ATOT Parents: I need your help with teaching my 5th grade daughter math.

[anno]

there is some good software out there.. well.. I'm a little out of touch now but there used to be so there's bound to still be, probably bettter stuff.. and some of the old stuff ought to be real cheap!

quick look at best buy, they have an "adventure workshop 4th-6th grade" for 19.99 that has amazon trail and spellbound (we used spellbound a LOT to get through those elementary school spelling lists) and a carmen sandiego math detective game and the zoombinis.. which is bound to teach something (logic) but is just great fun in general as well! and all of that for 19.99. 🙂 somtimes just changing the format of the information helps.

do they not have a math resource person at her school? maybe you can get her extra help that way. the school system is really obligated to find a successful way to teach her, you need to insist that they do so. the math resource teacher probably knows just the way to do it..

anno

 

[badmouse]

Oh yeah, and don't forget to tell her that the answer to a story problem IS NOT A NUMBER, it's a process (with a number at the end of it).

If that doesn't make sense, I'll explain more, but I'm tired.

 

[TuxDave]

I never had difficulty with word problems. Maybe the first part is to improve her reading comprehension? Perhaps you need to find a good book that secretly stuffs in some math problems like the grocery one you did earlier.

 

[bleeb]

Seems like she doesn't understand the words. Keep toughing it out. Go over problems EVERY single day. Don't discourage but keep encouraging.

 

[Isla]

Just a thought...

Is there any chance she could have a Specific Learning Disability? These are usually kids who are bright but have some specific processing difficulties. Often, the REALLY bright ones manage to get by until 4th and 5th grade, when things get a little tougher. Word problems in math are usually a killer for them to do.

You might want to bring it up with her teacher and school psych/guidance counselor. It's better to catch it before her self-esteem goes down-hill! There are tests that will show whether or not there is a 'split' in her abilities. These include processing speed, short term memory, long term memory, and so on.

Please consider looking into this... if this is the case, she will get accomodations in testing (usually longer time to complete tests at the very least) and a teacher who is trained in working with kids to compensate will spend time with her each day. I used to be one of those teachers and it's really rewarding to watch kids who are struggling go on to achieve great things. Not long ago, there was an SLD kid in the newspaper who has gone on to be a Rhodes scholar. 🙂 My daughter's BF is also SLD, and he is now attending the College of Engineering at our local U.

Best WIshes!

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
When you find a solution, let me know. I teach high school math and would guess about 1/3 of my students just can't do word problems. I've been learning more about brain functioning and how it puts language and mathematics together, but have much more to learn. For now, lets just leave it at: some students have a really hard problem combining the two.

Anyway, I think that what you're doing in the store is probably helping. But, she's not seeing those problems in the form of word problems. That's the critical part! Reading "if there are 3 tomatoes in a pound, how many tomatoes would be in 4 pounds?" on a piece of paper, and hearing those words spoken while not reading makes a HUGE difference for some students. It has a lot to do with their cognitive processing skills and all sorts of other psychology things that bore me.

Anyways, most of us who have no such problems find it really difficult to comprehend what the difference is. But, watch when I ask a group of kids that same tomato problem in class, as well as 4 or 5 other similar problems, with the tomatos and other props right in front of them. Take the group of students who get the problems all correct and give them the exact same problems 10 minutes later in written form, and remove the props. You'd think they'd all get 100%, but they don't. I'm not sure that it shouldn't qualify as a learning disability of some sort.

Anyway, do what you're doing in the store AND do it again on paper and try to help her break down the problem.

Also, rather than have her solve the problems by +-/*, have her attempt to draw a picture of the problem. For the ticket problem, draw 37 tickets with $14 on each one. Then, she can add $14 37 times. That could even be her problem: she doesn't understand that multiplication is a shortcut for adding a bunch of times. (and division a shortcut for subtracting a bunch of times) {I've run into high school students who don't realize this}

You can also offer some sort of manipulatives that model certain types of problems. After a while, (hopefully), she's modeled enough problems either by drawing pictures or by working with manipulatives for it to help. You can also try reading the problems to her as she does them... That might even help, depending on her learning style.

I wish I had a magic method that would result in her being 100% successful right away, but unfortunately I don't. I really wish such a solution existed though.

You are doing a great job. It's wonderful to know that they have a teacher like you who is willing to work with them!!!

