I read somewhere that the audigy card doesnt is not really a 24bit card.
Can someone clarify on this
?
Can someone clarify on this
?
audigy: fake 24 bit ?
- Thread starter littlegohan
- Start date
The converters are capable of 24/96 but the DSP is not. Therefore it can't perform 24bit functions all the time. The only true 24bit functionality it has is when using SPDIF exclusively. It's not fake 24 it's just not complete.
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 7,512
- 2
- 81
Man that sucks! What, they can't get off their ass and convert some 16bit algorithms to 24bit (or maybe 32bit would actually be easier)!
I'm afraid that you don't understand how a soundcard works. It has nothing to do with "algorythms" and the emu10k2 chip in the audigy is in fact 32bit. It has to do with the way it samples and plays back music and has nothing to do with the "bitness" of the chip. Tom's has a goog guide for soundcard 101. You can't record higher than 24bit as far as I'm aware.
The Audigy's DACs are 24bit/96KHz Philips ones, but its internal audio pipeline isn't. So, during no time does it provide the Philips DAC with a 24bit/96KHz PCM audio data stream, but rather only 16bit/48KHz like most other soundcards and AC97 solutions. Hence, the Philips DACs are NEVER ever used to their fullest potential. There's no way you can upsample/resample the audio data to 24bit/96KHz with it either, so the 24/96 moniker is entirely a marketing one.
You can record higher than 24bits, but not with any consumer cards. There are some speciality equipment that allow 32bit recording at up to 384KHz sampling rate or higher, but the majority of consumer and even audiophile equipment are capped at 24bit/192KHz.
You can record higher than 24bits, but not with any consumer cards. There are some speciality equipment that allow 32bit recording at up to 384KHz sampling rate or higher, but the majority of consumer and even audiophile equipment are capped at 24bit/192KHz.
"There's no way you can upsample/resample the audio data to 24bit/96KHz with it either, so the 24/96 moniker is entirely a marketing one."
The Audigy is able to output a 96KHz PCM stream through the SPDIF connector, regardless of what sampling rate the internal audio data is. There is a control panel option to choose what sampling rate you want to output 44.1,48, or 96KHz. When 96KHz is selected if it isn't outputting 96KHz, then it is doing a fine job of fooling my receiver, as it states on the display "PCM 96KHz". That doesn't mean it is 24bit 96KHz all the way through the pipe, but it is at least capable of upsampling at the last stage of output.
The Audigy is able to output a 96KHz PCM stream through the SPDIF connector, regardless of what sampling rate the internal audio data is. There is a control panel option to choose what sampling rate you want to output 44.1,48, or 96KHz. When 96KHz is selected if it isn't outputting 96KHz, then it is doing a fine job of fooling my receiver, as it states on the display "PCM 96KHz". That doesn't mean it is 24bit 96KHz all the way through the pipe, but it is at least capable of upsampling at the last stage of output.
ok, so i overlooked the digital output. i was actually talking about the analog part, where there's no way it would upsample an audio signal before the DAC portion into the DAC. anyway, calling the card 24/96 capable is still pretty bad marketing.
Hehe Is there a new card in the works that has full 24bit/192khz, or are they just not finished
milking the Audigy for all it's worth?
It would be nice to see another good card with the output like a pro quality card but with the compatibility of an Audigy for games that uses less processing power from the cpu, has "good and reliable" drivers, and does not clog up the registry.
milking the Audigy for all it's worth?
It would be nice to see another good card with the output like a pro quality card but with the compatibility of an Audigy for games that uses less processing power from the cpu, has "good and reliable" drivers, and does not clog up the registry.
That card is no replacement for an Audigy if you are a gamer. First off it costs $250 vs about $170 for the retail Platinum version and $60 for the OEM. Straight from the review you linked:
"The Audigy Platinum also has the undeniable lead in quality. The tests we did with these games (or in Alice, Operation Flashpoint or Alien Vs Predator) give a definite advantage to the Creative Labs card. No sound is missing or patchy as it is sometimes with the Terratec DMX 6Fire 24/96. Note that the Audigy Platinum supports EAX Advanced HP, but, apart from the demos supplied by the manufacturer, there was no game to test how efficient it really was in this respect."
Also all DS3D streams are processed in software for the Terratec vs hardware for the Audigy.
The Terratec is basically a Parhelia version of a sound card. Expensive and not for the hardcore gamer, though it does have top notch quality in other areas that aren't matched by other mainstream choices.
