Well, I dont really drive my speakers at volumes anywhere near what would blow them, so that isnt much of a factor to me. AFAIK they disperse sound a bit better than domes, but most of the time, its just me sitting on front of them.
Well, I dont really drive my speakers at volumes anywhere near what would blow them, so that isnt much of a factor to me. AFAIK they disperse sound a bit better than domes, but most of the time, its just me sitting on front of them.
i have the rf-3 and rf-6 myself
they are good
as for the sub i have a ksw-15 and its muddy in my huge room
still need to get a better sub at this point
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
I got your PM.
I just got back from work and now I'm going to go volunteer at this other place and then I have a biology exam, but I'm sure I'll write something in here to unwind afterwards
Until then I have an unorganized mess of a general audio thread here that you might want to glance at.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=30&threadid=1810562&enterthread=y
I just got back from work and now I'm going to go volunteer at this other place and then I have a biology exam, but I'm sure I'll write something in here to unwind afterwards
Until then I have an unorganized mess of a general audio thread here that you might want to glance at.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=30&threadid=1810562&enterthread=y
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,584
- 985
- 126
I do enjoy them, it's just that I've heard other people who are reviewing them refer to them as harsh (online reviews, not professional reviews). I don't think they are though. I have RF3's and an RC3 center in my HT.
AgaBoogaBoo
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2003
- 26,108
- 5
- 81
Whoa, a 635 That's a nice receiver!
<-- 335 owner
Anyway, do you have a budget on what you want to spend?
Someone above linked to the Klipsch set and I have to say that I haven't ever been overly impressed with the Klipsch stuff. They're speakers are a bit too boomy for me if that word makes sense. I listened to the RF7's and felt that they made too much bass, and it didn't sound like it was a very accurate bass. My terminology is horrible so keep that in mind, but I would give them a listen and compare them to some other speakers.
Find a shop nearby that carries some of these different brands and start listening to stuff. I listened to the Paradigm Studio line right after the RF7's and within a minute of listening I knew I was going with them. I paired mine with an SVS PC+ subwoofer and couldn't be happier.
That's a nice receiver!<-- 335 owner
Anyway, do you have a budget on what you want to spend?
Someone above linked to the Klipsch set and I have to say that I haven't ever been overly impressed with the Klipsch stuff. They're speakers are a bit too boomy for me if that word makes sense. I listened to the RF7's and felt that they made too much bass, and it didn't sound like it was a very accurate bass. My terminology is horrible so keep that in mind, but I would give them a listen and compare them to some other speakers.
Find a shop nearby that carries some of these different brands and start listening to stuff. I listened to the Paradigm Studio line right after the RF7's and within a minute of listening I knew I was going with them. I paired mine with an SVS PC+ subwoofer and couldn't be happier.
In the case of most discrete 5.1, it most certainly is, or should be.
On the other hand, upmixing of a lot of stereo into Pro Logic II for instance, tends to push a lot more onto that center channel. If you're watching a lot of stereo TV and upmixing it, the center channel seems to carry a very disproportionate amount of the load. I still prefer it to watching in stereo though. Music is best left in stereo though, or at least switch to "music" mode of DPLII.
The voices are the most important part.
I thought some other minor sound effects went through the center too though? I'm probably mistaken.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
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Tons of stuff comes out the center.
Just to make sure I just tested a DTS and a DD disk and there's a lot more than dialogue coming out the center.
Just to make sure I just tested a DTS and a DD disk and there's a lot more than dialogue coming out the center.
I doubt I can add much to this conversation, but as has been said, matching speakers are VERY important. Especially all 6 speakers, but ESPECIALLY the mains and center.
I would start all over. I wouldn't try to get an entire 5.1 system for just $1200. If you could sell your current set, that would really help. You have a good receiver, you should match it with a good system.
I would start all over. I wouldn't try to get an entire 5.1 system for just $1200. If you could sell your current set, that would really help. You have a good receiver, you should match it with a good system.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
From what you're saying, I think your front three speakers and getting a sub should be your priorities.
The center is certainly the weak point in that Fluance system, and the rest of the speakers... well... they kind of sound like a $250 5.0 set
A sub will definately have a huge impact for everything.
A new center would be a huge improvement for movies.
New fronts would be a huge improvement for music and will help for movies too.
Do you like either of those options hwan mentioned?
