ATOT Lawyers: What happens to debt when a person dies?

[Gooberlx2]

Why people continue to ask for advice from completely unqualified people when it concerns their livelihood blows my mind. Call a damn lawyer and get real advice.

Well I, for one, am glad they bring the discussions here since I often find them interesting to read.

 

[dud]

OP, I have been an executor ... liquidating my father's estate. I have also hired attorneys before, for various legal reasons.

This is not advice, it is reality:

If you do end up hiring an attorney ... the only "winner" in this matter will be the attorney, period. The debt is $825 right? What's worth more to you, the car or the $825? The attorney will charge you about $300 an hour. You can sit and talk to him ... there goes $300! You can engage him to act in your defense ... there goes another $300 an hour.

The bottom line: avoid lawyers as you go through life. If you ultimately do have to deal with one you will be the poorer for it.

 

[DrPizza]

What about final costs - funeral etc., was that covered adequately by life insurance? Doesn't the estate also go toward paying those final costs? (just tossing something out that hasn't been brought up yet.)

 

[thepd7]

You probably owe the money if you claimed assets form his estate w/o all his debts being paid.

Talk to an attorney.

this.

I have a family full of attorneys... one happens to be a probate attorney, so I ran the following scenario by him based on my understanding of your situation:

- Your father passed
- You then transferred your father's only asset to your own name
- A debt is then called in, in the amount of $825
- Are you liable?

Based on his VERY limited knowledge of your situation, and my supposed understanding of your situation:

- the debt must be presented within 6 months of death (in his state of practice, yours may differ);
- there must be an estate from which to collect;
- since the vehicle was transferred AFTER the death, the vehicle then constitutes this estate;
- consequently, you must either pay the debt or return the vehicle to the estate. If you choose the latter, then as executor you must then liquidate the vehicle and take measures to satisfy the debt from the proceeds

Now, getting back to my own experience, you could try telling them that no estate exists from which to collect. They can check up on this, though, so think long and hard over whether or not it's worth the risk. Chances are they won't go to the trouble for $825, but you never know.

Nice, thanks for being helpful!

This is actually a very good suggestion IMHO. You're willing to satisfy the debt and meet your obligations, but you're making it a PITA to collect.

Some will object to my position on moral grounds (and frankly, I would, too), but if I were to be objective and act in pursuit of your goal (keeping the car), this is your safest, surest route.

I would certainly NOT let a collection agency know that to satifsy a debt they can come pick up an asset which might be worth much more than $825. I highly doubt your car would be around for more than a day or two.

 

[SR1729]

I would certainly NOT let a collection agency know that to satifsy a debt they can come pick up an asset which might be worth much more than $825. I highly doubt your car would be around for more than a day or two.

A good point, but something that seems to be getting glossed over it that his father passed away two years ago. It's rather unlikely that the debt can be collected at this point.

 

[Jadow]

if it were me, I'd just ignore it, 2 years is a long time. They'll have to take you to court to get it.

 

[SR1729]

if it were me, I'd just ignore it, 2 years is a long time. They'll have to take you to court to get it.

If they have a legal claim to the money (which does not appear to be the case), or at least think they do, they can drag your credit through the mud. I personally don't think ignoring it is a good idea. In the OP's case, a simple letter stating that their claim to the debt expired 18 months ago should straighten it all out. An attorney might draft such a letter for you for, too, which would carry a lot more weight. When I was dealing with several of the states for which I was executor, a letter from an attorney was all it took for the creditors to give up. When they see you've enlisted an attorney, they may decide you're not worth the effort.

 

[Kaervak]

Interestingly enough, I'm facing the same issue. My dad died a little over a week ago and had a ton of medical bills. The only asset in only his name is his car and it's barely worth $1,000. The house is in a trust so I'm pretty sure that's safe. We definitely need to talk to an attorney since the medical bills are a pretty big amount of money and not having to pay all that would make things so much easier.

 

[MJinZ]

OP, I have been an executor ... liquidating my father's estate. I have also hired attorneys before, for various legal reasons.

This is not advice, it is reality:

If you do end up hiring an attorney ... the only "winner" in this matter will be the attorney, period. The debt is $825 right? What's worth more to you, the car or the $825? The attorney will charge you about $300 an hour. You can sit and talk to him ... there goes $300! You can engage him to act in your defense ... there goes another $300 an hour.

The bottom line: avoid lawyers as you go through life. If you ultimately do have to deal with one you will be the poorer for it.

There are cheaper attorneys than $300/hr, and when it counts, attorneys back you up with insurance. If they mal-practice, you can sue THEM, and their malpractice insurance will pay YOU.