"i was actually talking about the analog part, where there's no way it would upsample an audio signal before the DAC portion into the DAC"
Uh oh, does that mean I can't get 96KHz audio sent to my junk Promedias or other garbage multimedia speakers? Those speakers will torch clean audio more than not have 96KHz audio will. Digital output is more important than analog as anyone with equipment to take advantage of such features will undoubtedly be using a HT setup with SPDIF in. I agree completely that the marketing is shady and misleading at best, but I let my ears determine the quality of a sound card, not press releases and stickers on a box.
"The Audigy Platinum also has the undeniable lead in quality. The tests we did with these games (or in Alice, Operation Flashpoint or Alien Vs Predator) give a definite advantage to the Creative Labs card. No sound is missing or patchy as it is sometimes with the Terratec DMX 6Fire 24/96. Note that the Audigy Platinum supports EAX Advanced HP, but, apart from the demos supplied by the manufacturer, there was no game to test how efficient it really was in this respect."
Also all DS3D streams are processed in software for the Terratec vs hardware for the Audigy.
The Terratec is basically a Parhelia version of a sound card. Expensive and not for the hardcore gamer, though it does have top notch quality in other areas that aren't matched by other mainstream choices.
"i was actually talking about the analog part, where there's no way it would upsample an audio signal before the DAC portion into the DAC"
Uh oh, does that mean I can't get 96KHz audio sent to my junk Promedias or other garbage multimedia speakers? Those speakers will torch clean audio more than not have 96KHz audio will. Digital output is more important than analog as anyone with equipment to take advantage of such features will undoubtedly be using a HT setup with SPDIF in. I agree completely that the marketing is shady and misleading at best, but I let my ears determine the quality of a sound card, not press releases and stickers on a box.
The card that I linked to trashed the audigy in absolutely all areas except for EAX A3d. It's the best compromise between a recording card and a gaming card.
They say similar things about the santa cruz in this review here but a lot of people still like it over audigy. You know what? Now that you mention it, the Muse Xl, a $15 card did better than Audigy in EAX!!! That's the same chip I have integrated into my motherboard here. So, if that's the most important thing to you, I suggest you go out and get an ASUS P4s533 and use the integrated audio or get a Muse Xl.
I don't really see where there is room for debate in the statement: "The Audigy Platinum also has the undeniable lead in quality." Which is in addition to winning all the benchmarks. This only referring to the gaming aspects of the cards.
"No sound is missing or patchy as it is sometimes with the Terratec DMX 6Fire 24/96."
Missing sound or dropouts is completely unacceptable for a gaming sound card. Would you buy a graphics card that had missing graphics or dropped out objects while gaming? The Terratec lost all the benchmarks, clearly lst the quality cmoparisions as well, and had missing audio. What else is there to a gaming card? That's like saying this is an excellent gaming video card with the few exceptions that it isn't that fast in Direct3D, or OpenGL, the picture quality is a bit subpar too, and the screen occasionally garbles or objects oddly disappear randomly.
I don't see how linking to another article that says the Audigy is clearly the best card across the board strengthens your arguement either.
"No sound is missing or patchy as it is sometimes with the Terratec DMX 6Fire 24/96."
Missing sound or dropouts is completely unacceptable for a gaming sound card. Would you buy a graphics card that had missing graphics or dropped out objects while gaming? The Terratec lost all the benchmarks, clearly lst the quality cmoparisions as well, and had missing audio. What else is there to a gaming card? That's like saying this is an excellent gaming video card with the few exceptions that it isn't that fast in Direct3D, or OpenGL, the picture quality is a bit subpar too, and the screen occasionally garbles or objects oddly disappear randomly.
I don't see how linking to another article that says the Audigy is clearly the best card across the board strengthens your arguement either.
Pariah... you should read the conclusion. Tom clearly says that the Audigy is better in gaming but...
"We observed that in the music field, especially with regard to inputs/ outputs, the DMX 6Fire 24/96 is way ahead of its rival, which is not a "true" 24-bit/ 96-kHz card. But, when it comes to games, the Audigy takes the lead. "
The Terratec WON all the audio benchmarks for sound quality (noise level, converter quality, etc), but LOST all the DS3D and EAX benchmarks (CPU usage wise), as you would expect it to. I do not see where you get the premonition that the sound quality is worse than the Audigy when using non-EAX or DS3D.
Yea, the stickers on the box stating all the awards on it doesnt mean much, but why dont you go to a professional music store and listen to a Fire6 and then go to Fry's and listen to an Audigy.
"We observed that in the music field, especially with regard to inputs/ outputs, the DMX 6Fire 24/96 is way ahead of its rival, which is not a "true" 24-bit/ 96-kHz card. But, when it comes to games, the Audigy takes the lead. "
The Terratec WON all the audio benchmarks for sound quality (noise level, converter quality, etc), but LOST all the DS3D and EAX benchmarks (CPU usage wise), as you would expect it to. I do not see where you get the premonition that the sound quality is worse than the Audigy when using non-EAX or DS3D.