Those would be significantly better sound quality than your current stuff and the speakers would seem to fit your small size requirement.
5.1 SVS system
AV123 x-ls / x-cs 5.1 system
The total weight of these systems would probably end up being more than your current set, but they wouldn't be the massive step up in weight if you were to replace your Fluance with higher quality floorstanders.
You could also put together a nice 3.0 system from somewhere like Ascend / Axiom / etc. and then add a sub of your choice.
An SVS PB10 worked great in a small room for me, but it would probably be overkill if you can't really turn in up.
Do you have the time / desire to go out and demo some stuff to see what kind of sound you like?
If you have the desire to put some time into this, you could order a few pairs of speakers from various manufacturers and then return the ones you don't like as much. All these online brands I've mentioned have trial periods in which you can test their product at home and then return them if you don't like them. You'd be out 1 or 2 way shipping depending on the brand (and actually you'd lose nothing from Aperion Audio), but you'd be able to really tell which products appeal to you.
The center is certainly the weak point in that Fluance system, and the rest of the speakers... well... they kind of sound like a $250 5.0 set
A sub will definately have a huge impact for everything.
A new center would be a huge improvement for movies.
New fronts would be a huge improvement for music and will help for movies too.
Do you like either of those options hwan mentioned?
Those would be significantly better sound quality than your current stuff and the speakers would seem to fit your small size requirement.
5.1 SVS system
AV123 x-ls / x-cs 5.1 system
The total weight of these systems would probably end up being more than your current set, but they wouldn't be the massive step up in weight if you were to replace your Fluance with higher quality floorstanders.
You could also put together a nice 3.0 system from somewhere like Ascend / Axiom / etc. and then add a sub of your choice.
An SVS PB10 worked great in a small room for me, but it would probably be overkill if you can't really turn in up.
Do you have the time / desire to go out and demo some stuff to see what kind of sound you like?
If you have the desire to put some time into this, you could order a few pairs of speakers from various manufacturers and then return the ones you don't like as much. All these online brands I've mentioned have trial periods in which you can test their product at home and then return them if you don't like them. You'd be out 1 or 2 way shipping depending on the brand (and actually you'd lose nothing from Aperion Audio), but you'd be able to really tell which products appeal to you.
Thanks for all the responses so far. I'll be reading reviews on the different speakers from Axiom/Ascend/SVS/Athena that you guys posted.
In the meantime, I have some questions. I'm reading a review of an Axiom 5.1 system, and the reviewer raves about the crossover at 100Hz between the M22Ti's and the EP500 (subwoofer). If I understand correctly, this means that he has it setup so that anything lower than 100Hz goes to the sub, and doesn't get sent to the M22Tis? He says there is no boominess here, and that the transition is smooth. You guys only mentioned that the front and center really need to match up well, so do all the speakers need to be matched, even the sub?
And BTW, I like the M22Ti's after reading some reviews, would you guys recommend them?
The Athenas and the SVS and x speakers that YOyoYO linked seem fine to me in terms of size and looks. Are they all three comparable to each other in terms of quality? Would it be a matter of personal preference? How do these compare to the Fluance I am using now (YOyoYO, I noticed you have the Fluance in some of the pics from the link on your sig, what did you upgrade to?)
In the meantime, I have some questions. I'm reading a review of an Axiom 5.1 system, and the reviewer raves about the crossover at 100Hz between the M22Ti's and the EP500 (subwoofer). If I understand correctly, this means that he has it setup so that anything lower than 100Hz goes to the sub, and doesn't get sent to the M22Tis? He says there is no boominess here, and that the transition is smooth. You guys only mentioned that the front and center really need to match up well, so do all the speakers need to be matched, even the sub?
And BTW, I like the M22Ti's after reading some reviews, would you guys recommend them?
The Athenas and the SVS and x speakers that YOyoYO linked seem fine to me in terms of size and looks. Are they all three comparable to each other in terms of quality? Would it be a matter of personal preference? How do these compare to the Fluance I am using now (YOyoYO, I noticed you have the Fluance in some of the pics from the link on your sig, what did you upgrade to?)
Axiom centers:
VP100 v2 $250.00 USD
VP150 v2 $400.00 USD
Worth the extra price to go from VP100 to VP150? What difference would I see between the two, would it just be how loud the speakers are?
VP100 v2 $250.00 USD
VP150 v2 $400.00 USD
Worth the extra price to go from VP100 to VP150? What difference would I see between the two, would it just be how loud the speakers are?
