Autoworkers: 'If we go down, so does this town'

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Just trying to emphasize the human aspect to the story. But I've got it - really.

Pension plans are bad. The union was really, really bad to ask for them. The company and the BoD have no blame in the situation - got it.

The jobs bank is gone. But we can't let go of the past - OK. The union was bad to ask for it and the company and the BoD can be held blameless - got it.

Shutting down plants and the workers collect unemployment. The union was bad to ask for SUB pay, (you should look into how that is funded, BTW) but the company and the BoD are not responsible for that - got it. Now don't tell me that you resent laid off workers getting unemployment - do you? How about laid off salaried workers collecting unemployment, is that OK?

Obama fired Wagoner and he's pulling in a pension of $20.2 million while now contributing nothing to the company. I imagine this is good - right? Under your reasoning, he and his predecessors are not responsible for anything that negatively affected the company because that damned union is the root of all that is evil.

It's a pretty neat and tidy package. Workers = bad. Management = good.

Bah, I think you just hate the unions. And the workers, and their cars, and the loans. You've found someone convenient to blame and it fits your persona. I guess we're all guilty of that to one degree or another.

I had tunnel vision when I was a young guy. My line of reasoning was the only one that made any fucking sense at all. I scoffed at people down on their luck. People that made what ultimately ended up being bad decisions. My hindsight was 20/20 and the only thing that made any sense anyway.

Decades of being on this earth has taught me far more compassion than I ever would have thought possible when I was in my late teens and early twenties. I left behind thoughts that revolve around 'that's what they deserve' a long time ago.

It too bad that you can't see that costs associated with these demands is what is putting the big 3 out of business...instead of reaching agreements that were mutually beneficial for the workers and the company, they demanded these 'benefits' and didn't give a damn about the costs would be passed along to consumers. And if they didn't get what they wanted, they would strike. Yup, we definitely need to have compassion for these people...

 

[Mxylplyx]

The gravy train is fun until it runs out of track. I feel bad for any worker to who ends up riding it until the end, but that is just life. I dont begrudge any individual worker who takes a union job and enjoys it's benefits, but doing so gives them a warped sense of economic reality, and they eventually believe that those cushy benefits are a god given right. I'm sure this feeling prevails in these towns that are built around an auto industry and feels perfectly normal, but for those of us who have not grown up around manufacturing based economies are dumbfounded by the warped economic realities that exist in these places. The agreements some of these unions have extracted from their employers, often under the threat of strike and work slowdowns, which carry great weight when these companies are producing at capacity, are unsustainable, and any objective person knows this, or anyone who has been watching the news.

The whole union/management paradigm that exists in these union shops baffles me. How can a company maintain efficient operations if a worker feels accountable to people other than their managers? In short, they cant. If a company is in trouble and they need to quickly wind down inefficient or non cost effective operations, then people just have to get axed, and I've been one of them. If a company cant be nimble, they will eventually fail, and many union agreemens certainly dont allow a company to be nimble.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: TheoPetro

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
This evenings disclosure about Treasurys bk plan for Chrysler should bring a sigh of relief for the UAW and workers. It appears they have clearly signaled that they will protect workers, and even retiree's bennies through the bk process putting them ahead of even the secured debt holders. And gives a strong indication that they will do the same in GM's case.

On the others hand this is bad for bondholders and catostrophic for stakeholders who will be comletely wiped out. I expect GM's stock to drop off the map starting tomorrow

That is absolutely RETARDED. Who the fuck is going to want to lend to that industry when youre told that basically some subcontractor's retirement plan is put ahead of your claim on a physical asset. Fucking retarded.

Yeah,
big 1.5 (or whatever they're considered) cost of capital via debt just skyrocketed. Bad policy, whoever thought that up (dems im sure) doesn't have enough of finance to realize the effects of this.

First I've heard of this. Last I heard FIAT was demanding concessions from the union.

If the gov takes Chrysler through bankruptcy this way I predict the only loans they'll get are from our gov; another bailout. Good money after bad I'm afraid to say.

Another expensive short-term bandiad that really does no one any good, particlularly the auto workers.

And no one should say any thing of 'partnership', the shareholders, debt holders and taxpayers will bent over while the unions get their political payback.

Fern

 

[boomerang]

Well this should brighten up everyone's day.

Treasury lends $2 billion more to General Motors

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Well this should brighten up everyone's day.

Treasury lends $2 billion more to General Motors

pouring more money down the drain.... :disgust:

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: boomerang
Well this should brighten up everyone's day.

Treasury lends $2 billion more to General Motors

pouring more money down the drain.... :disgust:

Yep, gotta keep those valuable voters on the dole as long as possible.