Yea, the stickers on the box stating all the awards on it doesnt mean much, but why dont you go to a professional music store and listen to a Fire6 and then go to Fry's and listen to an Audigy.
Your comments are misdirected dexvx. My posts are in response to this one as it relates to the Terratec card:
"It would be nice to see another good card with the output like a pro quality card but with the compatibility of an Audigy for games that uses less processing power from the cpu, has "good and reliable" drivers, and does not clog up the registry."
Nothing you said was incorrect but it's all irrelevent as the point I'm making is that it is a poor gaming card at best which doesn't fit into the above criteria. The Terratec is not a gaming card and really isn't intended to be one, it just happens to be able to perform some of the functions of a gaming card, though not very well. The Audigy and DMX 6 fire have some crossover capabilities, but their true target markets are completely different and they excel only that one area vs each other while not doing nearly as well in the crossover area.
"It would be nice to see another good card with the output like a pro quality card but with the compatibility of an Audigy for games that uses less processing power from the cpu, has "good and reliable" drivers, and does not clog up the registry."
Nothing you said was incorrect but it's all irrelevent as the point I'm making is that it is a poor gaming card at best which doesn't fit into the above criteria. The Terratec is not a gaming card and really isn't intended to be one, it just happens to be able to perform some of the functions of a gaming card, though not very well. The Audigy and DMX 6 fire have some crossover capabilities, but their true target markets are completely different and they excel only that one area vs each other while not doing nearly as well in the crossover area.
Well, the Audigy does produce more inaccure and dropped EAX sounds than the $15 muse XL in the review that I linked so I guess that the Muse XL and the integrated audio in this motherboard which uses the same chip are vastly superior to the audigy by your own criteria.
"The Muse XL's WaveOut performance was warm and well-balanced without harshness, with good separation between the various sound streams. DirectSound was even better, with excellent separation that was never murky or muddled. EAX proved to be the best of all, with a nice echo effect that wasn't overdone and just "sounded right." In fact, we judged the EAX performance of the Muse XL to be the best of all the cards tested."
Yes, the audigy was included and a $15 sound card beat it at EAX.
Yes, the audigy was included and a $15 sound card beat it at EAX.
More from the same review:
"A3D on the Audigy was very choppy"
"DirectSound was even better (on the audigy) in terms of sound quality, though the playback seemed to get muddled as the audio streams stacked up."
So, I guess if you're willing to forsake a card with better quality sound for EAX capabilities you better forget about that Audigy and get a Muse XL for $15.
"A3D on the Audigy was very choppy"
"DirectSound was even better (on the audigy) in terms of sound quality, though the playback seemed to get muddled as the audio streams stacked up."
So, I guess if you're willing to forsake a card with better quality sound for EAX capabilities you better forget about that Audigy and get a Muse XL for $15.
Well, after dragging this thread hopelessly off topic, we have come to the conclusion that the Muse XL is the best all round card that mixes audiophile quality with stellar gaming performance, and for $15 to boot. Who can argue with that? Guess it ends here.
To me, your post suggested that the Terratec Fire6 sucks at everything, Pariah, not just gaming.
Now that you clarify that it sucks at gaming, let it end there.
Now that you clarify that it sucks at gaming, let it end there.
The quality of the audio on the Muse XL was "flat" though. It's not a good all around card. I can definteily hear the difference. That's the same type of thing you were saying though. That the audigy is better than the terratec just as, by the same cretiera, the Muse XL would be better than the Audigy.
but if the audigy's audio signal is only 48khz internally and upsampling to 96khz and out the digital output, then it's still not as high quality as any card internally processing the audio at 96khz and outputting it, while not upsampling, at 96khz.
u might as well be outputting 48khz via the analog out to your promedias.
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2001
- 4,646
- 0
- 71
The Terratec card does feature 24 bit support for recording, but with WinXP and Win2000 it only has ASIO support. Meaning that virtually all audio programs will not be able to utilize 24 bits. This isnt a problem with Terratec, its a Win NT problem. If you are looking for a good card for recording, the Audiophile 2496 is a better choice than the Terratec. It uses the same ENVY24 chip, but the DAC are much better than the Terratec card. Personally, I think the Terratec is trying too hard to be an "all in one" solution.
The lack of 24 bit support for XP/2K is a big reason why most people who do "serious" work with a Windows box are still running 98 and havent moved to 2K/XP yet.
The lack of 24 bit support for XP/2K is a big reason why most people who do "serious" work with a Windows box are still running 98 and havent moved to 2K/XP yet.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter