Autospy finds Terri Schiavo not subject to trauma, brain 1/2 normal size at death

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: PELarson
Not one of your top 10000 sites but an interesting read.

I dunno. I always get a kick out if it when liberals link to the world socialist website for editorials

You probably get a kick out of pulling the wings off of Flies.

Actually I think thats more like the fly pulling its own wings off.

Good morning red, how ya doin ?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
They don't believe in science, so autopsies mean nothing to those people.

Science had nothing to do with it in the first place. They wanted to make political gain on the idea that government was going to euthanize an individual against the parents' wishes. They picked the wrong case.

My feelings on the issue are simple. Government (state and federal) should not have been involved in any aspect of this case. If the parents wanted her kept alive so badly, they should have footed the medical bills. That the People of the State of Florida were footing the bill put them in control, and they did as they saw best.

It wasn't about money either. It was about the right of a husband, who had fully legal authority of her healthcare decisions, to decide her fate, so to speak. It was argued and declared valid in court that she wanted to die if something like this ever happened. I feel for her parents, but their denial only cost their daughter dignity in her death. And what Congress and the President did was even more disgusting.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: PELarson
Not one of your top 10000 sites but an interesting read.

I dunno. I always get a kick out if it when liberals link to the world socialist website for editorials

If you believe that a brain-dead individual should be kept alive indefinitely on the public dime, then you are a socialist as well.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
The one thing that came out of this autopsy is this:

Her parents, lawyers, appointed shill doctors all LIED bold faced about her condition to the Media and to the American Public for months.

Why isn't anyone going after these people for the money they cost the taxpayers of Florida? This woman could OBVIOUSLY not speak, like her parents claimed. She could not see, like her parents claimed. She could not swallow food on her own, like her parents claimed. They need to be held accountable for the lies they told. If the runaway bride has to pay for lying, why are these people exempt?

what taxpayer money? court costs? the malpractice settlement they won years ago from a misdiagnosis of her bulemia paid for the invalid care.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Perhaps the GOP can find another brain dead lady to dry-hump for political gain. Why stop at Terri?

Nancy Pelosi?

How about Pickles?

Ack, ya got me. I'm still waiting for caffiene to kick in. Help me out here? What are pickels in reference to?

wasnt pickles the chicks husband on Dick van ***?
never saw him, always just heard about him.
i seriously doubt that has anything to do with the conversation.

on topic:
frist is an idiot.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: beer
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nationa...a8f14a66f71b26db&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: June 15, 2005

LARGO, Fla. (AP) -- Terri Schiavo did not suffer any trauma prior to her 1990 collapse and her brain was about half of normal size when she died, according to results released Wednesday of an autopsy conducted on the severely brain-damaged woman.

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack.

When she was alive, every credible, neutral doctor (in other words, appointed by the government and not funded by her parents) found that she was braindead. Post-mortem, these doctors were vindicated by the autopy; furthermore, it also refutes her parent's claims that her husband beat her.

The question is...what more will it take, why does the Religious Right keep on arguing their case? And note...I said 'Religious Right' and not 'Right' because a true conservative would respect the state's decision and not bring federal courts into state matters.

actually, all of them found her in a persistent vegetative state, not brain dead. the article even says that.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
The one thing that came out of this autopsy is this:

Her parents, lawyers, appointed shill doctors all LIED bold faced about her condition to the Media and to the American Public for months.

Why isn't anyone going after these people for the money they cost the taxpayers of Florida? This woman could OBVIOUSLY not speak, like her parents claimed. She could not see, like her parents claimed. She could not swallow food on her own, like her parents claimed. They need to be held accountable for the lies they told. If the runaway bride has to pay for lying, why are these people exempt?

If it were my child and I believed ( however misguided ) there were a chance my child would recover I think I would lie also. I do not excuse her family but I understand.

As for the whole case I wish I hadnt posted in this thread because honestly I really didnt care about the whole fiasco. Both sides on this issue made me sick with thier rhetoric and political posturing.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: umbrella39
The one thing that came out of this autopsy is this:

Her parents, lawyers, appointed shill doctors all LIED bold faced about her condition to the Media and to the American Public for months.

Why isn't anyone going after these people for the money they cost the taxpayers of Florida? This woman could OBVIOUSLY not speak, like her parents claimed. She could not see, like her parents claimed. She could not swallow food on her own, like her parents claimed. They need to be held accountable for the lies they told. If the runaway bride has to pay for lying, why are these people exempt?

If it were my child and I believed ( however misguided ) there were a chance my child would recover I think I would lie also. I do not excuse her family but I understand.

As for the whole case I wish I hadnt posted in this thread because honestly I really didnt care about the whole fiasco. Both sides on this issue made me sick with thier rhetoric and political posturing.

I'm sorry, this issue was made, pushed and shoved down the throats of the public by the Republicans in Congress and the religious right. Can't push this off as "the Dems are at fault too".

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: umbrella39
The one thing that came out of this autopsy is this:

Her parents, lawyers, appointed shill doctors all LIED bold faced about her condition to the Media and to the American Public for months.

Why isn't anyone going after these people for the money they cost the taxpayers of Florida? This woman could OBVIOUSLY not speak, like her parents claimed. She could not see, like her parents claimed. She could not swallow food on her own, like her parents claimed. They need to be held accountable for the lies they told. If the runaway bride has to pay for lying, why are these people exempt?

If it were my child and I believed ( however misguided ) there were a chance my child would recover I think I would lie also. I do not excuse her family but I understand.

As for the whole case I wish I hadnt posted in this thread because honestly I really didnt care about the whole fiasco. Both sides on this issue made me sick with thier rhetoric and political posturing.

I'm sorry, this issue was made, pushed and shoved down the throats of the public by the Republicans in Congress and the religious right. Can't push this off as "the Dems are at fault too".

Point.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: umbrella39
The one thing that came out of this autopsy is this:

Her parents, lawyers, appointed shill doctors all LIED bold faced about her condition to the Media and to the American Public for months.

Why isn't anyone going after these people for the money they cost the taxpayers of Florida? This woman could OBVIOUSLY not speak, like her parents claimed. She could not see, like her parents claimed. She could not swallow food on her own, like her parents claimed. They need to be held accountable for the lies they told. If the runaway bride has to pay for lying, why are these people exempt?

what taxpayer money? court costs? the malpractice settlement they won years ago from a misdiagnosis of her bulemia paid for the invalid care.

Tax payer money in the form of police presence outside her room for what, 5-8 weeks? I don't remember how long the circus went on. That cost money and we paid for it. Well, I don't live in Florida but they paid for it.

Edit: Oh and I am sure we all footed the bill for the emergency Sunday meeting when all the congressmen flew back to DC to try and stuck their noses into this case.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: umbrella39
The one thing that came out of this autopsy is this:

Her parents, lawyers, appointed shill doctors all LIED bold faced about her condition to the Media and to the American Public for months.

Why isn't anyone going after these people for the money they cost the taxpayers of Florida? This woman could OBVIOUSLY not speak, like her parents claimed. She could not see, like her parents claimed. She could not swallow food on her own, like her parents claimed. They need to be held accountable for the lies they told. If the runaway bride has to pay for lying, why are these people exempt?

what taxpayer money? court costs? the malpractice settlement they won years ago from a misdiagnosis of her bulemia paid for the invalid care.

That money had run out in (IIRC) 1998, and Terry had been a ward of the State of Florida ever since.

 

[Bumrush99]

Where is Riporin? I can't wait to see his justifications.

 

[shurato]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: NJDevil
I'm waiting for how the bastards that demonized her husband will respond to this ... Don't you guys think they should apologize?

Didnt her husband get a woman pregnant just months after the incident that caused the brain damage?

No need to demonize him I think.

Didn't the dumb b!tch do this to herself because she puked her food out to stay skinny?
So whats your damn point about the husband and why does it matter to what the OP is saying which is basically she in fact was brain dead...well duhhhh. Do all you repugs take a course in Diversionary Tactics 101?

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: umbrella39
The one thing that came out of this autopsy is this:

Her parents, lawyers, appointed shill doctors all LIED bold faced about her condition to the Media and to the American Public for months.

