Auto workers in TN vote to Unionize!

[nOOky]

The problems with unions has always been you have to take the bad with the good. The excessive union dues go along with the union protecting the perceived lazy or worthless workers right along with the excellent employees. The union can bargain with management, but isn't flexible enough when it needs to be say in an economic downturn. Management always screws the union and the employees at any opportunity because they challenge managements power and profits. Reference John Deere screwing it's employees for years and not increasing pay when profits did begin to soar, then threatening to move to China when the employees and union did something about it.

Ideally the union and management would exist in a harmonious relationship, management sharing the fruits of the employees labor with all employees, and employees and unions toughing it out when times are tough. And all workers are treated fairly, but evaluated on their individual merits when needed. But these days greed overrides profits being shared, it's all more more more.

 

[Meghan54]

Ju

The problems with unions has always been you have to take the bad with the good. The excessive union dues go along with the union protecting the perceived lazy or worthless workers right along with the excellent employees. The union can bargain with management, but isn't flexible enough when it needs to be say in an economic downturn. Management always screws the union and the employees at any opportunity because they challenge managements power and profits. Reference John Deere screwing it's employees for years and not increasing pay when profits did begin to soar, then threatening to move to China when the employees and union did something about it.

Ideally the union and management would exist in a harmonious relationship, management sharing the fruits of the employees labor with all employees, and employees and unions toughing it out when times are tough. And all workers are treated fairly, but evaluated on their individual merits when needed. But these days greed overrides profits being shared, it's all more more more.

Just curious about how high you believe union dues are, since you label them excessive?

Union dues explained

Dues are a regular payment from members that fund their union. They finance crucial union operations like contract negotiations and enforcement, organizing, and member-driven programs. It's one of the most common questions about unionizing so let's break down the basics.

guide.unitworkers.com

• The average annual cost of union dues is $400, or about two hours of pay per month.

What is the Cost of Unions? - Adams, Nash, Haskell and Sheridan

What is the Cost of Unions? From Adams, Nash, Haskell & Sheridan

anh.com

 

[sdifox]

Wait what? Average union pay is 200 per hour? Nevermind, 400 per year, not month.

Why change the unit. Just makes it confusing.

 

[nOOky]

Ju

Just curious about how high you believe union dues are, since you label them excessive?

Union dues explained

Dues are a regular payment from members that fund their union. They finance crucial union operations like contract negotiations and enforcement, organizing, and member-driven programs. It's one of the most common questions about unionizing so let's break down the basics.

guide.unitworkers.com

• The average annual cost of union dues is $400, or about two hours of pay per month.

What is the Cost of Unions? - Adams, Nash, Haskell and Sheridan

What is the Cost of Unions? From Adams, Nash, Haskell & Sheridan

anh.com

I wasn't calling the union dues excessive personally, I was listing the common stereotypes people have of unions in my first paragraph. I have actually been a union member many years ago, and these are the common perceptions of what the union does.

 

[BoomerD]

WhenI was a business agent for my union, I'd tell the non-union guys who objected to the idea of paying union dues..."The difference in hourly pay between what you're paid and what union hands get paid, plus the HUGE difference in fringe benefits...pension, health insurance, etc....I call that the non-union dues." At the time, there was between $5 and $10 per hour difference between the average non-union wage and union wage for the same job.

 

[Puffnstuff]

How long until VW automates as many jobs as possible to eliminate UAW influence at their facilities and recoup the increased cost of doing business?

 

[brycejones]

I wasn't calling the union dues excessive personally, I was listing the common stereotypes people have of unions in my first paragraph. I have actually been a union member many years ago, and these are the common perceptions of what the union does.

The propaganda put out by those opposed to unions as a fear tactic. We need to call what it is.

 

[skyking]

the same fear bullshit as used by fluffybrains above about automation. Get a fucking clue, automation is not a response to unions.
It is a logical technological advance. Those same machine lines will need people to function.

 

[brycejones]

How long until VW automates as many jobs as possible to eliminate UAW influence at their facilities and recoup the increased cost of doing business?

You do realize that the average car takes less than 30 hours to assemble with best in class being in the high teens right? Manufactures have aggressively automated assembly lines for decades now. The issue and why union efforts are taking off is in theory those productivity gains should show up in workers paychecks and they haven’t.

