I actually get much better gas mileage than EPA ratings on my car, rated at 22 city get over 27 city on a Scion TC.
Note to people not getting the EPA numbers......quit flooring the accelerator when taking off!!!!! That sucks gas a LOT.
From my experience my:
99 Silverado 4x4 Pickup 5.3l auto gets about 16 mpg w/ my driving habits. www.fueleconomy.gov lists it at 15-18, 16 mpg combine.
94 Grand Cherokee 4x4 4.0l auto gets about 18 mpg w/ my driving habits. www.fueleconomy.gov lists it at 15-20, 17 mpg combine.
Close enough not to exhibit a massive deviation as CS seems to state.
99 Silverado 4x4 Pickup 5.3l auto gets about 16 mpg w/ my driving habits. www.fueleconomy.gov lists it at 15-18, 16 mpg combine.
94 Grand Cherokee 4x4 4.0l auto gets about 18 mpg w/ my driving habits. www.fueleconomy.gov lists it at 15-20, 17 mpg combine.
Close enough not to exhibit a massive deviation as CS seems to state.
Triumph
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 15,031
- 14
- 81
Automakers don't exaggerate mileage. The EPA outlines a test profile, performed on a dynamometer (not the kind you're thinking of), which runs the car through different accelerations and speeds for different lengths of time. This profile is the same for every car. The automakers are just doing what they're told, and as long as they're all following the rules, the results should be directly comparable across brands. Your thread title is misleading.
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
My Civic disagrees with your pessimistic rating of econoboxes (3000rpm @ 70mph, high-40's in mpg) - mind you, it's a lot more aerodynamic compared to the rolling refridgerator you used as an example.
- M4H
Nice, right on key.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Dave IS a moron. They need to lock him in a padded cell. He and the OP are so quick to blame the "evil" automakers for exaggeraing mileage when the automakers have nothing to do with the situation. The EPA determines the gas mileage numbers that go on the Monroney. So if anyone is lying to the public, it is the government.
Regardless, my car gets right on the sticker mileage, even though it is modded and my right foot is a brick loaded with lead weights. The real issue here is not the SUV's, but the hybrids, which are a marketing scam of the first order. And that the Consumers Union is a terribly biased and unrealible organization. If they tested a Honda and a Chevy, and the Honda exploded killing the testers while the Chevy drove flawlessly, CR would still recommend that people buy the Honda. And they're not the only testing organization that would do this *cough* C&D *cough*
edit: to be fair to CR, they did not mislead in this article, Davey and the OP just can't read.
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
My Civic disagrees with your pessimistic rating of econoboxes (3000rpm @ 70mph, high-40's in mpg) - mind you, it's a lot more aerodynamic compared to the rolling refridgerator you used as an example.
- M4H
it's all in the gearing.
Soccerman06
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 5,830
- 5
- 81
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
My Civic disagrees with your pessimistic rating of econoboxes (3000rpm @ 70mph, high-40's in mpg) - mind you, it's a lot more aerodynamic compared to the rolling refridgerator you used as an example.
- M4H
Im not pessimistic, I just know from experience that people whine about not getting proper fuel economy they are missing some important details. The piece of paper on the side window in most cars for sale at dealers say in fine print, "mpg may vary up to 20% depending on the driving conditions and how you drive." I, like many others use to drive an econo car, when I was in high school, and know that their mpg can be true, and can be completely off with a heavy foot.
A good example of how EPA doesnt really tell the truth (or isnt accurate), the 05 Scion XB gets 35/38mpg city/hw. Now real world driving according to Car & Driver's long term article says the Scion gets 28mpg overall. Someone must be lying (or inaccurate)
Now I know there are good cars that get good mpg. You wouldnt think it, but my dad's work horse (04 Chevy 2500 HD Diesel) gets 12/21. Thats much better than the 12/18 that EPA says it gets. And that partially includes hauling 1000lb + of dirt, rock, and other construction supplies, and pulling a 4 ton trailer (all on one tank).
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
My Civic disagrees with your pessimistic rating of econoboxes (3000rpm @ 70mph, high-40's in mpg) - mind you, it's a lot more aerodynamic compared to the rolling refridgerator you used as an example.
- M4H
it's all in the gearing.
Yep. It's exactly why the Vette still gets decent highway numbers, despite having four times the power of my little import go-kart.
Edit - I'm not disagreeing with anyone. EPA numbers do not represent real-world mileage.
