Attempt at "cheapest viable Facebook / browser build".

[VirtualLarry]

If you think those keys you are buying are just from other regions, you're lying to yourself.

Seriously, where would them come from otherwise? I figure that they're a CDKEYS site, much like greenmangaming, to use one example I've read about for "cheap Steam keys" on this forum. The explanation that I read was that they purchase cheaper Steam keys from other regions, and resell them, which, as I understand it, is still fully legal.

 

[VirtualLarry]

But, if XavierMace just picks them up and sell them as they come out of the storage facility without loading up Windows, then the software wasn't transferred anyway. Although, he definitely could "refurbish" the ones they forget to wipe, lol. That is a proper transfer of software according to the EULAs. If someone buys a box with a COA and intends to be the END USER, I think MS goes, "whatever".

That was kind of my point, if the keys are out-of-region, but valid, and legal to import, what is MS going to do? At least, that's the theory.

I'm lucky if I sell 1-2 PCs a year, and so far, I've only used e-mail keys on personal systems.

 

[cbn]

Virtual Larry, if you are having trouble with software decode in Linux Firefox I wonder if dual channel RAM would help?

 

[XavierMace]

Seriously, where would them come from otherwise? I figure that they're a CDKEYS site, much like greenmangaming, to use one example I've read about for "cheap Steam keys" on this forum. The explanation that I read was that they purchase cheaper Steam keys from other regions, and resell them, which, as I understand it, is still fully legal.

TechNet/MSDN/VL/Educational.

Abuse of those systems has been a long running issue which is why Microsoft eventually cancelled TechNet. I've seen more than one businesses volume license get pulled because it was being abused (employees giving keys to friends, etc). Educational keys now expire to ensure you're still an active student, before the keys lived on forever.

Since you have no COA, you have no idea what you are getting. I could have just walked down an isle at work, wrote down key numbers from the COA's and sold you those. They'll activate the first time, maybe even the second. Eventually Microsoft is going to question activating that key and since you have no COA, you lose.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Anyways, I've pretty-much decided that these "donation PCs" will be running CloudReady.

Now, that's based on ChromiumOS... isn't that based on a customized Linux kernel? So, should be Free Software, and free to distribute?

https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/how-tos-and-troubleshooting/developer-faq
"Of course Chromium OS is open source, and it's Linux. This means that as a developer you can do pretty much anything you want, including installing any Linux application."

 

[whm1974]

Why not just install a lightweight Linux distro with XFCE instead?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Refurbished: Lenovo Thinkcentre M82 SFF Intel Core i3 2120 (3.30 GHz) Desktop Computer, 4GB RAM, 250GB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit

• $119.99

So, OK, the pre-built guys have a point. Unfortunately, I'm not starting with a "clean slate", and I've already got the FM1 guts, the 16GB SSDs, and today, the micro-ATX cases.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Virtual Larry, if you are having trouble with software decode in Linux Firefox I wonder if dual channel RAM would help?

Why not just install a lightweight Linux distro with XFCE instead?

I think that the issue with Linux (Mint 18 Mate), is simply down to drivers. I have no issues with video playback in Win10, with single-channel RAM, so I really don't think it's a hardware issue, and CloudReady can at least play 1080P @ 30 VP9 YouTube videos smoothly. (Which, I don't think VP9 hardware decode is even supported.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

What I don't get, is why two different wifi adapters that I have, that have RealTek chipsets, that are supported by Linux Mint just fine, don't work at all with CloudReady.

 

[Torn Mind]

Refurbished: Lenovo Thinkcentre M82 SFF Intel Core i3 2120 (3.30 GHz) Desktop Computer, 4GB RAM, 250GB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit

• $119.99

So, OK, the pre-built guys have a point. Unfortunately, I'm not starting with a "clean slate", and I've already got the FM1 guts, the 16GB SSDs, and today, the micro-ATX cases.