Why isn't anyone going after these people for the money they cost the taxpayers of Florida? This woman could OBVIOUSLY not speak, like her parents claimed. She could not see, like her parents claimed. She could not swallow food on her own, like her parents claimed. They need to be held accountable for the lies they told. If the runaway bride has to pay for lying, why are these people exempt?

what taxpayer money? court costs? the malpractice settlement they won years ago from a misdiagnosis of her bulemia paid for the invalid care.

That money had run out in (IIRC) 1998, and Terry had been a ward of the State of Florida ever since.

IIRC, the money were in trustfund in her name, it couldn't be touched unless she either woke-up or after her passing her husband would get it. I may be mistaking, but I believe that's how it was.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Where is Riporin? I can't wait to see his justifications.

Braindead people have souls too!

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Where is Riporin? I can't wait to see his justifications.

He's just jealous that she had a more functional brain then he has now.

 

[Isla]

Parents in denial are capable of just about anything.

I know of a case in which the parents of 2 severely mentally and physically handicapped children (the result of fertility treatments and an attempt to have FIVE children at once) are about to sue county, state, and everyone else they can think of for their children's lack of 'progress'. As far as they are concerned, every educational specialist in TWO different counties are wrong and incompetent, because they don't agree with the parent's opinion that the children are 'higher functioning'.

The children are lovable and certainly deserve good care, but we are talking about human beings who mostly operate from the amygdala. Their brains are basically scrambled eggs and they have about all the potential of a potato. The parents believe that the reflexive actions the children make are intentional, but the children are very much like newborn babies and at 5 years of age now, that isn't likely to change. So, they need to blame someone... they couldn't possibly take responsbility for their children's condition themselves.

Why doesn't the "life is precious" cause of the religious right focus on whether or not people should be able to 'play God' and create nightmare multiple birth situations.... which then end up creating severely handicapped children and burdening society. It seems like a hideous hypocrisy to me.

 

[40Hands]

Originally posted by: Isla
Parents in denial are capable of just about anything.

I know of a case in which the parents of 2 severely mentally and physically handicapped children (the result of fertility treatments and an attempt to have FIVE children at once) are about to sue county, state, and everyone else they can think of for their children's lack of 'progress'. As far as they are concerned, every educational specialist in TWO different counties are wrong and incompetent, because they don't agree with the parent's opinion that the children are 'higher functioning'.

The children are lovable and certainly deserve good care, but we are talking about human beings who mostly operate from the amygdala. Their brains are basically scrambled eggs and they have about all the potential of a potato. The parents believe that the reflexive actions the children make are intentional, but the children are very much like newborn babies and at 5 years of age now, that isn't likely to change. So, they need to blame someone... they couldn't possibly take responsbility for their children's condition themselves.

Why doesn't the "life is precious" cause of the religious right focus on whether or not people should be able to 'play God' and create nightmare multiple birth situations.... which then end up creating severely handicapped children and burdening society. It seems like a hideous hypocrisy to me.

Thats because it is.

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: Isla
Parents in denial are capable of just about anything.

I know of a case in which the parents of 2 severely mentally and physically handicapped children (the result of fertility treatments and an attempt to have FIVE children at once) are about to sue county, state, and everyone else they can think of for their children's lack of 'progress'. As far as they are concerned, every educational specialist in TWO different counties are wrong and incompetent, because they don't agree with the parent's opinion that the children are 'higher functioning'.

The children are lovable and certainly deserve good care, but we are talking about human beings who mostly operate from the amygdala. Their brains are basically scrambled eggs and they have about all the potential of a potato. The parents believe that the reflexive actions the children make are intentional, but the children are very much like newborn babies and at 5 years of age now, that isn't likely to change. So, they need to blame someone... they couldn't possibly take responsbility for their children's condition themselves.

Why doesn't the "life is precious" cause of the religious right focus on whether or not people should be able to 'play God' and create nightmare multiple birth situations.... which then end up creating severely handicapped children and burdening society. It seems like a hideous hypocrisy to me.

Yeah, I know. I know of a patient right now that has a huge 6 cm around gaping wound on his left leg that is infected and just getting worse.