- M4H
Soccerman06
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 5,830
- 5
- 81
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
My Civic disagrees with your pessimistic rating of econoboxes (3000rpm @ 70mph, high-40's in mpg) - mind you, it's a lot more aerodynamic compared to the rolling refridgerator you used as an example.
- M4H
it's all in the gearing.
Ok, I also know it has a lot to do with gearing, but the Scion for example, has so little hp that anything below 3k rpm it just cant keep the vehicle moving, if at hw speeds. Sorry if Im trolling...
More sensationalist media B.S. An S2000 is rated 20/25, I average ~24mpg combined cycle, CR barely managed to get that from the hybrid they tested. Sounds like their method of testing is more flawed than that which is used to create the EPA numbers.
Reading further on, they actually got good numbers from the S2000, so who knows. I've never pulled numbers significantly different from EPA number from any vehicle though, usually my combined cycle number falls in between EPA city and highway estimates.
Reading further on, they actually got good numbers from the S2000, so who knows. I've never pulled numbers significantly different from EPA number from any vehicle though, usually my combined cycle number falls in between EPA city and highway estimates.
Soccerman06
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 5,830
- 5
- 81
You do know that cars dont have 100% power all the time right? ok good. Cars have a power curve. This is a basic generalization of some cars, starts off at 0 hp (off) 5-30hp at idle and low rpm (500-1500), 30-70hp at average speed (1500-3000), 70-100hp at passing/hard acceleration (3000-6000), and 100-132hp with pedal all the way down (6000-max rpm). This is was I believe a XB is at, please dont quote because Ill change it if its wrong, after I look at dyno, after class...
Ill try to a dyno of a Scion XB after class (got class in 10 min).
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
What does all this have to do with your claim that an xB cannot even MAINTAIN highway speeds in high gear even with the throttle wide open? That's what I find unbelievable.
Ryan
Lifer
- Oct 31, 2000
- 27,519
- 2
- 81
Soccerman06
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 5,830
- 5
- 81
Wow 110mph in the rain in a Scion XB.
The engine just does not have enough power to keep a 3000lb car moving at say 65mph at 3000 rpm. Cars need considerable power to move at 65mph, and the XB just doesnt have the proper gearing or power to achieve that specific load.
Anyways, I just wanted to show a rough example of how the engine power (at the crank) and rpms are related. I wanted to say how the engine performs under certain conditions, you can say the engine powerful enough to get you from A to B with decent mpg, but it doesnt have enough oomph for me.
This is how much hp/torque is created at the wheels of a Scion XB 5 speed manual. As you can see, there is little hp below 3000 rpm (less than 50). I dont remember any of my aerodynamic physics so I cant say how much power is required to keep the vechile moving at a constant speed, but its atleast 3500 70hp.
Ryan
Lifer
- Oct 31, 2000
- 27,519
- 2
- 81
Originally posted by: Soccerman06
Wow 110mph in the rain in a Scion XB.
The engine just does not have enough power to keep a 3000lb car moving at say 65mph at 3000 rpm. Cars need considerable power to move at 65mph, and the XB just doesnt have the proper gearing or power to achieve that specific load.
Anyways, I just wanted to show a rough example of how the engine power (at the crank) and rpms are related. I wanted to say how the engine performs under certain conditions, you can say the engine powerful enough to get you from A to B with decent mpg, but it doesnt have enough oomph for me.
This is how much hp/torque is created at the wheels of a Scion XB 5 speed manual. As you can see, there is little hp below 3000 rpm (less than 50). I dont remember any of my aerodynamic physics so I cant say how much power is required to keep the vechile moving at a constant speed, but its atleast 3500 70hp.
So you're telling me you have to be flooring it at 3500rpm just to maintain speed on the highway? I find that pretty hard to believe. BTW the xB is more like ~2400 lbs.
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
My Civic disagrees with your pessimistic rating of econoboxes (3000rpm @ 70mph, high-40's in mpg) - mind you, it's a lot more aerodynamic compared to the rolling refridgerator you used as an example.
- M4H
My 2005 Corolla S also begs to differ. My car doesn't break a sweat going 70MPH on the interstate. Even uphill. The hard part is usually holding the car back so I don't get a ticket. It's really easy to hit 80 without even thinking about it in my Corolla. And that's even with the overdrive engaged for maximum fuel economy. If I toggle the OD off, I've got even more power available for acceleration so I have no problem getting the car up to speed and merging on the interstate. I very rarely see the tach rev very high under normal driving circumstances.
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