Autonomous Quebec within Canada

[RabidMongoose]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com...0923/BNStory/National/

ADQ wants an autonomous Quebec within Canada

By MARTIN OUELLET
Canadian Press

Quebec ? The Action démocratique du Québec wants the province to become an autonomous state within Canada with its own constitution and sole power to collect taxes.

Leader Mario Dumont unveiled the proposal Thursday in advance of an ADQ policy meeting this weekend.

The document contains many recommendations of the Allaire report of the 1990s, which the provincial Liberals commissioned and then shelved as being too ambitious.

Mr. Dumont told a news conference the policy paper corrects past errors and clarifies the ADQ's vision for the future of Quebec.

The party is acting ?on a strong position, where there is no split or submission to the Canada of 1982,? he said, referring to the Constitution which Quebec has never signed.

Mr. Dumont said autonomy is the only solution, adding the sovereignty option of the Parti Québécois and the federalist stance of the Quebec Liberal party are not options.

?The PQ is feeding off the failure of the system while the Liberals present the status quo as a triumph,? Mr. Dumont said. ?The autonomous route can get more than that.?

Under the plan, Quebec would have full control over areas under its jurisdiction and, after negotiations with the federal government, the sole power to collect taxes from Quebeckers.

Mr. Dumont said Quebec would also not be reluctant to act unilaterally, such as in giving Hydro-Québec the green light to proceed with projects that haven't been approved federally.

?We are convinced Quebec has an environmental evaluation process that is legitimate and respectful of international standards,? he said.

A Quebec constitution would comprise the provincial Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Charter of the French Language and a section about citizens' responsibilities.

The proposal did not draw much reaction from the other parties.

Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Benoit Pelletier said the provincial government has the job of defining Quebec and the proposal does little to clarify where the ADQ stands.

?All they've said is they're not sovereigntists, they're not federalists,? he said. ?It's not a thoughtful position.?

Diane Lémieux, a spokeswoman for the PQ, said the ADQ is just recycling old ideas.

?They're trying to sell a dream,? she said.

Canada seems to have some severe identity issues within some of its own provinces. This is a strange proposal here. I wonder what would happen if Quebec really did separate..would be a strange situation.

What do you guys think about this?

 

[daveshel]

Kinda like California, eh?

 

[arsbanned]

They've been talking about such a possibility for years.

 

[CycloWizard]

Most of the Canadians I know say that Quebec is a freeloading province anyway - that they take much more than they give to Canada as a whole, so they would not be terribly opposed to seeing them go.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
They've been talking about such a possibility for years.

Well complete separation...

 

[sandorski]

To a certain extent Quebec is already Autonomous and has been since Confederation. Though certainly not as much as the article proposes. Quebec uses the same type of Legal System as France(don't recall the name) while the rest of Canada uses the British System. Quebec has its' own Pension system, uses French as its' primary language, and other things are done that differentiate Quebec from the rest of the country. I think eventually Quebec and the rest of Canada may very well become like the EU, 2 States within 1 Jurisdiction(looking for other term that eludes me) with each State having certain Autonomy concerning certain issues.

It's not an Identity issue though, it has always been like this and will continue to be. When it comes to Identity issues, Quebec pretty much has no issue with Indentity, while the rest of Canada(often referred to as English Canada) does seem to struggle somewhat in that department, though it isn't because of Quebec, but the US influence. The situation outside of Quebec has been changing for Decades though, partially due to the Constitution written in the early 1980s, but also due to a Policy of Multiculturalism(as opposed to the US "Melting Pot"). English Canada is developing a very loose identity often around very generic Principles such as Universal Healthcare, Hockey, and other widely accepted Cultural Icons. Religious, Political, Economic, and other identities are much less part of Canada's Identity than they are/were for other Societies, which IMO makes Canada very Flexible and more willing to try different things in order to accomplish a Goal.

That said, Canada is a Free-Trade Capitalism with Progressive Social Policy(Mixed economy), a British style Representative Parliament, and values Freedom/Liberty.

 

[arsbanned]

Point taken, I now see the distinction.

 

[RabidMongoose]

It's not an Identity issue though

Maybe 'Identity' was the wrong word, but it seems that there are problems pertaining to Quebec and to a lesser extent in other provinces with associating with Canada as a whole. It's really strange.

Canada should not tolerate this nonsense.

 

[schmedy]

Yea we don't see enough of them in VT as it is, we need a bigger wall, lol.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

It's not an Identity issue though

Maybe 'Identity' was the wrong word, but it seems that there are problems pertaining to Quebec and to a lesser extent in other provinces with associating with Canada as a whole. It's really strange.

Canada should not tolerate this nonsense.

It is "strange", but the problem is that it is not nonsense. This is a result of pushing through the Constitution without Quebec agreeing to it, though Quebec separation existed prior to that. I wouldn't object to scrapping the Constitution entirely and starting over or just winging it(which is what is happening concerning Quebec anyway). I'm sure I'm in the minority here(Canada), but I have no problem with a 2 State 1 Jurisdiction(there's probably a better term for this) EU style setup, but as for "not tolerating" it that's not going to happen. The idea of Civil War(I don't understand how any Democracy can resort to Civil War, it is Counter-Intuitive) has no attraction to Canadians, we are a "Live and Let Live" society(something really nasty would have to happen to change this). Quebec has a Right to Self-Determination and if they choose to Separate the biggest issues will concern divying up Assets(who gets the tank? 😀 ).

