ATT service is getting really bad

[Brian Stirling]

I've mentioned in passing a few times recently in other threads that ATT's service has been getting worse over the last couple years. I don't mean lack of signal or coverage but the quality of service. Now, more often than not, when I try to use a web browser or Tapatalk or gmail the phone just sits there and does nothing and that's with 3, 4 or more bars.

Honestly, it's gotten so it's just not fun to use the phone anymore as I'm more likely to get bad or terrible service than I am to get good or great service. In fact I'd say ATT is now as bad or worse even than Sprint was when I dumped them 3+ years ago. BTW, this is using both my HTC One or my iP5S -- both on ATT.


Brian

 

[paperwastage]

what region?

read: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2459185,00.asp

A year ago, T-mobile barely had any LTE coverage... now, (according to PCMag), they're better than AT&T (of course, depending on your area, and whether you travel a lot)

You'll need to wait a while before AT&T improves (carrier aggregation to get more LTE bandwidth, deploying Band 30 and band 30 phones, refarming 2G/3G bands->LTE,...)



In a way, T-mobile's past infrastructure helps: higher frequency bands means T-mobile needs more cell sites to cover same area... but more cell sites = more network backbone and can support more users.... deploying 42mb DC-HSPA+ requires upgraded backbone, which means switching on LTE is easier with that backbone... deploy of 4x2 mimo antennas and software upgrades at cell towers, no customer phone upgrades necessary (4x2 doesn't increase max theoretical speed, but helps in increasing connection/signal strength/quality)



why don't you test drive T-mobile for free? If you are on any non-grandfathered plan (eg Mobile Value/Share plans) with no contract/subsidy, could always switch to t-mobile for a year, then switch back to at&t if they fix things in 1 year

 

[corkyg]

ATT has never been good at my house in Tucson, and yes, Sprint was better. But, now VZW rules. Same when I visit my sister-in-law in Pasadena, CA - ATT can't even get one fraction of a signal bar. VZW again to the rescue. And, same in Lemoncove, CA (East of Visalia.) ATT us generally marginal in the southwestern US, particularly rural areas.

 

[ImDonly1]

My experience is the same at certain times of the day.
Not sure if it is ATT or because I am on Straight Talk (ATT sim).

Would consider T-mobile if they had some 700Mhz spectrum here for indoor coverage. Might get a test SIM for t-mobile and see how I like it in the areas I am in.

 

[cronos]

AT&T has always been at full bar in my apartment, then I found that they have a BTS on top of our building

 

[s44]

AT&T is up against it on spectrum. They aren't going to make big advances until they start refarming 850 and/or 1900 (soon, I think).

 

[cmdrdredd]

Surprisingly I switched one line to T-Mobile from verizon and get both better signal in the areas I have checked so far and the data speeds are twice as fast as what I had before. I did not have an xlte device though. Still, I have tested AT&T via a friend's iPhone 5s and the speeds were about the same as Verizon which are slower than what I have seen on T-Mobile today.

It probably depends a huge amount on the are you are comparing.

 

[Brian Stirling]

what region?

read: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2459185,00.asp

A year ago, T-mobile barely had any LTE coverage... now, (according to PCMag), they're better than AT&T (of course, depending on your area, and whether you travel a lot)

You'll need to wait a while before AT&T improves (carrier aggregation to get more LTE bandwidth, deploying Band 30 and band 30 phones



In a way, T-mobile's past infrastructure helps: higher frequency bands means T-mobile needs more cell sites to cover same area... but more cell sites = more network backbone and can support more users.... deploying 42mb DC-HSPA+ requires upgraded backbone, which means switching on LTE is easier with that backbone



why don't you test drive T-mobile for free? If you are on any non-grandfathered plan (eg Mobile Value/Share plans) with no contract/subsidy, could always switch to t-mobile for a year, then switch back to at&t if they fix things in 1 year

What region ... I travel a lot, am on the road 85% of the time, so it's no single location but many locations. My experience with ATT has declined substantially in virtually all locations.

Again, a couple years ago ATT was actually pretty good but now it's unusual when its decent as it's more often bad and often unusable. I'm really getting pissed...


Brian

 

[s44]

Blame the data hogs!!!

Oops, AT&T already throttled all of them ages ago. And somehow Verizon still has the best service despite being forced to keep its lanes open.

 

[paperwastage]

Blame the data hogs!!!

Oops, AT&T already throttled all of them ages ago. And somehow Verizon still has the best service despite being forced to keep its lanes open.

Well, AT&T won the PCMag test in 2013.

Verizon back then was suffering from the same problem AT&T had today: congestion.... Verizon now has XLTE(basically LTE on AWS band, meaning more spectrum), and Verizon's winning the speed test now, even with their grandfathered-unlimited users (AT&T throttles their grandfathered users after 5GB, but Verizon doesn't)

It's just more people (paying more to) use more data....

