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++ ATOT official NEF thread part IV ++

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sdifox said:
Same shit as the Crusades. We must liberate X from the Devil.
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The first Crusade made some sense. IIRC, some Arab tribe came up from the south and wiped out a bunch of Christians in an area that is now modern Iraq. Then things got successively out of hand. Eventually the religious reason (like wanting control of Jerusalem) were just a cover for Noble families acquiring land and building wealth if the former Arab lands. Clearly, this wasn't inline with the teachings of Christ. I view such things as principally the abuse religion, as opposed the religious wars. Doesn't make them less horrible. Doesn't make it any better when Bishops or even the Pope either promote with what is being done or don't stop such things.
 
Ajay said:
The first Crusade made some sense. IIRC, some Arab tribe came up from the south and wiped out a bunch of Christians in an area that is now modern Iraq. Then things got successively out of hand. Eventually the religious reason (like wanting control of Jerusalem) were just a cover for Noble families acquiring land and building wealth if the former Arab lands. Clearly, this wasn't inline with the teachings of Christ. I view such things as principally the abuse religion, as opposed the religious wars. Doesn't make them less horrible. Doesn't make it any better when Bishops or even the Pope either promote with what is being done or don't stop such things.
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Lol no. The People's Crusade wiped out Jews on their way to their own demise. The Turks were infighting for the Seljuk Empire. That is how the crusaders were able to sake and massacre Jerusalem. The Muslims allowed free passage to everyone into Jerusalem before the siege.

en.m.wikipedia.org

First Crusade - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
sdifox said:
Church proclaimed it a Holy War
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Yes. The Pope Declared i (well, I don't recall that Urban used those words). He panicked because of what below.
sdifox said:
Just because Byzantine military was getting humiliated.
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Which is were a bunch of Christians (military and civilians were killed**). It made sense that the Pope would be concerned. I think that's pretty obvious. The reaction was, with 20/20 hindsight, extreme and misguided As the articles on Wikipedia point out, Christians and Muslims had been at odds since Mohamed started the Muslim faith (he was considered a heretic by the Catholic Church). The other problem was that, in that time, the Catholic church was the central political power in Europe, no just a religious one. I do not think that is what Christ called the Church to be. Belatedly, this has been rectified. These terrible events, as I've said repeatedly, aren't due to religion, but to men in power who make terrible decisions in the name of religion. I think it is an important point, maybe you think there is no distinction.


** I thought the precipitating event happened in SE Anatolia (modern Iraq), maybe I'm wrong. I wasn't taking about the 1st crusade, but the event that triggered it.
 
I've had a PO Box for about 30 years. And even though I've ever only gone maybe once per week (and that was a while ago), I managed to wear out the brass key. So today they had to give me a shiny new one - well, two actually. God knows where the other old one could be. Probably a landfill except I tend to be very reluctant regarding disposing of shit.

The manager lady was very surprised. I'm sure businesses keep their POBs for that long and longer but I suppose it's odd for an individual.
 
21 posts to go and I've got till the weekend. I can do it. I"m smart enough (eh), good enough (ahaha) and pretty enough (not in the original quote) . . .
 
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