But if we can get a just mid-east peace, it could be a win win win for everyone except terrorists.

 

[kylebisme]

Israel lets Muslims even own property which is more than can be said for most Muslim states w/ regaurd to Jews and it's a matter of policy not one man saying it.

This is a matter of a West Bank settlement's policy, and their secretariat approved their bar on families which they deem not Jewish enough. As for state policy, the Israel Lands Administration controls over 90% of the land between Israel, East Jerusalem, and Gollan Heights, and engages in all sorts of discriminatory practices, to the point of leasing land taken from Arabs for use by Jews. The Israeli military government in the West Bank does the same, to the point of nearly half the settlements having been built on privately owned Palestinian land. Also note this discrimination on land rights is against everyone who isn't considered Jewish by the state; both Christians and Muslims, and anyone else. Furthermore, there's all sorts of bigotry against non-European Jews too, such as the current battle to keep schools segregated.

As for Muslim states, aside from our supposed strongest ally in the Muslim world, Saudi Arabia; which, if any, practice such extreme institutionalized and social bigotry as Israel?

 

[Freshgeardude]

As for Muslim states, aside from our supposed strongest ally in the Muslim world, Saudi Arabia; which, if any, practice such extreme institutionalized and social bigotry as Israel?

Shariah Law, nuff said.

 

[nageov3t]

This is a matter of a West Bank settlement's policy, and their secretariat approved their bar on families which they deem not Jewish enough. As for state policy, the Israel Lands Administration controls over 90% of the land between Israel, East Jerusalem, and Gollan Heights, and engages in all sorts of discriminatory practices, to the point of leasing land taken from Arabs for use by Jews. The Israeli military government in the West Bank does the same, to the point of nearly half the settlements having been built on privately owned Palestinian land. Also note this discrimination on land rights is against everyone who isn't considered Jewish by the state; both Christians and Muslims, and anyone else. Furthermore, there's all sorts of bigotry against non-European Jews too, such as the current battle to keep schools segregated.

As for Muslim states, aside from our supposed strongest ally in the Muslim world, Saudi Arabia; which, if any, practice such extreme institutionalized and social bigotry as Israel?

ask the gays... oh wait, they've been stoned to death.

 

[Lemon law]

Shariah Law, nuff said.

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Israeli law, enough said. Its called legalized theft by any Palestinian perspective. What kind of perverted law would ever allow someone to become a third or fourth class citizen in the land of their own birth, not based on behavior but based on religious heredity?

Tell me and us again FGD, how is religious bigotry and the unequal application of the law an American democratic ideal the American people should support in any way?

 

[EagleKeeper]

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Israeli law, enough said. Its called legalized theft by any Palestinian perspective. What kind of perverted law would ever allow someone to become a third or fourth class citizen in the land of their own birth, not based on behavior but based on religious heredity?

vs. state sponsored land theft and genocide?

 

[kylebisme]

Shariah Law, nuff said.

Israel determines whether or not someone is Jewish based on Halachic law, and engages in systematic discrimination such as i documented above based on that. So, no, saying "Sharia law" isn't enough.

ask the gays... oh wait, they've been stoned to death.

Yeah, that's awful, but it isn't done by most Muslim states, and at least it's only a small fraction of the population, while around half the population under Israeli control is systematically discriminated against simply for not being Jewish.

 

[sandorski]

Religion Fail. Israel has avoided becoming a Theocracy, but it's certainly teetering on one. If it ever does become one, it will fit right in with many other Mideast States in the level of Facepalmish lunacy.

 

[Borealis7]

so a religious nut (not Lieberman) says he doesn't want other non-religious-nuts living in his settlement and you get all worked up? move along nothing to see here.

 

[Lemon law]

so a religious nut (not Lieberman) says he doesn't want other non-religious-nuts living in his settlement and you get all worked up? move along nothing to see here.

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I for one Borealis am not going to just move on, there is a lot of Revelations to be seen here from an American perspective.

And it just leads to one question us Americans ought to be asking, namely, why are we sending massive amounts of US aid to prop up a Israeli state that is based on segregation and discrimination based on religion, principles 180 degrees away from core American values?


And for any of you tea leaf readers who bothered to read the A. Lieberman biography, its clear that his next planned step is going to be to expel the 1.5-2 million Arabs holding full Israeli citizenship.

 

[nageov3t]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I for one Borealis am not going to just move on, there is a lot of Revelations to be seen here from an American perspective.

And it just leads to one question us Americans ought to be asking, namely, why are we sending massive amounts of US aid to prop up a Israeli state that is based on segregation and discrimination based on religion, principles 180 degrees away from core American values?


And for any of you tea leaf readers who bothered to read the A. Lieberman biography, its clear that his next planned step is going to be to expel the 1.5-2 million Arabs holding full Israeli citizenship.

if an apartment complex in the Bronx was found to be purposefully evicting black people, would that be a reflection of racial policies in the US as a whole?

 

[Lemon law]

if an apartment complex in the Bronx was found to be purposefully evicting black people, would that be a reflection of racial policies in the US as a whole?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, Loki, you have to find that apartment complex in the Bronx, and then you would also see American law coming into play stopping those evictions.

But still, Loki, you have a poor analogy, if we allowed such mass evictions in the US, the fault and international blame would attach to the USA, when we have mass evictions going on in Israel and Israeli law allows it, the international blame and condemnation quite properly attaches to Israel.

 

[EagleKeeper]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First, Loki, you have to find that apartment complex in the Bronx, and then you would also see American law coming into play stopping those evictions.

But still, Loki, you have a poor analogy, if we allowed such mass evictions in the US, the fault and international blame would attach to the USA, when we have mass evictions going on in Israel and Israeli law allows it, the international blame and condemnation quite properly attaches to Israel.

You are missing the analogy.

Labeling a complete nation for the faults of a few.

The US government allows/encourage legal racism within some of its policies.

 

[Fern]

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...n-israeli-families-from-buying-homes-1.301170

"The biggest problem is that if you accept 10 families in which the mother isn't Jewish, then soon there will be 30 children, and tomorrow your son could fall in love with the good-looking girl next door. It's a real problem," Heiman said.

"We have to separate ourselves from the gentiles in commerce and everything else - particularly when it comes to living with them. It could lead to assimilation or idol worship; it opens the door to all kinds of trouble. They might lead us into committing offenses that Jews normally don't do, like idolatry and incest and all kinds of other perversions. That's why we have no place for them here," he said.


:thumbsdown: Is this democracy? Sounds pretty racist to me. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

Firstly, before reading this post I had never heard of Avigdor Lieberman and didn't know who he was.

Secondly, I think by linking his name to the article and quoting the inflammatory quote(s) you did you (inadvertantly?) give the impression Avigdor Lieberman is responsible (or at least connected) for them.

I don't see where Avigdor Lieberman has any connection to this, other than merely happening to live there.

This is about some mere HOA?

I'll also note that the most inflammatory quote(s) are from someone who isn't even an officer on the HOA.

Finally, I would say that 'Yes" this is an example of "democracy". In fact a perfect example of democracy and why our Founding fathers didn't want that form of government and instead chose our more deliberative form. Democracy has a tendancy to be nothing more than mob rule. So if a majority of homeowners vote no that's what you get.

Fern