Sounds like you have some desire to clear the wares from your storage. There's a reason AMD wrote off Llano inventory. It just isn't/wasn't a compelling buy for the price then, and it isn't now.

 

[Torn Mind]

Double post. Firefox screwing with things...

 

[whm1974]

Refurbished: Lenovo Thinkcentre M82 SFF Intel Core i3 2120 (3.30 GHz) Desktop Computer, 4GB RAM, 250GB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit

• $119.99

So, OK, the pre-built guys have a point. Unfortunately, I'm not starting with a "clean slate", and I've already got the FM1 guts, the 16GB SSDs, and today, the micro-ATX cases.

The MicroATX cases, PSU, and the memory are really the only items in your inventory that are still useful. Yes I know that even a Liano based system is still better then nothing, but considering the link above why would we bother?

 

[VirtualLarry]

The MicroATX cases, PSU, and the memory are really the only items in your inventory that are still useful. Yes I know that even a Liano based system is still better then nothing, but considering the link above why would we bother?

So, these non-enthusiast patrons of the food pantry, that may not have a PC, are going to say, "no, I don't want a zero-software-maintenance CloudReady LLano system, for free, when I can buy a i3 Sandy-Bridge refurb online with Windows for $120"?

Edit: And I disagree that these are no longer "still useful". As I've mentioned, they play 1080P@30 VP YouTube videos, which should be good enough for most people. (1080P@60 VP9 is still a little skippy, but mostly watchable.)

If Linux had proper drivers for the FM1 APU's iGPU, then I'd prefer to use straight-up Linux, with some lightweight window-manager / desktop, but I haven't found one yet that supports the LLano iGPU (with sufficient performance for videos). Maybe I should try older versions?

 

[whm1974]

OK you have a point there Larry.

 

[cbn]

I think that the issue with Linux (Mint 18 Mate), is simply down to drivers. I have no issues with video playback in Win10, with single-channel RAM, so I really don't think it's a hardware issue, and CloudReady can at least play 1080P @ 30 VP9 YouTube videos smoothly. (Which, I don't think VP9 hardware decode is even supported.)

Yes, I don't believe VP9 would use hardware decode on FM1. So I suspect Firefox is just less efficient at the software decode compared to Chromium.

The question is does dual channel (in this case) help Firefox software decode? Or does the CPU need to be stronger.

P.S. I have noticed playing back DRM protected content on Windows Media Center with a Sandy Bridge Core i5 mobile processor stutters with just single channel RAM. I need dual channel to get smooth. However, with this mentioned, I am not sure how good of an analogy this would be? ( DRM content on Media Center and a browser using VP 9 videos seem far apart from each other).

 

[VirtualLarry]

The thing is, scrolling a single web page is also slower and kind of choppy using Firefox on Mint 18 Mate. It seems clearly to be a driver issue with Linux, it's not updating the screen at 60FPS, or probably not even 30FPS, under Linux.

 

[cbn]

The thing is, scrolling a single web page is also slower and kind of choppy using Firefox on Mint 18 Mate. It seems clearly to be a driver issue with Linux, it's not updating the screen at 60FPS, or probably not even 30FPS, under Linux.

I remember back when I tested my ECS E1-2100 APU BGA board (1.0 Ghz Jaguar dual core with 128sp iGPU) Chromium was much faster than Firefox in LInux on this very low end hardware:

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...r-rebate-free-shipping.2368832/#post-36100900

Update 4: I am noticing web browser performance (as of 3-24-2014) is substantially better with the Chromium browser compared to Firefox under the pre-release version Ubuntu 14.04 . (Firefox can occasionally be a little rough on webpage scrolling even at 1280 x 960 resolution, but Chromium is completely smooth all the time at the same resolution. When I increase pixels to 1600 x 1200, Chromium browser is still able to smoothly scroll web pages, but Firefox seems to further increase in roughness.) (EDIT: As of 5/31/2014, I have come across some web content which will scroll rather slowly even with Chromium at 1280 x 960. However, even with this reduced smoothness in scrolling, the browser is still remains very useable.)