 

[brycejones]

the same fear bullshit as used by fluffybrains above about automation. Get a fucking clue, automation is not a response to unions.
It is a logical technological advance. Those same machine lines will need people to function.

It will most likely be another drive by post from that poster they hardly ever actually engage and defend their position with facts.

 

[Puffnstuff]

No company owes you a job and that's a fact.

 

[brycejones]

No company owes you a job so keep that in mind when you start down that road.

So I take it you have nothing to say about productivity gains and their relationship to workers wages and how that relationship has been broken for the last 40 years. Good to know.

Or another way to look at it. Even if workers increase their wages $10 an hour we are talking about an extra $180 to $300 per car.

Does that add a bit of perspective for you?

 

[skyking]

No company owes you a job and that's a fact.

It's a transaction, shit for brains. You do X they pay you Y.
Having an organization behind you for negotiations is smart.

 

[brycejones]

It's a transaction, shit for brains. You do X they pay you Y.
Having an organization behind you for negotiations is smart.

Puffy strikes me as the person who looks down on blue collar work and thinks those people should just barely scrape by.

 

[Puffnstuff]

VW plant closures and worker reductions underway. Same is happening to Stellantis plus suppliers such as Lear are automating to reduce employee overhead. Cause and effect is a real phenomena.

 

[Zorba]

VW plant closures and worker reductions underway. Same is happening to Stellantis plus suppliers such as Lear are automating to reduce employee overhead. Cause and effect is a real phenomena.

If automation made sense with the slightly higher pay rate, it would've made sense at the lower one too.

 

[IronWing]

No company owes you a job and that's a fact.

Companies aren't entitled to cheap labor and that is also a fact.

 

[Fenixgoon]

No company owes you a job and that's a fact.

No company is entitled to profits, and that's a fact.

 

[brycejones]

VW plant closures and worker reductions underway. Same is happening to Stellantis plus suppliers such as Lear are automating to reduce employee overhead. Cause and effect is a real phenomena.

You really need to show your work here. Stellantis is putting out shit products while investing billions in shit like Alfa that will never return a profit and therefore sales are plummeting. Why is that the worker's fault?

 

[brycejones]

If automation made sense with the slightly higher pay rate, it would've made sense at the lower one too.

Puffy is great at blaming workers for the failure of management to effectively run a company.

 

[Meghan54]

VW plant closures and worker reductions underway. Same is happening to Stellantis plus suppliers such as Lear are automating to reduce employee overhead. Cause and effect is a real phenomena.

About the VW closures, it’s said to be one car factory and one component factory, both in Germany.

And everything I’ve read attributes this to mismanagement by the executives and being squeezed on price by Chinese auto mfgrs like BYD.

Automation was not mentioned once as a root cause.

Volkswagen considers German plant closures to save billions in costs

Plans underline European carmakers’ problems in switching from petrol and diesel vehicles to electric models

www.theguardian.com

 

[Moonbeam]

No company owes you a job and that's a fact.

Nobody owes complains the right to exist in such a way they are entitled to making such claims. The self destructive imbecility of unregulated capitalism leads to that. Who gave them the right to pay bosses a thousand time a low income employee. They could always be nationalized and numbers of workers and wages set by human beings based on the wellbeing of society instead of a salary sufficient to buy the best yacht.

 

[brycejones]

So I take it you have nothing to say about productivity gains and their relationship to workers wages and how that relationship has been broken for the last 40 years. Good to know.

Or another way to look at it. Even if workers increase their wages $10 an hour we are talking about an extra $180 to $300 per car.

Does that add a bit of perspective for you?

Odd how Puffy just ignores reality

 

[skyking]

Puffy is great at blaming workers for the failure of management to effectively run a company.

It's a time honored tradition.

 

[hal2kilo]

You really need to show your work here. Stellantis is putting out shit products while investing billions in shit like Alfa that will never return a profit and therefore sales are plummeting. Why is that the worker's fault?

I was going to respond to the earlier post about Stellantis making shit anyway. Spent all of my settlement + on getting 2 Maintenance Required lights off. EGR on a diesel, what a stupid concept.