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
Yeah, I had some Fluance back when I wasn't sure if I was actually into this sort of thing.
I have Onix Rockets now for my speakers with an SVS sub.
I recently got a 3.1 setup for my parents off craigslist and "tested" it for them for several days. $750 got my a pair of M22s (with the Axiom 24" stands), a VP150, an Onix ULW-10 sub, and an Onkyo 602 receiver.
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Axiom_Front.JPG
For your crossover question, yeah... pretty much. It's not an immediate 100% transition though. The crossover you set is the point at which the sub starts to take over. If you set the crossover at 100hz, your speakers will still be contributing to the sound output below that point, but the sub will gradually take over.
I used an 80hz crossover between the M22s and my SVS 20-39 PC+ and it worked quite well.
As long as you get a good performing sub, it shouldn't really matter if it's from the same brand as these speakers you're looking at. Aesthetics might be the primary concern about matching
Any of these speakers should be a substantial upgrade in terms of sound quality compared to the Fluance stuff. The Fluance sets are good at being loud and sounding reasonably good for what you pay for them. Sound should be a lot more natural and realistic sounding with these choices.
As for 6-ohm vs 8-ohm, you should be ok. That HK 635 should have no problems driving any of these options.
In comparing the Axioms and Rockets, they each had their strengths and weaknesses. My rockets had significantly better bass reproduction as expected and have a warm sound that I really like.
The Axioms were very nice as well and had a brighter sound that really opened up the higher frequencies which sounded great for some material. In other cases, I really missed the warmth that the rockets provided.
So anyway... personal preference
I have not heard the SVS speakers or the X-LS from AV123, but from what I understand the SVS's would be fairly neutral with the X-LS's being warmer.
As I stated before, it would be great if you could try out a few options in your home and do some testing to see what appeals to you personally.
As for the VP100 vs. the VP150, I only used the VP150 but it seems like the goal for that design is to get a wide dispersion going from the speaker. Maybe the Axiom forum would be a good place to get info on that based on your own situation.
I have Onix Rockets now for my speakers with an SVS sub.
I recently got a 3.1 setup for my parents off craigslist and "tested" it for them for several days. $750 got my a pair of M22s (with the Axiom 24" stands), a VP150, an Onix ULW-10 sub, and an Onkyo 602 receiver.
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Axiom_Front.JPG
For your crossover question, yeah... pretty much. It's not an immediate 100% transition though. The crossover you set is the point at which the sub starts to take over. If you set the crossover at 100hz, your speakers will still be contributing to the sound output below that point, but the sub will gradually take over.
I used an 80hz crossover between the M22s and my SVS 20-39 PC+ and it worked quite well.
As long as you get a good performing sub, it shouldn't really matter if it's from the same brand as these speakers you're looking at. Aesthetics might be the primary concern about matching
Any of these speakers should be a substantial upgrade in terms of sound quality compared to the Fluance stuff. The Fluance sets are good at being loud and sounding reasonably good for what you pay for them. Sound should be a lot more natural and realistic sounding with these choices.
As for 6-ohm vs 8-ohm, you should be ok. That HK 635 should have no problems driving any of these options.
In comparing the Axioms and Rockets, they each had their strengths and weaknesses. My rockets had significantly better bass reproduction as expected and have a warm sound that I really like.
The Axioms were very nice as well and had a brighter sound that really opened up the higher frequencies which sounded great for some material. In other cases, I really missed the warmth that the rockets provided.
So anyway... personal preference
I have not heard the SVS speakers or the X-LS from AV123, but from what I understand the SVS's would be fairly neutral with the X-LS's being warmer.
As I stated before, it would be great if you could try out a few options in your home and do some testing to see what appeals to you personally.
As for the VP100 vs. the VP150, I only used the VP150 but it seems like the goal for that design is to get a wide dispersion going from the speaker. Maybe the Axiom forum would be a good place to get info on that based on your own situation.
I'm extremelly lazy and doubt that I will be up for trying out different options at home and shipping them back. I have no car and would have to take time off of work to be at home when the stuff is delivered and when it gets picked up to ship back.
So far I'm leaning towards the Axiom set, M22's, either VP100 or 150 for the center, and an undetermined sub. I might just get those pieces for now and get surrounds later.