So I am sure browser performance differences are occurring here as well.

 

[cbn]

Maybe Opera could be an option since it is build on the same foundation as Chrome:

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/using-best-web-browser-linux/

3. Opera
Opera has several noteworthy features, including tab stacking, Opera Turbo, the Speed Dial, and the built-in unlimited VPN that was recently added. It’s built on the same foundation as Chrome, so you also get great performance.

The biggest downside is the crippled availability of extensions, and while you can get around that by using an extension to install Chrome extensions on Opera, it’s just not the same.

Very rarely you might come across a website that doesn’t work properly, but I can count the number of times that’s happened on one hand. All in all, I consider Opera to be a top-tier browser.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm, I think that the first time I installed Linux Mint 18 Mate 64-bit on this box, with the 16GB SSD, I had the single 8GB DDR3-1866 DIMM @ 1600 OC 6%.

I then over-wrote that install with the CloudReady install, which worked fairly well, except for the lack of HDMI audio, which was disappointing.

So I pulled out another 16GB SSD, installed Mint 18 Mate 64-bit again, and this time, I had 2x2GB DDR3-1600 installed, still at the same settings (I believe) as the single DDR3-1866 (meaning, that the DDR3-1600 was OC 6% or so, but timings were de-rated to 11-11-11-38-2T, which is what the single DDR3-1866 was set to).

This time, with 4GB RAM instead of 8GB, the Mint 18 Mate installer created a 4GB swap partition, instead of an 8GB, leaving some room free on the SSD this time.

Also, I tried some different 1080P VP9 videos this time around.

I tried a 1080P VP9 @ 25 FPS, and there was a commercial that was @ 24, also VP9 apparently, and they played without dropped frames.

I also tried another VP9 @ 60 video. It was dropping a lot of frames, but it was still playing more-or-less smoothly, which was an acceptable experience to me, unlike when I tried it the first time, and it would play, and pause, and play, and pause..,etc.

So, actually, the Linux Mint 18 Mate 64-bit experience on this hardware isn't as bad as I thought I remembered. Maybe the dual-channel does make a BIG difference?

Either way, I guess I have a choice now. I think that I would rather put Linux on there, for some flexibility, they can use OpenOffice, etc., and my wireless adapters work in Linux. Plus, they can use Software Manager to download some games if they like.

Edit: Btw, scrolling does seem smoother with dual-channel RAM installed too. Or maybe it was the driver updates, I don't know. I still haven't tried installing the proprietary AMD drivers, but now that the videos on YouTube are playing acceptably, I don't think that I'm going to bother.

 

[Torn Mind]

Graphics are starved for memory bandwidth. I supposed that if the dataset is large enough, the lack of bandwidth rears its ugly head with stutter even in seemingly light duty tasks such as HD video.

Firefox is a pig on slow hardware and is pretty much a non-option on weak processors. Phone and tablet CPUs included. It just doesn't work well to use it on these types of devices.

 

[cbn]

I still haven't tried installing the proprietary AMD drivers, but now that the videos on YouTube are playing acceptably, I don't think that I'm going to bother.

According to the following manually installing the AMD proprietary drives might not even be possible:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Blob-Server-1.18

With Ubuntu dropping support for the AMD fglrx/Catalyst driver in their upcoming 16.04 LTS "Xenial Xerus" release and manually installing the driver doesn't sound like an option, many have renewed interest in how the open-source Radeon driver stack is performing for Ubuntu 16.04 that's due out next month. In this article are benchmarks comparing the performance of Ubuntu 14.04.4 LTS (on both the open and closed drivers) to that of Ubuntu 16.04 LTS with the sole AMD Linux driver option on a variety of graphics cards.

