Audiophiles.

[aCynic2]

I originally included the Logitech Z-5500 505 Watts 5.1 Speaker for a new build I'm making, but then I started think about quality vs volume and decided to ask more about this since I really love my music at least as much as my games.

Assuming, up to $400 for the sound side of my build, what are my options for best quality sound (justify your answers)?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

What are your long term plans for this system?

If sound is something you really care about, I would suggest thinking about starting with a 2.0 set initially. You could get a decent receiver + a pair of pretty good bookshelf speakers for that price.
example starter system

Over time you could add to it to complete the system (sub, center, surrounds). Do you have room to properly set up a surround sound system where your computer is? Especially in cases where someone would have to put the surround speakers in front of them, going with a higher quality set with fewer speakers makes a lot of sense.

With a stereo source like music, just the front two speakers and sub would be used unless you're going to apply some sort of surround processing vs. listening in stereo as intended.

If you're willing to go used, you could even get a fairly good 2.1 system going for that much and have your sub right away too.

If you really want the best sound quality you can get for your dollar, headphones are really the way to go. $400 will go a LONG way to getting you an excellent headphone setup that would blow away anything in the way of speakers on a budget even remotely close to what you're spending.

 

[aCynic2]

I do not intend to have it as a receiver for XFM or anything like that. I have my MP4s and iPod music and that's as far as I've considered it, so far.

Why headphones? Aren't they one speaker audio systems? I always figured you wanted some separation, the kind you get some a tweeter, mid-range, woofer, sub woofer type system.

Also, in the long run, I'd have to rule headphones out. I want to listen while I work around the house. I don't want to be tied to the computer, but I'll still consider headphones for those times I do not mind.

I would still like a surround system, even though much of the music I like is older, 60s to 80s.

 

[darkswordsman17]

As always, good advice from the soundman.

The only thing I would add is maybe figure out what your priorites are, be it music, games, movies, or some combination of those. This can be helpful in figuring out what you want to do.

Oh, and don't forget the software side of things. You can get the most out of your hardware by using and configuring the right software (kernel streaming or ASIO support to bypass the built in Windows sound mixer for instance). There's a lot of no-cost things you can do to help here (such as ripping your music in lossless audio formats instead of MP3). Will you be using a sound card and if so which one?

I would also like emphasize the last point about headphones. They do offer exceptional bang for your buck results and also a more compact footprint (not sure how important the size is for you). Another nice thing is that its much more feasible to have a couple of different pairs with differing strengths. Say you want to game but you also listen to rock music, you could get some Grados for the music and say Beyerdynamic DT-770s or Audio-Technica A900s for the gaming, and even have money left over to go for a nicer sound card (say X-Fi) or a DAC or amp. With the X-Fi and other options offering Dolby Headphone support using headphones is even better than in the past.

Don't get me wrong, speakers are great too, the point is to try to get you the best equipment based on your preferences (some people can't stand headphones).

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: aCynic2
I do not intend to have it as a receiver for XFM or anything like that. I have my MP4s and iPod music and that's as far as I've considered it, so far.

Why headphones? Aren't they one speaker audio systems? I always figured you wanted some separation, the kind you get some a tweeter, mid-range, woofer, sub woofer type system.

I would still like a surround system, even though much of the music I like is older, 60s to 80s.

Headphones are two channel. In fact, you can achieve very good sound placement with the right headphones setup. As far as separation its all about the mixing that went into the source. There's some 2 channel audio mixes that will give you chills with headphones because they were mixed so well.

 

[aCynic2]

Thanks for the replies so far. It looks like I'll need ot consider this deeper. Dark, what are some of the lossless formats? MP4? Ogg?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: aCynic2
Thanks for the replies so far. It looks like I'll need ot consider this deeper. Dark, what are some of the lossless formats? MP4? Ogg?

Apple has their own (that would be good if you use iTunes for instance), there's a Windows one, and the other most popular one would be FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec). There's a few others (and of course you could also go uncompressed WAV but that'll eat up space really quickly). The main thing to consider as far as formats go is compatibility with your equipment/software. Since you have an iPod, the Apple one is likely the best choice there. You could consider using Rockbox on your iPod and then you could use FLAC. For the most part they should all offer pretty much comparable quality, just they have their own unique algorithms. I think FLAC offers a little bit extra (replaygain data stored in the file itself), but its not really enough to get you to go changing everything for it.