Since sub doesn't have to match the other speakers, any recommendations on a good quality 8" sub?
I plan for this system to last me 5-10 years at least, so quality is important.
So far I'm leaning towards the Axiom set, M22's, either VP100 or 150 for the center, and an undetermined sub. I might just get those pieces for now and get surrounds later.
Since sub doesn't have to match the other speakers, any recommendations on a good quality 8" sub?
I plan for this system to last me 5-10 years at least, so quality is important.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
Most of the decent subs tend to start at 10".
The x-sub is an 8" model.
HSU STF-1 is another 8" that comes to mind.
Of course all these subs are going to have gain control (and you'll be able to calibrate through the HK), so getting a 10" or 12" sub isn't going to mean it has to be louder. You'll tend to get better low frequency extension from larger drivers and larget cabinet areas. Something you really might want to think about if moving might be a possibility in this 5-10 year window you have given yourself for this system.
If you're looking for an alternative to the 8" Axiom sub, but SVS PB10 is right around that same price (before shipping). I would put my money on the SVS as being much more capable for HT usage.
The x-sub is an 8" model.
HSU STF-1 is another 8" that comes to mind.
Of course all these subs are going to have gain control (and you'll be able to calibrate through the HK), so getting a 10" or 12" sub isn't going to mean it has to be louder. You'll tend to get better low frequency extension from larger drivers and larget cabinet areas. Something you really might want to think about if moving might be a possibility in this 5-10 year window you have given yourself for this system.
If you're looking for an alternative to the 8" Axiom sub, but SVS PB10 is right around that same price (before shipping). I would put my money on the SVS as being much more capable for HT usage.
Good point about me possibly moving into a larger apartment. I didn't know that I could adjust a larger sub to be less loud. Quality is key for me, so I take it then that 10" or 12" may serve me better. I'll read up.
Are there any good sub (or even audiophile in general) tutorials out there, that teach you what to look for when buying?
As a side note, audio reviews use such abstract words like warm, boomy, soft, hard, rich, crisp, forward, live, etc. A quote from a review: "... more body, smoother, rounder edges to the images, and more air..." so it's really hard to understand exactly what they mean sometimes. I can take it at face value and imagine the what they are describing when applied to a sound, but sometimes it seems ridiculous that i'm supposed to be able to make a buying decision based on that prose.
Are there any good sub (or even audiophile in general) tutorials out there, that teach you what to look for when buying?
As a side note, audio reviews use such abstract words like warm, boomy, soft, hard, rich, crisp, forward, live, etc. A quote from a review: "... more body, smoother, rounder edges to the images, and more air..." so it's really hard to understand exactly what they mean sometimes. I can take it at face value and imagine the what they are describing when applied to a sound, but sometimes it seems ridiculous that i'm supposed to be able to make a buying decision based on that prose.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
I don't even know what some of the words they use are really describing.
That's one reason why it's so important to really get out and listen. You can read warm/smooth/bright/forward/neutral/etc. all day and still have no idea what you will actually like.
I don't think it's terribly important when somebody is buying a pair of $50 speakers or something, but when you're talking $400+/pair range, then you really have some good options and I really think it's good to hear some different stuff in person before you decide.
That said, I understand your lack of car situation all too well
For some info on subs, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=113
I don't know if there's any good sort of "guide" out there that I would trust.
For my own research in looking for my sub, a used SVS seemed like the best option for me. My original PB10 worked so perfectly in my small room that I was pretty set on the used 20-39 PC+ option that I'm currently using for my larger room.
I've been so satisfied for the performance from these options vs. what I've seen in retail stores that I have no hesitation recommending them.
If you're into projects, a DIY sub could be a very good alternative if you want to put some effort into it.
EDIT: one more thing to mention about reviews... I would take those kind of reviews with a grain of salt. Pretty much all of them at some point say something along the lines of "These would be a good deal at twice the price" or "These perform favorably against speakers that cost 2-3 times as much" etc. I would have to say that the vast majority of reviews I have read have ranged from a rating of good to excellent. Very rarely do I see a "bad" review out there.
That said, I think you have some very good options mentioned in this thread and I think if you choose from some of the options mentioned you're going to be very happy.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I ordered, and spent a lot more than I planned, but it is in the interest of quality. Too many times in the past I hesitated and bought cheaper stuff that I didn't really want and later regretted the decision. I'll update when I receive and get to test the equipment out.
