AVI thing

[Muse]

I have an AVI that's about 2.6 GB that's the result of a capture from minidv by Nero VisionExpress 2.0. The thing runs around 12.5 minutes. I want to chop off about the first 5 minutes and write the rest to DVD+R or DVD+RW.

I edited it in Ulead VideoStudio 6.02 SE, simply cutting off the first 5 or so minutes and exported it the Microsoft AVI format. The program "rendered" it in about 10 minutes or so, creating an AVI that's about 4 GB! Well, I don't mind that it doubled the size particularly because the DVD+RW I was going to write it to is 4.7 GB capacity, however when I play that AVI on my computer it's real choppy, nothing like the AVI I created it from.

Questions:

1. Can I just copy an AVI to DVD+RW and it'll play OK in a player that supports DVD+RW?

2. Isn't there a freeware utility that will do what I want here without creating a file that plays choppy? I can't believe I have to use an encoder to do something as elimentary as cutting off the first 30% of an AVI. Intuitively, that makes no sense.


Thanks for any help.

 

[Auric]

Yeah it's queer that so many "video editors" don't actually allow editing sans re-encoding. Try the free VirtualDub and set both audio and video to direct stream copy.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Auric
Yeah it's queer that so many "video editors" don't actually allow editing sans re-encoding. Try the free VirtualDub and set both audio and video to direct stream copy.

Maybe I don't know how to use it (I never have), but I opened VirtualDub and tried to open the AVI file, preediting. VirtualDub put up a dialog basically saying that it couldn't open that form of compressed AVI because it didn't support the codecs involved. I presume that it's referring to whatever compression was used by my minidv video camera, assuming that Nero VisionExpress 2.0 didn't add its own form of compression when it captured that minidv.

Here's the exact error message dialog:

____________________________________________________________
VirtualDub Error
____________________________________________________________

X...... Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' (unknown)

........ VirtualDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media Player, are not suitable.

OK

____________________________________________________________

 

[Childs]

Try using the original source in VirtualDub. VideoStudio may be using a proprietary DV codec, and VidtualDub doesnt know how to use it. VirtualDub should be able to handle DV.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Childs
Try using the original source in VirtualDub. VideoStudio may be using a proprietary DV codec, and VidtualDub doesnt know how to use it. VirtualDub should be able to handle DV.

The file I'm trying to open with VirtualDub is the original capture AVI that was produced by Nero VisionExpress 2.0. I tried to use Nero VisionExpress 2.0 to do the editing (very very rudimentary), but gave up in frustration and went to Ulead VideoStudio 6, which I found dense, but managed to do what I wanted to (without getting too fancy). Maybe if I capture with a different program, VirtualDub will be able to deal with the files. Or does VirtualDub support capturing itself? I have a few different means of capturing, I believe, including the Nero and Ulead VideoStudio, and probably others. I have a different version of Ulead VideoStudio, too, version 5.0 DV. Maybe that uses different codecs.

Edit: I see now in VirtualDub, that it does support capturing AVI, so I guess I can recapture using my camcorder. I still have the tapes. Maybe I'll stop this time when I get to the one bad patch I edited out (about 2-3 minutes). Other than that the only thing I did was add some still images in Ulead VideoStudio for 6 seconds each. Before I did that I actually created 6 second AVI's, using a free program called RadTools.exe, but Ulead VideoStudio didn't need those. Maybe I can use them now, assuming VirtualDub can handle the codecs used to create those AVI's. I presume (hope) I can use VirtualDub to paste together a few AVI's into one file that I can somehow then encode to mpeg2 and burn to DVD, maybe using TMPGEnc. Or does VirtualDub support encoding, or does it even do a decent job? At this point I'm very much resigned to using more than one DVD for the 25 GB of video. The OP above was sort of a pilot project, and adjunct to the main project (but not without purpose). The main project is taking about 25 GB of AVIs (a bit more than 2 minidv's worth) and authoring to DVD's, however many it takes to pretty much retain the PQ.

 

[Childs]

Vdub can do capturing. It may also just be what Vdub said, you need a VFW DV codec.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Childs
Vdub can do capturing. It may also just be what Vdub said, you need a VFW DV codec.

Yes, I just noticed that. See my edits to my previous post. Thanks!

Some good news: Vdub opens the AVI's I created from JPG files with Radtools.exe.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, video work on PC can be slightly confusing. AVI is not a video format, per se, just an outer "shell" file-format, that contains (usually interleaved) streams of data inside it, and those streams need something called a "codec" to work with it. However, there are also two main APIs that programs use to decode/play and encode/record those stream formats, called "Video for Windows" (older one), and "DirectShow" (newer one). If you captured the video, then you probably have a codec on the system for it, but it is probably a DirectShow one, and VirtualDub only knows how to use "Video for Windows" codecs. Btw, those "streams" are uniquely identified, at least in .AVI files, by something called a "FOURCC", which is just 4 letters bunched together, used to represent the stream format in the file.