The thing to keep in mind is that lossless probably isn't the way to go for all your music, especially if synced with your iPod. It will eat batteries quicker and take up more space, and let's face it, too much music really was not mixed well enough from the start to take advantage. A lot of people use lossless on their favorite songs/albums and then a mid-high bitrate compressed (say 192-256kbps MP3) for the rest.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: aCynic2
I do not intend to have it as a receiver for XFM or anything like that. I have my MP4s and iPod music and that's as far as I've considered it, so far.

Why headphones? Aren't they one speaker audio systems? I always figured you wanted some separation, the kind you get some a tweeter, mid-range, woofer, sub woofer type system.

Also, in the long run, I'd have to rule headphones out. I want to listen while I work around the house. I don't want to be tied to the computer, but I'll still consider headphones for those times I do not mind.

I would still like a surround system, even though much of the music I like is older, 60s to 80s.

By receiver I pretty much just meant to power some passive speakers. I don't use the tuners on my own equipment at all. I go digital from my computer to my electronics which do their crazy little job I have them set up to do and then off to my speaker system.

My office system pictured above is a lot simpler and just consists of a sonic t-amp connected to a pair of AV123 X-LS bookshelf speakers. The reason I suggested a receiver rather than a little amp like that is mainly that you'd have a much easier upgrade path for getting a surround sound set going.

Headphones have a much easier time doing a full frequency range and you'll easily be able to get the whole range of human hearing going with a pair of headphones rather than speakers. To get the last octave in the 20hz-40hz range ( or lower :evil: ) at decent output in a small-medium room, you'd end up spending pretty much your whole budget on a sub. Not really a huge part of most music though
It sure if fun feeling the walls vibrate though and not hearing anything audible when it goes below the range I can hear
I'm more of a movie guy that happened to get more into listening to music since I had this equipment around and feel like I should be getting my money's worth out of it.

My relatively inexpensive Sennheiser HD580s sound great and have as much bass extension as the speaker system I've spent ~27 times as much on :laugh:
I enjoy listening to my speakers a lot more but for times like this (4am literally), it's nice to have some good headphones.

So you're looking for an alternative sound system for $400?

Klipsch Promedia Ultras if you can find them would be a well known alternative to the Logitechs.

I would also recommend looking at a HTIB set from a manufacturer like Onkyo. If you got a system like that, you'd have a lot more flexibility later on for adding to it and replacing things. You could start with the stock system and then upgrade the front stereo speakers eventually (and then whatever else you wanted to).

 

[ribbon13]

Do you own a soldering iron and know how to use it? The dark path my friend... it's filled with delights!

Dayton BR-1S kit powered by a Behringer A500

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Klipsch Promedia Ultras if you can find them would be a well known alternative to the Logitechs.

Are these them (they come in black also)?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836119109

The sound card I planned on getting was:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail

However, nothing is bought yet, so I can change it.

 

[ribbon13]

If you already have surround sound the X-Fi is good for playing the very latest games.

But if you play more movies and music more than you play 3D games, or are a recording musician, check out the very best alternative to the X-Fi. Claro

The great thing about what I recommended before, is you can then get a subwoofer for 2.1, or another pair and have 4.0, and/or both for 4.1, and then you can get a surround sound processor if you like. I've been very happy with the Outlaw 990, it allows for the ultra-sick XLR connection, making a godlike separates system. Additionally, you can get a different kit for your fronts and use the BR-1S for rears. And then theres tactile transducer furniture

 

[aCynic2]

Ok, I doubt I would play movies on my computer. I use my HDTV for that. So it would be music and games.

Also, it's been a while since I used a soldering iron. I'm not a klutz, but I certainly can't work on the macro or microscopic level.

 

[ribbon13]

Nah, it's just a basic speaker crossover, but if you can do that, the BR-1S kit is excellent. It'll sure put Promedia's to shame. Get the kester silver solder too.

My HDTV is my computer monitor... (1080P is sweet) hence my suggestions are pretty much HD-HTPC oriented.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Klipsch Promedia Ultras if you can find them would be a well known alternative to the Logitechs.