Canonical had to resort to deprecating the fglrx Catalyst (or now known as Radeon Software) driver support since AMD is no longer actively maintaining that Linux driver and doesn't even have mainline support for the latest Linux kernel and X.Org Server releases, which means it won't work on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. AMD is replacing the driver later in the year with their AMDGPU kernel based hybrid driver for GCN 1.2+ GPUs and whatever GCN 1.0~1.1 GPUs that end up getting enabled for this newer DRM driver that succeeds the Radeon DRM driver. That new hybrid driver is expected around the middle of the year, likely to be timed with the Polaris launch. AMD's forthcoming Vulkan Linux driver is also contingent upon this AMDGPU driver.

But I am glad to hear your system appears to be working better with the default.

 

[cbn]

Just installed Vilvadi browser from the Software Center.

Wow......Very very fast. I would say this is noticeably faster than either Chromium, Opera or Cloud Ready.

Here is the Wikipedia link on the Browser:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivaldi_(web_browser)

EDIT: Upon further testing Vivaldi appears to be the same speed as Opera. (I had mistakenly thought Vivaldi was faster because I had enabled the built in VPN on Opera....which slowed down the speed at which web pages opened. Once I disabled the VPN the speed at which the two browsers opened pages equalized.)

 

[cbn]

Virtual Larry,

What you tube video are you using for your 1080p VP9 test?

I would like to test with my A6-5400K using both single and dual channel RAM (running at DDR3 1600 rather than DDR3 1866 in order to simulate a A4-7300)

EDIT: Using this You tube @ 1080p (25 FPS) video I am getting no dropped frames with A6-5400K using either 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 or 1 x 4GB DDR3 1600.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Using this You tube @ 1080p (25 FPS) video I am getting no dropped frames with A6-5400K using either 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 or 1 x 4GB DDR3 1600.

Yeah, I tried that video, seemed fine.

When I was testing with the single-channel DDR3-1866 @ 1600 CAS11-11-11-38-2T, I was trying some 1080P @ 60 VP9 video, something with GoPro Hero and RC car in the title I think.

Try this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m2O7VsYVX4
video/mp4; codecs="avc1.4d401f"

I'm running VSR @ 2560x1440 (1440P) on my G4400 Skylake (OC to.445Ghz) desktop, and that video is showing huge numbers of skipped frames, when full-screened. Like 10000 out of 12000 skipped.

Edit: That's probably because I was running my CPU at 100% doing DC. After starting the video a few times later on, no dropped frames, probably because the DC had paused because I was using over 50% CPU time on non-DC tasks.

I'm curious about the codec, is that the same as AV1, or is that AVC, as in H264? I'm curious why it would be served up that way on this box, and I thought, VP9 on my AMD FM1 box.

 

[cbn]

Yeah, I tried that video, seemed fine.

When I was testing with the single-channel DDR3-1866 @ 1600 CAS11-11-11-38-2T, I was trying some 1080P @ 60 VP9 video, something with GoPro Hero and RC car in the title I think.

Try this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m2O7VsYVX4
video/mp4; codecs="avc1.4d401f"

I'm running VSR @ 2560x1440 (1440P) on my G4400 Skylake (OC to.445Ghz) desktop, and that video is showing huge numbers of skipped frames, when full-screened. Like 10000 out of 12000 skipped.

Edit: That's probably because I was running my CPU at 100% doing DC. After starting the video a few times later on, no dropped frames, probably because the DC had paused because I was using over 50% CPU time on non-DC tasks.

I'm curious about the codec, is that the same as AV1, or is that AVC, as in H264? I'm curious why it would be served up that way on this box, and I thought, VP9 on my AMD FM1 box.

My C2Q with GT730 GDDR5 Windows 7 box shows this video (using stats for nerds) as AVC1 codec (which is the same as H.264 according to this link) and my A6-5400K Ubuntu Mate machine shows this as VP9.

So it appears my VLIW4 iGPU is not supporting the hardware decode in Linux.

EDIT: When I plug in my R7 250X (a GCN 1.0 dGPU) it also comes up VP9, so I assume the Kaveri and Godavari iGPUs (which are also GCN 1.0) would also not be supported at this time.