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ATTACK IRAQ? NO! Bumper sticker
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Grasshopper27
Banned
Folks, we have a traitor here...
Why don't you just move to Iraq if you love the place so?
Iraq has zero excuse to attack our airplanes, and a lot of civilians would be dead without the no-fly zones...
So, are YOU for killing civilians? Cause that is what will happen without the no-fly zones.
Grasshopper
Grasshopper27
Banned
Exactly... If he really "predicted" anything, then why don't we know about it before hand?
Everything is nice in 20/20 hindsight, but if it can't be called ahead of time, then he predicted nothing.
Grasshopper
Grasshopper27
Banned
Saddam has killed hundreds of thousands of civilians.
That isn't mindless crap, it is genocide and he should die for that crime.
Grasshopper
Grasshopper27
Banned
Marty,
Just what evidence would convince you? I've got the feeling there will never really be enough to convince you that war is the solution.
As far as I'm concerned, we had enough solid evidence a year ago, I require nothing else to convince me that war is now the best and only real solution.
Grasshopper
Here? They're all over. Every time I get in a cab I have to wonder what the hell they are saying to one another. I've had these scumbags try and argue US Foreign Policy with me, and then wonder why I don't tip them. I just tell them, if you don't like the US m#therfvcker, go back to wherever you came from and herd goats or whatever you did over there. Don't cry about our capitalist country and then expect to profit from it. Granted, not all of them are like this, but it just shows along with all the details from 9/11, that the enemy is already WITHIN . There's a reason the NSA and DoD always refer to "Internet chatter" when raising alert levels.
So SherEPunjab, when's the next attack and where?
Chiz
chizow
Are you another one of the alternate egos of one of our more enlightened members? You know the one like MrPaltrow that they bring out when the discussion is not going well for them.
Edit/ No I don't have proof, just a very strong suspicion There is a pattern and this seems to fit the pattern very well.
Specifically, a caricature of what they perceive their opposition to be but overdone to a great extent in an attempt to make their debate opponents look bad and detract from the main discussion
Are you another one of the alternate egos of one of our more enlightened members? You know the one like MrPaltrow that they bring out when the discussion is not going well for them.
Edit/ No I don't have proof, just a very strong suspicion There is a pattern and this seems to fit the pattern very well.
Specifically, a caricature of what they perceive their opposition to be but overdone to a great extent in an attempt to make their debate opponents look bad and detract from the main discussion
Grasshopper27
Banned
Nope, why do you ask? Or was that an insult? 🙂
I'm 26 BTW...
Grasshopper
Vic
Elite Member
I'm against the war, think Michael Savage is a doofus and the shock-jock Howard Stern of talk radio, and am not a liberal but a conservative libertarian. My politics are old-school conservative ala Goldwater. IMNSHO, you "neo"-conservatives (as I call it) are not conservatives at all but some new type of fascist.
And no, I don't have one of those stickers, but a neighbor of mine had one like 6 months ago.
Chizow,
Your very drivel is a portrait of the stupid-as-hell American, who thinks like a five-year old in some black and white binary. How racist and stupid can you be? You are wondering what the hell "they" are saying, and then assume it's anti-american sentiment or disloyalty. What angers you is that the answer to the problem is not so clear, and anything besides an us-them mentality makes your tiny mind ache. So what do you do? Step out of your little world my friend, and realize that often people feel anger towards America, not because they dislike it or unloyal, but because everytime they try to identify with their (often times, new) home, they are constantly spewed against by people like you. You talk about capitalism and freedom, but are the biggest communist, stifling and angering at any peep of critical thinking about America's action. Patriotism isn't fascism, and thinking in America's best interests may very well entail countering the mainstream, pop-culture, us-them whitehouse propaganda. But that's too difficult for many Americans like you - it's easier when all the "bad guys" look bad (or different), and everyone in between is just collateral damage.
Your very drivel is a portrait of the stupid-as-hell American, who thinks like a five-year old in some black and white binary. How racist and stupid can you be? You are wondering what the hell "they" are saying, and then assume it's anti-american sentiment or disloyalty. What angers you is that the answer to the problem is not so clear, and anything besides an us-them mentality makes your tiny mind ache. So what do you do? Step out of your little world my friend, and realize that often people feel anger towards America, not because they dislike it or unloyal, but because everytime they try to identify with their (often times, new) home, they are constantly spewed against by people like you. You talk about capitalism and freedom, but are the biggest communist, stifling and angering at any peep of critical thinking about America's action. Patriotism isn't fascism, and thinking in America's best interests may very well entail countering the mainstream, pop-culture, us-them whitehouse propaganda. But that's too difficult for many Americans like you - it's easier when all the "bad guys" look bad (or different), and everyone in between is just collateral damage.
I wouldn't argue if I were you. This is the best example of a fallacious argument in favour of war I have seen yet. (Argument By Emotive Language (Appeal To The People): using emotionally loaded words to sway the audience's sentiments instead of their minds. Many emotions can be useful: anger, spite, condescension, and so on. link)
What would be enough evidence for me? If the UN inspectors find a WMD program, that would probably be enough. I would not mind a war then.
No, unlike others posting here, I don't hold myself out there as something I'm not. Nothing wrong with a little patriotism is there?
Chiz
Btw, they argue the same BS to my "legitamate" arguments, so why not cut down to the chase and call them for what they are? Ex-patriates from that region that claim to be reborn US supporters, but sit here and argue to wits end about why we shouldn't crater their homeland.
Grasshopper27
Banned
Then you don't care about the civilians in Iraq? You want them to keep suffering? Without a war, they will be suffering for a long, long time. With a war, their suffering will be over quickly.
Sheesh...
Grasshopper
Let them know they they will be supported if they overthrow saddam, but let them sort out their own affairs. Same goes for Iran, especially Iran. The people are so dissatisfied, a revolution is inevitable. (Yes, bush was very wrong for labeling them as the "axis of evil").
Many other countries have done the same, and some are in the process of doing it now.
KeyserSoze
Diamond Member
I didn't read the entire thread. But here's my worthless $.02.
We do not need to go into Iraq right now. And we're BREEDING more Hate for the U.S. I'm just thinking after the next terrorist attack, are we really going to ask ourselves again "Why did this happen?"
Just a thought. And when we go there, WHAT are we going to do? Blow up all suspected weapons plants? Are we going after Saddam, to try to capture him? What's our goal there?
KeyserSoze
We do not need to go into Iraq right now. And we're BREEDING more Hate for the U.S. I'm just thinking after the next terrorist attack, are we really going to ask ourselves again "Why did this happen?"
Just a thought. And when we go there, WHAT are we going to do? Blow up all suspected weapons plants? Are we going after Saddam, to try to capture him? What's our goal there?
KeyserSoze
The question as to whether it's saber rattling has been THE question from the start. It's hard to say if it's that, or dawning political reality throughout. If it's sager rattling I'd say it certainly has freaked the rest of the world out if not Iraq. I also don't think that was very smart. Time will tell, but I think the strategic calculations that were extant regarding things like the US controlling Iraqi oil point to empire building as the correct motive. In that case we will go to war if we have to fabricate the evidence against Iraq ourselves. No signs of that either, huh?
Grasshopper27
Banned
They cannot overthrow Saddam, he has too much power and that power is maintained with force. Only a greater force can remove it.
The Iraqi people do not have that power, so we have to do it for them.
Grasshopper
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