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Atot carpenters or structural engineers opinions needed

OILFIELDTRASH

OILFIELDTRASH

Lifer
Looking at buying this home and it has an issue. The ceiling of the garage is bowing in the middle and from the outside of the house you can see the roof sagging over the garage. It is not Sheetrock sagging but the 2x4's itself. I had it inspected and he recommended a structural engineers report on the report but off the record said he believes a good carpenter could handle it. The seller has agreed to have a carpenter look at it. I'm kinda leery since I didn't pick this guy myself.

I guess my questions are:
Is this something a structural engineer should look at or is it small enough that any carpenter could take care of?
Would you trust a contractors work that you didn't pick?
Thanks in advance.
I'm on my iPhone so I can't post pics as of right now.
 
OILFIELDTRASH said:
Looking at buying this home and it has an issue. The ceiling of the garage is bowing in the middle and from the outside of the house you can see the roof sagging over the garage. It is not Sheetrock sagging but the 2x4's itself. I had it inspected and he recommended a structural engineers report on the report but off the record said he believes a good carpenter could handle it. The seller has agreed to have a carpenter look at it. I'm kinda leery since I didn't pick this guy myself.

I guess my questions are:
Is this something a structural engineer should look at or is it small enough that any carpenter could take care of?
Would you trust a contractors work that you didn't pick?
Thanks in advance.
I'm on my iPhone so I can't post pics as of right now.
Click to expand...
Structural engineers normally do not work on "simple" single residential construction, because their time is expensive and building code should be sufficient. Hence, a qualify tradesman should be able to follow the codes for the repair.
 
iGas said:
Structural engineers normally do not work on "simple" single residential construction, because their time is expensive and building code should be sufficient. Hence, a qualify tradesman should be able to follow the codes for the repair.
Click to expand...

And they probably know more than any structural engineers.
 
Most tradesmen will know what they're doing in regards to this. Structural engineers will deal with these things, and if you know one who will do it for free, go for it. Most structural engineers have training in timber structures.

That said, get a carpenter to do it. They likely know more of the day to day stuff and can easily handle that. And I say that as the grandson of a carpenter and being a civil engineering student.

Also, depending on where you are, a structural engineer may be required to look at it instead of a carpenter.
 
Thats a very concerning situation! The fact that the roof and the garage ceiling are sagging indicates seperate problems, roof sagging would indicate inadequate or broken roof joists and the sagging ceiling would indicate the lack of a proper supporting beam and/or across the garage (usually a double 1x12 in double car gargage). The aren't problems than can be easily repaired correctly.

These are basic structural components, and could indicate poor or improper support throughout the house. I would definately have an experienced carpenter look it over.
 
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Definitely not going to be easy or cheap to fix.

There may be faulty/broken trusses or beams.

I don't think a structural engineer would be necessary. A good, licensed & bonded carpenter or roofing company should be able to diagnose the problem and fix it.
 
How old is the house?

Framing roofs and running ceiling joists with no live load using full sized 2x4s (actually measure 2" x 4") used to be a common practice, and they may just be sagging with age. Assuming the foundation and stuff is good, many carpenters will probably just want to run a couple of laminated beams the shorter distance and brace one or two runs of purlins from the rafters to those.

http://www.jwkhomeinspections.com/b...-ties-purlins-san-antonio-home-inspector.html


To fix the sag in the ceiling the quick fix is to jack up the ceiling to near flat, then sister new larger ceiling joists to the older ones.

http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-P...-structural-repairs-by-sistering-floor-joists
 
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Modelworks said:
If the roof is framed with 2x4's the only fix is to completely remove it. 2x4's are not for roof framing.
Click to expand...

Trusses are made from 2x4's almost exclusively, removing the roof would almost be crazy except for severe damage from rot or fire, etc.

Assuming this is a gable roof, sagging ridge/splayed walls are not that big of deal. A decent framing contractor will be able to repair it at a relatively small cost in a day or two.
 
OILFIELDTRASH said:
Looking at buying this home and it has an issue. The ceiling of the garage is bowing in the middle and from the outside of the house you can see the roof sagging over the garage. It is not Sheetrock sagging but the 2x4's itself. I had it inspected and he recommended a structural engineers report on the report but off the record said he believes a good carpenter could handle it. The seller has agreed to have a carpenter look at it. I'm kinda leery since I didn't pick this guy myself.

I guess my questions are:
Is this something a structural engineer should look at or is it small enough that any carpenter could take care of?
Would you trust a contractors work that you didn't pick?
Thanks in advance.
I'm on my iPhone so I can't post pics as of right now.
Click to expand...

if the ceiling is bowing in the middle, it is probably just an under-designed roof. 2x4's are pretty small, and if it's a garage the span is probably 10' or more, which will probably lead to unacceptable sagging if your area receives any respectable amount of snow at all.

poke around and look for: splitting of the wood (at the underside, and at the supports), mold, warping, and other signs of obvious distress. did the sheetrock crack at all? are the walls still plumb?

what's most likely going to happen: carpenter will reinforce the joists with 2x6 or 2x8 and call it a day. you'll still probably have a sagging roof problem, unless you decide to jack the ceiling. in which case you'll need a structural engineer to help you out (unless the carpenter is familiar with these procedures). also, check to see if the waterproofing at the roof is still intact and that there is no potential for ponding of water, which can cause issues later on.
 
Need pics.

My best guess was stated above: 2x4 constructed trusses that were inadequate. Perhaps they were intended to be spaced 16" on center and someone installed them spaced 24" on center.

Else, if 2x6 construction without trusses, then perhaps the same issue: ceiling spaced 24" on center instead of 16" - and not intended to be finished. The load of the drywall, over a couple decades, might be enough to make it bow, but I'd be skeptical. However, if they used 2x6's for the rafters, and 2x4's for the ceiling, then sure, the ceiling would eventually bow. But, that wouldn't explain the ridge.

Also, did you check to make sure the walls are plumb? If the walls are leaning out slightly toward the center of the length of the garage, then the roof will bow in a little.
 
These are pics from inspection report
bracing.png

garage.png

saginroof.png
 
Those 2 x 4's look to be 18 or even 24 on center and there doesn't appear to be ANY trusses except the "bracing" that was "installed." None of that is up to code anywhere in the U.S. If that pic is indicative of the entire garage roof, you've got some serious structural issues. It makes me wonder if the garage is this bad, what corners did they cut on the houses roof?
 
As someone with structural engineering training... lol. Whoever "braced" (probably the last owner) obviously didn't know what they were doing. Supporting the new bracing with the ceiling was even dumber...

Call a contractor to check it out. A competent one could take care of it for you, and they'll know if they need a permit or not.
 
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