 

[bruceb]

Please see this link and .pdf file. Seem in New York there is a 6 year
statute of limitations, in which a creditor may still file a claim.

http://www.rc.com/documents/Claims against decedent estate_11 x 14_7-06.pdf

NEW YORK
In New York, a claim must be in writing, state the amount
sought, and contain a recitation of facts upon which the
claim is based. The fiduciary may require the creditor to
present proof by affidavit that (i) the amount sought is
justly due, (ii) any prior payments have been credited,
(iii) the creditor is not in possession of any undisclosed
collateral, and (iv) any indebtedness or other offset of the
creditor to the decedent has been accounted for.

NEW YORK
A New York fiduciary need not search for or send notice
to creditors. The law assumes that creditors exercising
ordinary diligence will send regular bills to the decedent
and the fiduciary will learn of claims through receipt of
the decedent’s bills. A creditor who learns of the death of a
debtor should send written notice of claim to the fiduciary.

Period for Filing Claims
Creditors must commence a lawsuit on unpaid claims
before the expiration of the applicable statute of
limitations. The period of statutes of limitation varies
depending upon the nature of the creditor’s claim. Actions
in contract, for example, typically have a longer statute of
limitations than actions for negligence. Death can trigger
special statutes of limitation intended to facilitate the
efficient settlement of estates.

NEW YORK
In New York, there is not a separate statute of limitations
that applies to claims against a decedent and enforced
against the decedent’s estate. Rather, the customary statute
of limitations to enforce a claim (e.g., six-year statute of
limitations for most contract claims) will continue to apply
to claims after a decedent’s death.

 

[BoT]

if you accept your fathers estate then you are also responsible for it's debts.
the estate includes any valuables, possessions, monies, debts, liens, properties, businesses, etc.

you can not resolve that persons savings account with 5k in it and not expect to not payback the 3k they still owe on their credit card.

if you take it, you take it all

 

[olds]

You probably owe the money if you claimed assets form his estate w/o all his debts being paid.

Talk to an attorney.

This.

 

[SR1729]

Interestingly enough, I'm facing the same issue. My dad died a little over a week ago and had a ton of medical bills. The only asset in only his name is his car and it's barely worth $1,000. The house is in a trust so I'm pretty sure that's safe. We definitely need to talk to an attorney since the medical bills are a pretty big amount of money and not having to pay all that would make things so much easier.

Prepare yourself for some fairly severe harassment. His creditors will try to convince you that, as his son, his debts are now yours. This is NOT true. Once his estate is insolvent, anyone still waiting in line is fucked, and they will try to make their fuckedness your problem when legally it is not.

 

[SR1729]

if you accept your fathers estate then you are also responsible for it's debts.

So so so SOOOOOO WRONG.

You do not "inherit" the debts of an estate (unless you are the spouse, in which the case the debts are already yours to begin with), and I have no idea where you'd get such an idea (unless you work for a debt collection agency and have been severely brainwashed).

Complete and utter nonsense.

A deceased individual's debts are paid off through their estate until a) they are all paid off, or b) the estate runs out of money. At no point does the estate's executor, the deceased's children, etc, "inherit" whatever debt remains.

 

[dud]

There are cheaper attorneys than $300/hr, and when it counts, attorneys back you up with insurance. If they mal-practice, you can sue THEM, and their malpractice insurance will pay YOU.

You live in a magical world of make believe ... don't you?

Please come back to reality ...

 

[mugs]

Do you all live in some magical place where lawyers are inexpensive? Hiring a lawyer over $825?

 

[BoT]

A deceased individual's debts are paid off through their estate until a) they are all paid off, or b) the estate runs out of money. At no point does the estate's executor, the deceased's children, etc, "inherit" whatever debt remains.

exactly, so if the deceased still owes money then his debt will be paid off with his estate. so usually and logically if the deceased owes more then he owns you would not accept the estate which includes all his belongings, in this case the car.
$825.- dollars for a car is not bad, even thou it's paid off already.

a lawyer will charge you a retainer which is a multiple of his hourly charge.
depending on the case 6-8 hours. so at best 6 hours at a low charge of $200 per hour, you end up with $1200 to start off and thats a pretty low ballpark figure. if the case is not settled after the first court appearance, which i doubt it will, then he will charge you for counseling and additional court appearances.
can get pretty pricey after a while

usually retainers are between $2000 - $3500

don't mean to discourage you but unless it's for a few thousand dollars it's not worth it.

 

[Slapstick]

Tell them to go fuck themselves.

In my state (and in most states, from what I was told by a probate attorney), collectors have 6 months from the date of death to notify the estate of the debt.

