Average CEO pay goes up again.

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
who are the P&N Elitists?

Anyone who believes that the country is doing well, as long as the rich are doing better. They also advocate elimination of social security and company provided benefits as a means of enriching the CEOs and big shareholders. They're also known to spout lines like "A rising tide raises all boats." as some sort consolation for offshored American workers. They're generally anti-worker and pro-corporation.

If these examples come close to describing your beliefs, then you are a P&N elitist.

Sounds like you have jealousy issues.

Not really. I believe that all Americans, including the rich, should work to improve America for all Americans. Patriotism is more than cheering for the troops and waving flags.

Sure you do.

I can tell you right now that some of us sure the hell do. I work my butt off to try to keep as many American workers employeed in the US as possible "AND" to make my company profitable and viable to stay open. CEO pay is going up at such a fast pace as the average worker in the corporation is getting a lower wage, and I'm not talking about the US worker. By offshoring, the wages of the companies are going down quickly. A better comparison would be to look at the % the CEO salary went up instead of CEO / worker pay as the average employee is making less (again, NOT US WORKER).

I dont know what else to say, do you think govt regulations over a market condition like workers compensation is the answer?

I look at it as if the owners dont care then why should I?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
who are the P&N Elitists?

Anyone who believes that the country is doing well, as long as the rich are doing better. They also advocate elimination of social security and company provided benefits as a means of enriching the CEOs and big shareholders. They're also known to spout lines like "A rising tide raises all boats." as some sort consolation for offshored American workers. They're generally anti-worker and pro-corporation.

If these examples come close to describing your beliefs, then you are a P&N elitist.

Sounds like you have jealousy issues.

Not really. I believe that all Americans, including the rich, should work to improve America for all Americans. Patriotism is more than cheering for the troops and waving flags.

Sure you do.

I can tell you right now that some of us sure the hell do. I work my butt off to try to keep as many American workers employeed in the US as possible "AND" to make my company profitable and viable to stay open. CEO pay is going up at such a fast pace as the average worker in the corporation is getting a lower wage, and I'm not talking about the US worker. By offshoring, the wages of the companies are going down quickly. A better comparison would be to look at the % the CEO salary went up instead of CEO / worker pay as the average employee is making less (again, NOT US WORKER).

I dont know what else to say, do you think govt regulations over a market condition like workers compensation is the answer?

I look at it as if the owners dont care then why should I?

I'm not complaining about the CEO pay (although I do think it's high and it does slightly piss me off that our CEO gets a big raise while freezing our wages for the year!), I'm simply stating that I work my butt off and care about the American worker. Also, I said that CEO pay to worker pay ratio is not a good indicator of CEO growth as the average worker pay per company is going down due to offshoring. If you want to see a better stat, look at CEO wage growth as a % year over year, not a ratio (IMO). I never once said anything about controlling CEO pay or regulating anything.


Example: My company has replaced half of the US workers with Mexican labor in the last 5 years. My wages are up over the last 5 years, but the overall wage is down significantly as the average US worker here gets $20.00 including benefits and the average Mexican get $1.15.

The average overall wage went from $20.00 to around to around $11.50 (or so). The CEO ratio is now almost doubled even if his wages were frozen for the entire 5 years. Also note, my wages grew, but the overall payout of my company "per person working" was much less. Funny thing statistics.....

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
who are the P&N Elitists?

Anyone who believes that the country is doing well, as long as the rich are doing better. They also advocate elimination of social security and company provided benefits as a means of enriching the CEOs and big shareholders. They're also known to spout lines like "A rising tide raises all boats." as some sort consolation for offshored American workers. They're generally anti-worker and pro-corporation.

If these examples come close to describing your beliefs, then you are a P&N elitist.

Lot of false nonsense here. I don't care about private company provided benefits. Companies like United who can't pay their pesions should be forced to liquidate and fold. I advocate the elimination of SS not for the CEOs and big shareholders but to emphasize people saving up for their own retirement and to prevent an undue burden from being placed on mine and my children's generation. The SS payments don't burden the rich very much.

I do not worship the rich, but I do wish to join them.

And the rich work for the benefit of Americans. They pay their taxes.

You're an elitist and you worship the rich.

 

[Amplifier]

People are being paid what they're worth!?! Oh, my, gosh.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
OK, who believes excessive CEO pay is good? Even morons like George W. Bush wouldn't buy that . . . oh, nevermind.

Even worse, why would you worship the rich?

Some of the guys here really believe that the rich are better than the rest of us, hence their attitudes...

"Better" got nothing to do with it. Let me ask you, do you think these "rich" are hurting you by their very existence?

Regardless, there are many ways of measuring wealth in this life beyond the counting of money.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
OK, who believes excessive CEO pay is good? Even morons like George W. Bush wouldn't buy that . . . oh, nevermind.

Even worse, why would you worship the rich?

Some of the guys here really believe that the rich are better than the rest of us, hence their attitudes...

"Better" got nothing to do with it. Let me ask you, do you think these "rich" are hurting you by their very existence?