He has diabetes and doesn't do anything to try and make it better. Doesn't eat well, doesn't take his insulin, doesn't check his blood sugar, and now he has obvious left leg diabetic neuropathy (the nerves in his left leg are dead).

And yet he blames us for his problems. In another 2 - 3 months he will need an amputation. And if he simply stopped drinking soda and gave himself insulin he would be completely healthy.

But yet it is all our fault that his leg is dying...

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople


Yeah, I know. I know of a patient right now that has a huge 6 cm around gaping wound on his left leg that is infected and just getting worse.

He has diabetes and doesn't do anything to try and make it better. Doesn't eat well, doesn't take his insulin, doesn't check his blood sugar, and now he has obvious left leg diabetic neuropathy (the nerves in his left leg are dead).

And yet he blames us for his problems. In another 2 - 3 months he will need an amputation. And if he simply stopped drinking soda and gave himself insulin he would be completely healthy.

But yet it is all our fault that his leg is dying...

Ah, so you know about the 'blame game'... makes it hard to want to help people who don't appreciate anything and who are in denial about their reality.

I feel for all of you out there in the medical professions. It's not pretty and you have people threatening your credentials/licensing all the time!

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: Isla

Originally posted by: ForThePeople


Yeah, I know. I know of a patient right now that has a huge 6 cm around gaping wound on his left leg that is infected and just getting worse.

He has diabetes and doesn't do anything to try and make it better. Doesn't eat well, doesn't take his insulin, doesn't check his blood sugar, and now he has obvious left leg diabetic neuropathy (the nerves in his left leg are dead).

And yet he blames us for his problems. In another 2 - 3 months he will need an amputation. And if he simply stopped drinking soda and gave himself insulin he would be completely healthy.

But yet it is all our fault that his leg is dying...

Ah, so you know about the 'blame game'... makes it hard to want to help people who don't appreciate anything and who are in denial about their reality.

I feel for all of you out there in the medical professions. It's not pretty and you have people threatening your credentials/licensing all the time!

Yeah, the worst are really the idiots who try to question everything. I don't mind people with true curiosity who want to learn more - I love that, and wish all my patients were like that - but rather the guy who barely finished high school and yet wants to go toe to toe with you on medical issues, as if his opinion were equal to yours.

Which is basically the entire Schiavo case. You have a stack of MDs like me (I'm in med school), with our experience and training, and a stack of x-rays, CTs, etc, and a physical and mere observation on the one hand and then you have Rip screaming about how horrible it is to die of thirst.

But if you can't feel anything (and she couldn't, her brain was too atrophied) then you can't experience pain and you can't die horribly of thirst.

And now it turns out she was blind (the part of her brain that allows you to see was liquified and basically melted away) so it was complete BS that she could follow a balloon. And the same with the nerves that control swallowing so she couldn't swallow. Basically we were right and they were wrong, and we knew we were right because we use science and not pre-ordained by faith conclusions.

We're doctors for a reason and we're damn good. Stop picking fights and exposing your ignorance. Same with my patient and his infected leg.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Where is Riporin? I can't wait to see his justifications.

I'd like to hear from all of those that swore the videos of Terri were real.

They were specially selected moments of random movements and sounds.

Based on this all the Halloween decorations that respond to motion, sound, light etc must be fully functional people with souls too.

 

[joshw10]

Does anyone remember the parent's demonstration about how Terri followed a balloon with her eyes around the room?

Autopsy says she was blind....oops!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Where is Riporin? I can't wait to see his justifications.

I'd like to hear from all of those that swore the videos of Terri were real.

They were specially selected moments of random movements and sounds.

Based on this all the Halloween decorations that respond to motion, sound, light etc must be fully functional people with souls too.

Originally posted by: joshw10
Does anyone remember the parent's demonstration about how Terri followed a balloon with her eyes around the room?

Autopsy says she was blind....oops!

That's what I was talking about.

It is quite evident her body was responding to either sound or sense (sounded like someone was blowing on her, most likely her mother) during the taping of the video.

 

[KK]

I wish folks would think logically instead of relying on damn fake religion to base their opinions. Lets not forget that it just wasn't the religous nutjobs of the republican wanting to keep this body alive, it was that nutjob jesse jackson too.