What region ... I travel a lot, am on the road 85% of the time, so it's no single location but many locations. My experience with ATT has declined substantially in virtually all locations.

Again, a couple years ago ATT was actually pretty good but now it's unusual when its decent as it's more often bad and often unusable. I'm really getting pissed...


Brian

then it's easy...

if you have a current mobile share/value plan (non-legacy/grandfathered-unlimited), move to Verizon... It's a small jump in price but better usability than AT&T(right now)

 

[s44]

Verizon back then was suffering from the same problem AT&T had today: congestion.... Verizon now has XLTE

Verizon always had huge AWS holdings though, they just lagged a bit in bringing the band online. AT&T doesn't have any such reserve, but will have to start refarming pretty aggressively.

 

[lopri]

It is not as fast as it was last year but still plenty fast enough for me with better coverages underground. Northern Jersey.

 

[s44]

Checking HoFo I see the refarm process is well underway, so AT&T users may want to make sure from here on out that their devices do LTE on Band 2 as well as the usual ones.

 

[Lyfer]

Blame the mvno's.

 

[paperwastage]

Verizon always had huge AWS holdings though, they just lagged a bit in bringing the band online. AT&T doesn't have any such reserve, but will have to start refarming pretty aggressively.

hmm... i'm surprised that AT&T got itself into such a bad position (on spectrum allocation), while t-mobile has a somewhat good spectrum allocation (with no budget for equipment to actually use it)

Sprint spark uses carrier aggregation too

Sprint: 800+1900+2.5 GHz deployed in some areas
Verizon: plan to use 700+AWS, not official or deployed
AT&T: 700+AWS deployed in chicago, maybe 1900 also

 

[s44]

Remember that AT&T does have a big spectrum advantage over T-Mo with *two* low-frequency bands: 700 and 850. That's why they have broader coverage outside urban areas (and in buildings, though T-Mo is pretty good at that in ultra-dense NYC). And they did want to gobble up all of T-Mo's spectrum for a reason, besides just ensuring no well-run competitor... with all that AWS and extra PCS they'd be kicking butt without having to refarm as quickly.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Well, AT&T won the PCMag test in 2013.

Verizon back then was suffering from the same problem AT&T had today: congestion.... Verizon now has XLTE(basically LTE on AWS band, meaning more spectrum), and Verizon's winning the speed test now, even with their grandfathered-unlimited users (AT&T throttles their grandfathered users after 5GB, but Verizon doesn't)

It's just more people (paying more to) use more data....

then it's easy...

if you have a current mobile share/value plan (non-legacy/grandfathered-unlimited), move to Verizon... It's a small jump in price but better usability than AT&T(right now)

Not that simple ... my company provides the iP5S and its on ATT. I then get a 20% discount for my personal phone, on ATT.

So, I can't switch my company phone and if I switched to Verizon for my personal phone I'd pay more and for what guarantee it will be better a year or two from now.

I'll be in the market for a new phone in about 10 months and will re-evaluate the options at that time but counting on Verizon to be great 1-2 years down the road -- yeah, that I wouldn't bet on.


Brian

 

[cmdrdredd]

Not that simple ... my company provides the iP5S and its on ATT. I then get a 20% discount for my personal phone, on ATT.

So, I can't switch my company phone and if I switched to Verizon for my personal phone I'd pay more and for what guarantee it will be better a year or two from now.

I'll be in the market for a new phone in about 10 months and will re-evaluate the options at that time but counting on Verizon to be great 1-2 years down the road -- yeah, that I wouldn't bet on.


Brian

When I switched from AT&T to Verizon it was because AT&T didn't offer Android phones at the time. As a bonus I got better signal strength and faster speeds. When LTE rolled out I upgraded to a HTC Thunderbolt and then later to a Galaxy Nexus and then Galaxy S3. When I first got the S3 I was easily pulling down 30Mbps but then over time it gradually degraded to somewhere around 3-10Mbps in most of the areas around town here. Then I decided to do some research before I made a decision to stay or leave. I checked with a friend who had T-Mobile with a Note 3 and a relative who had an iPhone 5s on AT&T. Both would report speeds either matching or slightly above what I would see on Verizon in the same area. So I came to the conclusion that in the areas I care about the companies are relatively equal in terms of coverage and data speed. Nobody reported any call drops at all or poor reception.