Regardless, there are many ways of measuring wealth in this life beyond the counting of money.

The methods the rich use to get richer, like offshoring and promoting illegal immigration, hurt my country and severely limit my job options.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
OK, who believes excessive CEO pay is good? Even morons like George W. Bush wouldn't buy that . . . oh, nevermind.

Even worse, why would you worship the rich?

Some of the guys here really believe that the rich are better than the rest of us, hence their attitudes...

"Better" got nothing to do with it. Let me ask you, do you think these "rich" are hurting you by their very existence?

Regardless, there are many ways of measuring wealth in this life beyond the counting of money.

The methods the rich use to get richer, like offshoring and promoting illegal immigration, hurt my country and severely limit my job options.

Start your own business then and stop leaning on the rich to provide "you" with a job.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
OK, who believes excessive CEO pay is good? Even morons like George W. Bush wouldn't buy that . . . oh, nevermind.

Even worse, why would you worship the rich?

Some of the guys here really believe that the rich are better than the rest of us, hence their attitudes...

"Better" got nothing to do with it. Let me ask you, do you think these "rich" are hurting you by their very existence?

Regardless, there are many ways of measuring wealth in this life beyond the counting of money.

The methods the rich use to get richer, like offshoring and promoting illegal immigration, hurt my country and severely limit my job options.

Start your own business then and stop leaning on the rich to provide "you" with a job.

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Them what gots gets. They buy the politicians and the laws to make these things happen.

Which begs the question, who made it possible for laws and politicians to be bought? Oh, that's right, the populist reform politicians (what today we call "liberals") of 100 years ago. They gave government the power to control business, and as such gave government the power to grant favors to the highest bidders.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Hah.

🙁

 

[Vic]

Hey, if we don't laugh, we cry.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
OK, who believes excessive CEO pay is good? Even morons like George W. Bush wouldn't buy that . . . oh, nevermind.

Even worse, why would you worship the rich?

Some of the guys here really believe that the rich are better than the rest of us, hence their attitudes...

But they are probably outnumbered by the poor envious people who really think all the rich go around thinking they are better than everyone else.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

You're an elitist and you worship the rich.

If you say so. I don't hate the rich the way some do.

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

Clearly, too difficult for you.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: zendari

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

Clearly, too difficult for you.

Zen, don't you still live at your parents' house? 😉

 

[zendari]

No, I moved out, have an apartment and a roommate.

I have my own Bill Gates shrine too.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: zendari

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

Clearly, too difficult for you.

Zen, don't you still live at your parents' house? 😉

I think Zen just owned himself.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
OK, who believes excessive CEO pay is good? Even morons like George W. Bush wouldn't buy that . . . oh, nevermind.

Even worse, why would you worship the rich?

Some of the guys here really believe that the rich are better than the rest of us, hence their attitudes...

"Better" got nothing to do with it. Let me ask you, do you think these "rich" are hurting you by their very existence?

Regardless, there are many ways of measuring wealth in this life beyond the counting of money.

The methods the rich use to get richer, like offshoring and promoting illegal immigration, hurt my country and severely limit my job options.

Start your own business then and stop leaning on the rich to provide "you" with a job.

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

My dad runs several business's and I just started my own up. Nobody said it was easy but that is what seperates the haves and the have nots. The ones providing the jobs "haves" and the people needing a job "have-nots".

So unless you are willing to start your own business stop whining about the rich who provide you with a job.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
OK, who believes excessive CEO pay is good? Even morons like George W. Bush wouldn't buy that . . . oh, nevermind.

Even worse, why would you worship the rich?

Some of the guys here really believe that the rich are better than the rest of us, hence their attitudes...

"Better" got nothing to do with it. Let me ask you, do you think these "rich" are hurting you by their very existence?

Regardless, there are many ways of measuring wealth in this life beyond the counting of money.

The methods the rich use to get richer, like offshoring and promoting illegal immigration, hurt my country and severely limit my job options.

Start your own business then and stop leaning on the rich to provide "you" with a job.

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

My dad runs several business's and I just started my own up. Nobody said it was easy but that is what seperates the haves and the have nots. The ones providing the jobs "haves" and the people needing a job "have-nots".

So unless you are willing to start your own business stop whining about the rich who provide you with a job.

He has the full US Constitutional right to whine about it as do you whining about him whining (if you see fit to call it that). You have the right to "ask" him to stop whining, but NOT take it away or try to stop him.

Oh, and the haves do not have to be business owners. You can do quite well with hard work, a decent education, decent job and good fiscal responsiblity including investing, debt management. Remember, far more new businesses fail than survive, so owning a business doesn't mean squat "until" you succeed.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: EatSpam
When these guys say they must offshore and cut benefits, is it really to make their companies more competitive or are they just padding their own pockets?

Both. The company becomes more competitive, saving hundreds of millions of dollars, and he/she takes a cut of it.