Or you can follow Slapstick's advice and write a check to anyone who calls you 😀

Well Skippy he can write a check to me anytime, but you better back the bus up you twit. I never said he should a write check to just anyone, but that any of his father's debtors could put a claim in against the estate. No one would expect him to pay for something that wasn't legitimately owed. If you read the OP's original post he was considered the executor of the estate and transferred an asset of the estate into his name. He didn't put a time frame in there, my bad I assumed it was recent, oh wait, so did you. Maybe it makes a difference, it really depends on when the claim was made and that is what the OP needs to find out.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

So from all the information you've gathered me, all assets and cash held by the deceased is added up and valued to a finite amount. The remaining debt in the name of the deceased is either fully paid for by the consolidated value or paid until said value has been exhausted.

Makes sense. But this would be far easier to swallow if the health care system wasn't such a rip off as it is in the US. But that is another issue saved for P&N...

I'll have to ask around to see if I can some sort of discounted(hopefully free) consultation before I go ahead with paying this off.

Thanks again fellas.

 

[BoT]

So from all the information you've gathered me, all assets and cash held by the deceased is added up and valued to a finite amount. The remaining debt in the name of the deceased is either fully paid for by the consolidated value or paid until said value has been exhausted.

that is correct

Makes sense. But this would be far easier to swallow if the health care system wasn't such a rip off as it is in the US. But that is another issue saved for P&N...

i can only imagine. having to go through all this while you morn a loved one is terrible.

it is pretty time consuming but many lawyers provide a initial free counseling.
take advantage of it. ask all the question you have. even better write them down and keep track. eventually you will end up with a good amount of information you need.

then you can either prepare the paper work yourself or have a paralegal do it.
paralegals are fairly affordable.

also check out your local or county court house, they often have very helpful info on there websites regarding court proceedings.

if you have a college in your area that focuses on law, they often have law students provide free legal help.

if you have a relative or friend in the military, maybe they can present your case as their own to get some information. walk you through it etc

i wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do and would like to extend my condolences for your loss.

 

[squirrel dog]

I have in the recent past mailed a copy of the death certificate to debtors and never heard back from them.Some may require a real copy,not a kinko copy.

 

[SR1729]

I never said he should a write check to just anyone, but that any of his father's debtors could put a claim in against the estate.

Bullshit, Skippy McTwitpants. You said, and I quote:

The estate is responsible for the debt. The car was part of your dad's estate so yes it's a legal claim. Pay up.

There are countless scenarios where the estate wouldn't be responsible for the debt and/or he wouldn't have to "pay up", yet your "advice" left zero room for any of these scenarios.

He didn't put a time frame in there, my bad I assumed it was recent, oh wait, so did you.

Except you allowed for no provisions when it wouldn't be his responsibility. I clearly did.

Maybe it makes a difference

It certainly makes a difference, which is why your advice sucked so much. Quit defending it.

 

[Onita]

You live in a magical world of make believe ... don't you?

Please come back to reality ...

Many, many attorneys are cheaper than $300/hr. Also, many will give you a free consultation.

 

[SR1729]

Many, many attorneys are cheaper than $300/hr. Also, many will give you a free consultation.

The probate attorney in my family charges $200 - $250 an hour, depending on the task. One of the other attorneys in my family (divorce attorney) charges $350 - $400.

Attorney fees run the gamut, and unfortunately, are not always indicative of quality, experience, and education.

Other question you should ask, in addition to fees, is how they bill. The first attorney I mentioned bills in 10-minute increments. The second one I mentioned bills in 30-minute increments. In many cases, an attorney who charges a higher rate might actually be cheaper, because all of your 5-minute phone calls add up to substantially different bills.

 

[Slapstick]

Bullshit, Skippy McTwitpants. You said, and I quote:



There are countless scenarios where the estate wouldn't be responsible for the debt and/or he wouldn't have to "pay up", yet your "advice" left zero room for any of these scenarios.



Except you allowed for no provisions when it wouldn't be his responsibility. I clearly did.



It certainly makes a difference, which is why your advice sucked so much. Quit defending it.

My advice is fine if you have a brain that actually functions and is able to extrapolate possible outcomes. What part of estate = car, car = asset, assets of estate goes toward debt, don't you understand? That's about as simple as I can put it so quit trying to act like an intellectual and actually use the shit you call a brain and think. Simple questions require simple answers, if you really want to get into it there are pages and pages you could write about probate law, ask your pretend family member, ( yea the advice you posted that he supposedly gave was nothing more than a cut, paste and edit job off a web site), which actually is fine but you on the other hand seem to be a little insecure twit that has to post as many snide, look how superior I am comments as you can in a thread and then throw pretend families members to try and prove your point. I guess you still play make believe and pretent to be all grown up too bad you fail!. What a sad pathetic little man you must be. You have my sympathy.