You are right, there is no guarantee of one company having a clearly better network in a specific area over time. I believe that in the South Florida area Verizon has more users than they did previously on LTE which accounts for my dramatic speed drop over the course of 2 years. I'm sure AT&T and T-Mobile haven't been idle as both have brought LTE online in the area here and they have signed up more users on LTE data plans. I'm sure when AT&T and T-Mobile first brought LTE online and you were one of the first ones to try it, the speeds would be higher than I currently get. Things are pretty evenly matched for me so it comes down to how much you want to spend for additional coverage areas outside of a major city. I suppose if you travel more to places not near one of the major metro areas that see good coverage from everyone, you may have to choose the one that offers service and don't have much of a choice.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Here's a followup...

Last week I called ATT to complain about service around a worksite I'm at in upstate NY. For much of this year the service around the Global Foundries site in Malta NY has been beyond terrible. The interesting thing is, since I have two ATT phones (personal HTC One and business iP5S) whenever I have a problem with one I can try the other and a really interesting thing happens here quite often.

I can be at 4 or 5 bars one second and then no service at all, no bars at all, the next second; but when I look at my other phone it still has 4 or 5 bars and will communicate. I called ATT last week and complained about and spent 45 minutes on the phone with them and then, a couple days ago, I get a voice mail from ATT saying they saw the problem and fixed it. Only problem is the problem hasn't been fixed at all.

It my guess that what ATT is doing is selectively disconnecting some customers to limit bandwidth use. The worksite has perhaps 3000-4000 total people with probably 1500 or so being ATT customers and the area isn't real built up so my guess is they have inadequate capacity to handle 1500ish users so they do the equivalent of a cell phone brown out. I don't know this for a fact, but when one phone goes from 4-5 bars to zero bars while the other one is still at 4-5 bars I have to believe ATT is playing some games.

Also, even when I have 4-5 bars the data rate is dead slow so pulling up AT from tapatalk is often impossible as is emails and web surfing. And, even though I make few voice calls they also drop out quite frequently even with 4-5 bars.


Brian

 

[cmdrdredd]

That is interesting indeed. I would guess that in the area you are talking about, they are just way above capacity rather than any type of "brown out" as you put it.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

AT&T is up against it on spectrum. They aren't going to make big advances until they start refarming 850 and/or 1900 (soon, I think).

1900's already being refarmed. But yeah, basically, AT&T is going through what Verizon went through in 2013. They're running out of spectrum. The refarm needs to happen now.

 

[Brian Stirling]

That is interesting indeed. I would guess that in the area you are talking about, they are just way above capacity rather than any type of "brown out" as you put it.

Well, by brown out I'm referring to the technique the power companies use to reduce power consumption during peak periods by selectively disconnecting some customers on a rotating basis. The other term used is rolling blackout.

It's my guess that ATT is doing this, on a rolling basis, to all the phones at the site. If this is so it's an interesting game as the phone will go from 4-5 bars to zero bars and displaying "no service" while my other phone is still fine. My co-workers see the same thing so it's not just me or my phones.

And, if this is what they're doing then they're knowingly lying to me when they said the fixed the problem.


Brian

 

[pm]

Well, by brown out I'm referring to the technique the power companies use to reduce power consumption during peak periods by selectively disconnecting some customers on a rotating basis. The other term used is rolling blackout.

It's my guess that ATT is doing this, on a rolling basis, to all the phones at the site. If this is so it's an interesting game as the phone will go from 4-5 bars to zero bars and displaying "no service" while my other phone is still fine. My co-workers see the same thing so it's not just me or my phones.

And, if this is what they're doing then they're knowingly lying to me when they said the fixed the problem.


Brian

Are both phones equivalent? In terms of bands and protocols? Like they are both 3G phones using the same AT&T bands? Or is one on EDGE and the other 3G? If they are the same phones, I have no explanation - except to wonder about the firmware of the communications processor of the phone that's having problems. But if one is on 3G (W-CDMA) and other EDGE (GSM, TDMA) then it would make sense.

All CDMA schemes are subject to a phenomenom called "cell breathing" where the area the cell covers can get bigger or smaller depending on how many users are using it. This isn't an AT&T-specific problem - all 3G carriers have it, it's a part of the actual system to do this. You can say (correctly) that it's AT&T's fault for not having enough towers or capacity but it's not quite as underhanded as you are implying since this is an issue with all 3G implementations - and even Verizon and Sprints 2G/2.5G systems.

What you effectively see is that when there's a lot of users on a given tower, then you can be sitting in one place and watch the total number of bars disappear as the tower reduces it's signalling output power. The Wikipedia article below makes it sounds like it's a choice of the carrier ("we have too many, lets dump them") but it's actually a limitation of the CDMA communications protocol where you have to reduce the output power for signal integrity reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_breathing_(telephony)

 

[Brian Stirling]

One phone is the HTC One the other is the iP5S. Both report 4G in this area.

Brian

 

[pm]

One phone is the HTC One the other is the iP5S. Both report 4G in this area.

Brian

Then I'm back to my fallback opinion... which is that I have no idea.