Are these them (they come in black also)?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836119109

The sound card I planned on getting was:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail

However, nothing is bought yet, so I can change it.

I meant the 5.1 set

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Klipsch Promedia Ultras if you can find them would be a well known alternative to the Logitechs.

Are these them (they come in black also)?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836119109

The sound card I planned on getting was:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail

However, nothing is bought yet, so I can change it.

I meant the 5.1 set

The 5.1s have been discontinued - the Logitechs are the only option left in that arena now. Dell has them for a good price, especially if you can wrangle up a coupon off of ebay or hot deals...

 

[jondl]

So, basically your setup will be mostly for music? If so, 2 bookshelves will go a LONG way and its so much more worth it in the end.

I was in your shoes about 2-3 years ago asking the same questions and of course, YoYo was there to help me out. I spent so much money on computer speakers that lasted probably a little over a year before their reliability bit the dust when i could've just went straight for 2 bookshelves and a cheap receiver. I eventually added a subwoofer and have been happy since. My systems been running strong for 2+ years now and i'm still amazed at how great they sound.

Now, headphones is a different beast. With headphones, you can get so much for very little and the best part imo are the upgrades. Like others stated above, you can have headphones for different genres and each one will shine in its own way especially if you invest in headamps that let you adjust the sound to your liking (tubes).

 

[Puffnstuff]

As far as dedicated pc speaker systems are concerned I've not heard anything that sounds better than a klipsch promedia 5.1 system. You can buy a receiver and separate speakers and depending on what you buy it will sound good plus afford you extra inputs for other devices.

 

[Speedo]

This is what I'm using. Genelec 8030A and PreSonus Firebox firewire soundcard. Not exactly the cheapest sollution though, but it sounds wonderful. (Yes, I'm producing music as well).
http://chotai.se/frank/images/genelecs.jpg

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Klipsch Promedia Ultras if you can find them would be a well known alternative to the Logitechs.

Are these them (they come in black also)?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836119109

The sound card I planned on getting was:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail

However, nothing is bought yet, so I can change it.

I meant the 5.1 set

The 5.1s have been discontinued - the Logitechs are the only option left in that arena now. Dell has them for a good price, especially if you can wrangle up a coupon off of ebay or hot deals...

Yeah I know they've been discontinued which is why I mentioned "if you can find them". I was thinking that there may be some other ways of finding them (FS/FT, ebay, etc.)

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Speedo
This is what I'm using. Genelec 8030A and PreSonus Firebox firewire soundcard. Not exactly the cheapest sollution though, but it sounds wonderful. (Yes, I'm producing music as well).
http://chotai.se/frank/images/genelecs.jpg

Nice speaker stands

 

[darkswordsman17]

Since music and games are your main concern and you have an X-Fi (or plan on using it) then I would really say headphones would be great for you.

Really you could get some nice headphones and also a decent set of speakers. For the speakers you could get something like the Swans 2.0 system that sells for $200 on Newegg or grab a T-Amp and the XLS bookshelves like Jello uses in his office. This will leave you plenty of room to pick up a nice set of headphones and even amp them. Of course you could also go all out on the headphone setup by using the digital out to an external amp and DAC and then to your headphones. You can always just go with the headphones and add stuff later if you feel like you'd want it or go with just a decent set of phones now and upgrade later (careful you might get the bug though).

You said you could solder you could look into making a CMoy amp for cheap, but good boost for sound.

 

[imported_AndyT]

Originally posted by: Speedo
This is what I'm using. Genelec 8030A and PreSonus Firebox firewire soundcard. Not exactly the cheapest sollution though, but it sounds wonderful. (Yes, I'm producing music as well).
http://chotai.se/frank/images/genelecs.jpg

That's a great setup. Monitor speakers like these tend to be very flat and don't color the music, but I prefer it that way. You can always EQ your player on the PC, but you can't take away a speakers built in "voice" and sound quality if you don't like it.

 

[w00t]

you can get a nice headphone setup for that price as YOyoYOhowsDAjello the HD580 are a very good deal considering they use the same driver as the HD600 which is much more if you check the price. ( due to there being discontinued )

I own HD580 myself and love them but to properly push them you really need an amp.