Fronts: Axiom M22Ti's (with overpriced 16" stands)
Center: Axiom VP150
Surrounds: Axiom QS-8's
Sub: SVS PB10
Fronts: Axiom M22Ti's (with overpriced 16" stands)
Center: Axiom VP150
Surrounds: Axiom QS-8's
Sub: SVS PB10
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
- Aug 6, 2001
- 31,205
- 45
- 91
The stuff has arrived. I hooked it all up, but need to reposition the sub and then do auto-calibration (I will do manually with that 5.1 calibration DVD some weekend in the future).
I can't believe how huge the sub is. I thought 10" sub meant I was getting something around a cubic foot. This thing is a monster, I have to move one of my small tables into another room to make space for it. It weighs 65lbs, and I dropped it on my middle finger while trying to take it out of the box, finger still hurts hours later.
So far the sound quality is pretty good. I watched Walk The Line in HD, and listened to some mp3's from my xbox and I am happy with the quality. I have yet to start testing out DVD's and test with different genres of music CD's (John Coltrane's Blue Note, Getz/Gilberto, The Roots, N.E.R.D's In Search Of, and assorted Radiohead & Smashing Pumpkins albums).
I can't believe how huge the sub is. I thought 10" sub meant I was getting something around a cubic foot. This thing is a monster, I have to move one of my small tables into another room to make space for it. It weighs 65lbs, and I dropped it on my middle finger while trying to take it out of the box, finger still hurts hours later.
So far the sound quality is pretty good. I watched Walk The Line in HD, and listened to some mp3's from my xbox and I am happy with the quality. I have yet to start testing out DVD's and test with different genres of music CD's (John Coltrane's Blue Note, Getz/Gilberto, The Roots, N.E.R.D's In Search Of, and assorted Radiohead & Smashing Pumpkins albums).
I dont know if this has been said already but...
Rule #1: If you upgrade any component of the front stage, you have to upgrade all 3 speakers.
Rule #2: If you do not have a subwoofer, and you are allowed to have one, this will make a great difference to your movie experience, and would be worth blowing your budget on this item.
Do you have any speaker dealers near you? Listening to some B&W 600 series speakers, or equivalent paradigm could open your ears to new audio experiences. Plenty of other speaker manufacturers including internet direct like AV123, AudioC, Axiom etc.
For 1300$, something like the B&W 601s3, LCR600 center, SVS pB-10 nsd would be an excellent upgrade. The addition of the SVS alone would be mouth dropping if you are used to not having a subwoofer. Experiencing 20hz bass for the first time in a home theater is immediately gratifying.
You could sell your fluance for some extra cash, or use them as rear channels if you don't already own rear channel speakers.
Just an idea...
N/M... Looks like yoyo set ya straight! Do post pictures, and your impressions after listening to a while. It will be a fun ride!!
BTW, on my first speaker expenditure, I overspent by 100%. I was not feeling sorry once I unpacked and let the speakers sing. My second time, I overspent by 50%. Again, I knew that I got the best that I could get! Did I have to eat PB&J sandwidches for a couple weeks? Yes, but damn it, it was worth it!
Rule #1: If you upgrade any component of the front stage, you have to upgrade all 3 speakers.
Rule #2: If you do not have a subwoofer, and you are allowed to have one, this will make a great difference to your movie experience, and would be worth blowing your budget on this item.
Do you have any speaker dealers near you? Listening to some B&W 600 series speakers, or equivalent paradigm could open your ears to new audio experiences. Plenty of other speaker manufacturers including internet direct like AV123, AudioC, Axiom etc.
For 1300$, something like the B&W 601s3, LCR600 center, SVS pB-10 nsd would be an excellent upgrade. The addition of the SVS alone would be mouth dropping if you are used to not having a subwoofer. Experiencing 20hz bass for the first time in a home theater is immediately gratifying.
You could sell your fluance for some extra cash, or use them as rear channels if you don't already own rear channel speakers.
Just an idea...
N/M... Looks like yoyo set ya straight! Do post pictures, and your impressions after listening to a while. It will be a fun ride!!
BTW, on my first speaker expenditure, I overspent by 100%. I was not feeling sorry once I unpacked and let the speakers sing. My second time, I overspent by 50%. Again, I knew that I got the best that I could get! Did I have to eat PB&J sandwidches for a couple weeks? Yes, but damn it, it was worth it!
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