It might be worthwhile, since you already captured the file, to find out what FOURCC code/stream format that it was captured in, and what codecs you have on the system that know how to work with that stream format. There is a tool called "G-Spot", that will do this.

Actually, you said that you captured it from "minidv", do you mean directly from a camcorder? Did you use a firewire port, or an analog capture device? If you captured it using firewire, then it is probably pure DV format video. There are a number of DV-specific editing programs and packages for the PC, perhaps you should explore one of those. I don't know about Ulead 6, I think that was more MPEG/VideoCD-oriented. I would check out Sonic Foundry's Vegas 4.0 software, I think it does DV, and it's worked well for me in the past. It's a bit more of a "prosumer" package than Ulead, so it may offer a bit more complexity at first, but learning the program is worthwhile. It can do a lot.

Btw, I think that the reason that your rendered output file created in Ulead 6 was "choppy", is because by default, the target output render parameters are set for 15fps MPEG-1 output, IIRC.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Yeah, video work on PC can be slightly confusing. AVI is not a video format, per se, just an outer "shell" file-format, that contains (usually interleaved) streams of data inside it, and those streams need something called a "codec" to work with it. However, there are also two main APIs that programs use to decode/play and encode/record those stream formats, called "Video for Windows" (older one), and "DirectShow" (newer one). If you captured the video, then you probably have a codec on the system for it, but it is probably a DirectShow one, and VirtualDub only knows how to use "Video for Windows" codecs. Btw, those "streams" are uniquely identified, at least in .AVI files, by something called a "FOURCC", which is just 4 letters bunched together, used to represent the stream format in the file.

It might be worthwhile, since you already captured the file, to find out what FOURCC code/stream format that it was captured in, and what codecs you have on the system that know how to work with that stream format. There is a tool called "G-Spot", that will do this.

Actually, you said that you captured it from "minidv", do you mean directly from a camcorder? Did you use a firewire port, or an analog capture device? If you captured it using firewire, then it is probably pure DV format video. There are a number of DV-specific editing programs and packages for the PC, perhaps you should explore one of those. I don't know about Ulead 6, I think that was more MPEG/VideoCD-oriented. I would check out Sonic Foundry's Vegas 4.0 software, I think it does DV, and it's worked well for me in the past. It's a bit more of a "prosumer" package than Ulead, so it may offer a bit more complexity at first, but learning the program is worthwhile. It can do a lot.

Btw, I think that the reason that your rendered output file created in Ulead 6 was "choppy", is because by default, the target output render parameters are set for 15fps MPEG-1 output, IIRC.

Thanks, VirtualLarry. I appreciate the background information. I was deeply in need of that! Really. I knew next to nothing about this stuff. Now, to answer a few questions (and help clarify, hopefully):

Yes, I captured from minidv and I mean directly from the camcorder, a Canon Optura 20, and via firewire while using Nero VisionExpress 2.0, IIRC. Now I'm sure of all of that except I'm not 100% sure I was using Nero VisionExpress for that, but I'm pretty sure of that too. So, if you are right, it's "probably pure DV format video", but that's what VirtualDub is not able to open (gives that error message quoted in detail in this thread). Ulead 6 can work with it, and it can render in Mpeg 1 and Mpeg 2, but it does a lousy job of encoding to Mpeg 2, I discovered. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't be doing all this stuff, I'd be done with this project. I suppose I could split my project into two (or even three) and use Ulead 6 to create 2 or 3 DVD's and see how I like them. That would be bound to be much better than the crummy 5 GB mpeg 2 file it created from the project as a whole. However, I'm doubtful about the quality. I could try it - what have I got to lose? I could write to DVD+RW and have a look. Hey, I'm a true newbie in digital video! Thanks for that Vegas recommendation. I've seen it recommended in these forums before. It's not free, but I may be a lot better off giving up the freeware fixation for this stuff.

That mpeg file created by Ulead, mpeg1?? Hmm. How can I determine if it's mpeg 1 or mpeg 2? BTW, is mpeg 1 level 2 the same as mpeg 2? Thanks again!

Edit: I opened that file in Vdub and here's the notes I just took:

The AVI that Ulead 6 created when I exported my edited video to "Microsoft AVI" format is openable in VirtualDub (this is the choppy playing file I mentioned), and I don't believe it's mpeg1 or 15 fps. Here's what Vdub says about it ("AVI Information"):

Video stream:

Frame size, fps: 720x480, 29.97 fps
Length: 3843 frames (2:08.22)
Decompressor: Uncompressed RGB24
Data rate: 248583 kbps (0.00% overhead)

Audio stream:

Sampling rate: 48000Hz
Channels: 2 (Stereo)
Compression: Ulead DV Audio Codec
Layout: 257 chunks
Min/avg/max/total frame size: 21600/107663/115200 (27022K)
Data rate: 1726 kbps (0.02% overhead)

 

[Muse]

VirtualLarry, you say you like and use Sonic Foundry's Vegas 4.0 software. Does that include an AVI ---> mpeg2 encoder? If so, is it on a par with TMPGEnc? One of my concerns is maintaining the PQ of my minidv. Thanks.