 

[StageLeft]

I hate to copout, but I'd send her off to one of those sweet ass tutors - what're those commercials...argh, I can't remember. I'd had several tutors in my life and found most of them crap, but the last one I ever had - for math, incidentally - actually was very good, and turned my grade in the course from an F to an A-. Much of that was just applying myself, but she did fill in some gaps. Keep trying tutors until you hit a sweet spot.

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Tried this earlier today with my daughter, about the same age range. I told her she didn't have to give me exact answer, just tell me *how* would she arrive at the answer. So I said about the qty 37 of $14 tickets. Question how much would you make:
First off "A lot" (no, not what I'm looking for)
2nd observation: "What if I didn't sell all of them?" told her for the sake of the computation to assume she sold all.

Ok I'm getting kind of discouraged now from the resounding silence.. she said she thought it would be easier if they were $15 each, I said OK, how much then? Still no reply.

So I tried to break it down at that point. How much would I make if I only had/sold 1 ticket? $14 (good!), 2 tickets? $28 (yep). So she decided it was a sort of multiplication problem after all. Did she really get it? I asked how much would you make if you had 10 tickets $5/apiece? Answered $50 OK gears are all turning correctly now 🙂

She picked up on the 3/tomatoes/pound = 12 tomatoes in 4 lbs right away. Your daughter might have been mislead by you mentioning the $.99/lb could be considered $1.00/lb [didn't matter one bit as to what you ended up asking her.]

If you hit a real roadblock, perhaps it would be worthwhile to try some tutoring like Kumon, I requested info from them once & they sounded pretty decent.

 

[Lovepig]

Daily repetition is the key.

Make her do 1/2 hour of math DAILY. Even saturdays. Her scores will shoot up in 2-3 months and never go down as long as you keep doing the daily math practice on our own with her and adjusting the diffivulty as she masters each step.

Daily practice with parents allows you to spot and correct problems BEFORE they show up on a test. And it will help her keep her thinking straight. Try it for 3 months. I guarantee all B's or better. (or double your money back!!)

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Lovepig
Daily repetition is the key.

Make her do 1/2 hour of math DAILY. Even saturdays. Her scores will shoot up in 2-3 months and never go down as long as you keep doing the daily math practice on our own with her and adjusting the diffivulty as she masters each step.

Daily practice with parents allows you to spot and correct problems BEFORE they show up on a test. And it will help her keep her thinking straight. Try it for 3 months. I guarantee all B's or better. (or double your money back!!)

True dat. My parents secretly did repititions without me realizing it. When I was young, they would let me count out the change to give to the cashier, see if the reciept is added up right, or check whether or not the person gave them the correct change, etc... I found it fun somehow.

 

[Muzzan]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: DrPizza
...and division a shortcut for subtracting a bunch of times...

How the hell is division a shortcut for subtracting a bunch of times?

How many times can you subtract 7 from 63?

As many or as few times as you like. (It's better phrased "how many times would you have to subtract 7 from 63 in order to get 0?").

 

[Carbo]

The next jerk that suggests a learning disability or some such BS, I going to evaporate that individual. I am so sick of hearing how every kid who can't immediately grasp a problem, or who is a C student, is a victim of some sort and has to be treated with special care and affection.
Here's a math problem for you: if Carbo erases the next twit who says ADD, how many less members will ATOT have?

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Carbo
The next jerk that suggests a learning disability or some such BS, I going to evaporate that individual. I am so sick of hearing how every kid who can't immediately grasp a problem, or who is a C student, is a victim of some sort and has to be treated with special care and affection.
Here's a math problem for you: if Carbo erases the next twit who says ADD, how many less members will ATOT have?

I'd have agreed with you a few years ago. I'd have even said "stick a cattle prod up their rear... they'll start paying attention and will learn." But, actually working with these kids day after day, you come to realize there's more to it than laziness, lack of attention, or whatever.

So. I'll go with the professionals and state again: there *may* be some sort of learning disability. If you wish to be an inexperienced, uneducated (in brain development, processing skills, etc.) , opinionated buffoon, so be it.

(However, I'll agree with the opinion that ADD is wayyyyyyyyyy over-diagnosed)

 

[OutHouse]

thanks for all the advice guys. There is a teachers Helpers store a few miles away, I think this sat we are going to make a visit and see what they have. I would love to find workbooks with nothing but word problems.

Also, My mother in law called last night and told us to watch a local station becasue Dr. Phil was having a special about helping kids do better in school. We watched it and that also gave us some ideas. did anybody else catch it?