That would be fine, but the problem is that CEO pay also increases when company performance declines. It's also disturbing to see how the true extent of CEO compensation is hidden from shareholders. See Pay without Performance: The Unfulfilled Promise of Executive Compensation to see why executive pay is well hidden and why it increases when they do poorly.

 

[alent1234]

if you people are so against it then stop buying stocks

95% of ceo pay is stock options and that's investors giving ceo's money when they buy shares in the company since the ceo is selling. if this bothers you so much cash out your mutual funds and put everything in bonds

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: alent1234
if you people are so against it then stop buying stocks

95% of ceo pay is stock options and that's investors giving ceo's money when they buy shares in the company since the ceo is selling. if this bothers you so much cash out your mutual funds and put everything in bonds

How about enough stock holders getting together to bitch about it? Might not do a thing, but better than bailing out on a profit.

Some people seem to think that only companies need to profit. Well, I tell you, I'm in it to profit too. 😀

Anybody have a CEO % gain year over year? That's a better indicator. Should it really be much more than the % earnings gain year over year?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

CEO pay: Sky high gets even higher
A new report shows top-dog pay bites shareholders, and alleges war profiteering among some CEOs.
August 30, 2005: 12:24 PM EDT
By Jeanne Sahadi, CNN/Money senior writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) ? If sky-high executive pay at publicly traded companies gives you vertigo, you might want to read this sitting down.

In 2004, the ratio of average CEO pay to the average pay of a production (i.e., non-management) worker was 431-to-1, up from 301-to-1 in 2003, according to "Executive Excess," an annual report released Tuesday by the liberal research groups United for a Fair Economy and the Institute for Policy Studies.

Good news for the rich and those who worship them. But it makes me wonder. When these guys say they must offshore and cut benefits, is it really to make their companies more competitive or are they just padding their own pockets?

But before you say, "Well, the CEO provides value to his company", the article goes on to say:

From an investment standpoint, big pay for the chief is no guarantee of a big payout for the shareholder.

Between 1991 and 2004, the stock of the previous year's most highly paid CEO underperformed the S&P 500 half the time, in some instances by a stunning amount.

The most glaring example was Computer Associates. In 1999, the company paid its CEO $655 million as part of his share of a $1.1 billion stock bonus for the company's three top officers. In 2000, the stock plummeted 72 percent, while the S&P 500 fell 10 percent.

I'm also reminded of Carli Fioni, formerly of HP. Their stock tanked, tens of thousands of jobs went overseas, and she walked away with hundreds of millions of dollars.

Text

Lets us some critical thinking. What happened in 1999. THE TECH BUBBLE BURST. Of course the stocks of computer associates, a tech company, would fall.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87
Complain to the boards of these companies or better yet dont buy their stock.

The owners of the company obviously arent worried about it so why are you?

Because their employees live in my community and when they lose their job due to this greed and idiocy, I'm affected.

I do complain to the board members, but its a big rich boys' club - you know, "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" - and I don't have the kind of cash to get their ear.

Business's arent entitlement programs. Their sole purpose is to create wealth and profit for the owners(shareholders).

If the shareholders(owners) are fine with the CEO being compensated the way he\she is then why do you care other than to piss and moan about greed?

Unfortunately stockholders aren't always happy with the CEO, but the BoD just ignores them. Just look at Disney. Michael Ovitz was at Disney for about 14 months, and made off with roughly 140M. Shareholders sued. The case was dismissed, with the judge stating that when Eisner hired his buddy to the tune of 10M per month it was thought to be in the best interest of the company. To that I say

BULL. FVCKING. SH!T.

The reputation of honest capitalists is being dragged through the mud by these crooks, and even the judiciary doesn't seem to give a flying fvck.

Here's one link, but you can probably find hundreds of other stories on the matter

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Oh, and the haves do not have to be business owners. You can do quite well with hard work, a decent education, decent job and good fiscal responsiblity including investing, debt management. Remember, far more new businesses fail than survive, so owning a business doesn't mean squat "until" you succeed.

That may be true, but the "haves" who are successul without owning a business are solely dependent on those that do own businesses. Hating the business owner is self-defeating. Without business owners, we'd all be subsistence farmers.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

So, you admit that starting and maintaining a successful business is extremely difficult to do, yet in the same breath, you whine and complain about the few individuals who do so and the rate at which they are compensated? And since when does "not hating nor being envious of the wealthy" == "worship the rich?"

Your initial premise is severely flawed, as well as your supporting "arguments." Where's conjur and his wahmbulance when you need him?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Ahh, the cry of the P&N elitist! Do you have any clue how hard it is to start your own successful business or to pay for private health insurance? Do you run your own business or do you still live at your parents house?

So, you admit that starting and maintaining a successful business is extremely difficult to do, yet in the same breath, you whine and complain about the few individuals who do so and the rate at which they are compensated? And since when does "not hating nor being envious of the wealthy" == "worship the rich?"

Your initial premise is severely flawed, as well as your supporting "arguments." Where's conjur and his wahmbulance when you need him?

Heh, even you have to admit that a lot of the times a CEO's paycheck doesn't have to do with the business's success.