Concerning Quebec Autonomy though, it is very likely that eventually all Provinces will be given equal Autonomy as Quebec gets, just to create an Equity amongst all. Canada has always been a more De-Centralized Nation than most others and I think increased De-Centralization is inevitable in the not to distant Future. Annually the 10 Provincial Premiers get together to discuss pressing issues and most of the time the Prime Minister has to Deal with the issues raised and sometimes actually negotiate to settle an issue(just finished one of these Conferences and the PM had to negotiate a change to the Health Care funding issue(s)).

 

[RabidMongoose]

I don't think a civil war is attractive to anybody.

I wonder what would happen if Quebec separates from Canada...would Alberta be next? Maybe it'll eventually split into several different countries.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I don't think a civil war is attractive to anybody.

I wonder what would happen if Quebec separates from Canada...would Alberta be next? Maybe it'll eventually split into several different countries.

Possibly, though I think Alberta could possibly separate first. There's a small separation group in Alberta. Though it is rather small Alberta has been increasingly showing signs of discontent for a couple decades now.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I don't think a civil war is attractive to anybody.

I wonder what would happen if Quebec separates from Canada...would Alberta be next? Maybe it'll eventually split into several different countries.

If there was a civil war who would get the tank?

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I don't think a civil war is attractive to anybody.

I wonder what would happen if Quebec separates from Canada...would Alberta be next? Maybe it'll eventually split into several different countries.

If there was a civil war who would get the tank?

They'd get the tank, we'd get the leaky sub.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Most of the Canadians I know say that Quebec is a freeloading province anyway - that they take much more than they give to Canada as a whole, so they would not be terribly opposed to seeing them go.

Most of the Canadians you know are a little out of touch.

Quebec receives more federal transfer payments (i.e. out of federal income taxes) than it contributes. This is not the same things as not contributing to the economy of the country.

I for one would rather Quebec not separate.

 

[AntiEverything]

Damn Canucks are going to force me to buy new maps.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
http://www.theglobeandmail.com...0923/BNStory/National/

ADQ wants an autonomous Quebec within Canada

By MARTIN OUELLET
Canadian Press

Quebec ? The Action démocratique du Québec wants the province to become an autonomous state within Canada with its own constitution and sole power to collect taxes.

Leader Mario Dumont unveiled the proposal Thursday in advance of an ADQ policy meeting this weekend.

The document contains many recommendations of the Allaire report of the 1990s, which the provincial Liberals commissioned and then shelved as being too ambitious.

Mr. Dumont told a news conference the policy paper corrects past errors and clarifies the ADQ's vision for the future of Quebec.

The party is acting ?on a strong position, where there is no split or submission to the Canada of 1982,? he said, referring to the Constitution which Quebec has never signed.

Mr. Dumont said autonomy is the only solution, adding the sovereignty option of the Parti Québécois and the federalist stance of the Quebec Liberal party are not options.

?The PQ is feeding off the failure of the system while the Liberals present the status quo as a triumph,? Mr. Dumont said. ?The autonomous route can get more than that.?

Under the plan, Quebec would have full control over areas under its jurisdiction and, after negotiations with the federal government, the sole power to collect taxes from Quebeckers.

Mr. Dumont said Quebec would also not be reluctant to act unilaterally, such as in giving Hydro-Québec the green light to proceed with projects that haven't been approved federally.

?We are convinced Quebec has an environmental evaluation process that is legitimate and respectful of international standards,? he said.

A Quebec constitution would comprise the provincial Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Charter of the French Language and a section about citizens' responsibilities.

The proposal did not draw much reaction from the other parties.

Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Benoit Pelletier said the provincial government has the job of defining Quebec and the proposal does little to clarify where the ADQ stands.

?All they've said is they're not sovereigntists, they're not federalists,? he said. ?It's not a thoughtful position.?

Diane Lémieux, a spokeswoman for the PQ, said the ADQ is just recycling old ideas.

?They're trying to sell a dream,? she said.

Canada seems to have some severe identity issues within some of its own provinces. This is a strange proposal here. I wonder what would happen if Quebec really did separate..would be a strange situation.

What do you guys think about this?

I'm sure the Bush admin would happily bomb them into complacency

 

[AntiEverything]

Originally posted by: rickn
I'm sure the Bush admin would happily bomb them into complacency

And if a stray missile hit your house, at least we wouldn't have to endure off topic political debate in a thread which has nothing to do with Bush/Kerry.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: AntiEverything

Originally posted by: rickn
I'm sure the Bush admin would happily bomb them into complacency

And if a stray missile hit your house, at least we wouldn't have to endure off topic political debate in a thread which has nothing to do with Bush/Kerry.

quebec to florida. long stretch there.

 

[AntiEverything]

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: AntiEverything

Originally posted by: rickn
I'm sure the Bush admin would happily bomb them into complacency

And if a stray missile hit your house, at least we wouldn't have to endure off topic political debate in a thread which has nothing to do with Bush/Kerry.

quebec to florida. long stretch there.

We can all dream.

 

[SickBeast]

I'm a firm believer in decentralizing the Canadian federal government and giving *all* provinces more control over their own affairs. Our nation is massive, and there are diverse issues in every province.

The Quebec issue hits home for me; half of my family lives there and I'm well aware of the separation issues. As far as I'm concerned, protecting the Quebequois culture is extremely important, and if that means letting them control their own affairs, then so be it.

I'm not very familiar with what the OP posted, but from the sounds of it it's a decent compromise.

For the record, Quebec is not a "freeloading" province. Quebec, Ontario, BC, and Alberta basically drive the entire economic engine of Canada. They have a bad reputation because they're constantly nagging the feds for just about everything. Most of the time it's not monetary; it's simply that they want more control over the province and how it is governed.

IMO if they vote over 50% in a referendum to seperate, the feds should just let them go. Attitudes like that are counterproductive.