Atlantic article on the current state of Venezuela

[UglyCasanova]

Their whole oil and gas transmission and refining systems are getting ready to crash as the OEM's will only sell parts to them on a secured cash transaction.

If their whole infrastructure grinds to a halt and Venezuelan crude stops flowing, even just for a while, I wonder if that will be enough to swing oil prices up and give some breathing room to other strapped economies (including some here at home).

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I distinctly remember the circle jerk around Chavez and later Maduro when they first got into office by some folks here who thought they were proof incarnate that there is such a thing as a "FREE" lunch in life and that you could eat the wealthy and eat private industry without any sort of economic repercussions.

The amount of mental gymnastics used to pretend these two and their marxist bullshit economic policies were not leading Venezuela down the toilet was pretty intense. Especially when you had famously stupid Hollywood actors and directors supporting these two fuck ups and then some folks proceed to use guys like Oliver Stone, Danny Glover, Sean Penn, etc in an appeal to authority to defend this disaster.

And LegendKiller was/is right about this occurring (i.e. due to the clusterfuck of Chavez and later Maduro adherence to their marxist economic policies in general) regardless of the price of oil as Venezuela was encountering a rather large rise in inflation spikes, shortages, etc back when the price of oil was around 100+ dollars a barrel and Chavez was still alive and kicking. In the end Venezuela should be a rather glaring and obvious lesson to many people but I have a gut feeling that some folks will just dig a hole and bury their heads (jump into their "Safe Space") to avoid this particular uncomfortable truth of the failure of believing you can have government efficiently run an entire economy. Hint: YOU CAN"T ! In fact it's the big reason why even the Chinese, Vietnamese, etc abandoned the bullshit of centralized planning.

 

[boomerang]

Will our institutions of higher learning cite Venezuela as the failure that it has become or will the indoctrination continue with the result being that more Bernouts are created?

I predict the dream of a utopian society fueled by the evil rich will live on. Academia has got a lot invested.

 

[Exterous]

I distinctly remember the circle jerk around Chavez and later Maduro when they first got into office by some folks here who thought they were proof incarnate that there is such a thing as a "FREE" lunch in life and that you could eat the wealthy and private industry without any sort of economic repercussions.

Hmmm...I wonder where AzN and Steeplerot are these days?

 

[PokerGuy]

Screenshot from Salon (another fine example of liberal "thought" ) from 2013.

How are those "economic miracles" working out now??

Unfortunately for the people of Venezuela, they can't start to get things fixed until there's a revolt and the commies are thrown out. Even then it's going to take a long time.....

 

[Spungo]

Screenshot from Salon (another fine example of liberal "thought" ) from 2013.

Even better is when the regressive left steals ideas from Stormfront.
https://youtu.be/O-PefbhDySE?t=58
It's a "progressive" PAC devoted to getting white people out of politics. You know, those people who created the greatest political system the world has ever known.

 

[werepossum]

Hmmm...I wonder where AzN and Steeplerot are these days?

I miss Steeplerot. Dude has a great sense of humor.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

Elasticity of supply is definitely a relevant idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_supply

If supply is inelastic, a modest price cap is not likely to reduce supply very much. But my issue is more that you offer this glib economic principal which is not wrong, but you're not talking about the actual issues at play.

For example, someone brought up the price caps on gasoline after Hurricane Sandy. That had absolutely nothing to do with the marginal cost of producing a gallon of gas. The question was, should we let someone "gouge" or charge $100 a gallon or whatever because something is suddenly scarce. I can see arguments both ways FWIW. Yes, price caps in that situation would absolutely result in shortages. But I don't think it's terribly unreasonable, in that limited case, to say that a market solution is not best.

The problem with your scenario is that you and the government have no right whatsoever to arbitrarily appropriate private goods for your purposes regardless of how well-intentioned they may be and that's a good thing.

In the case of Sandy the gas station that charges $100 a gallon for the fuel they have on hand will then be able to afford to pay a premium to get MORE fuel delivered into the disaster zone. If you place price controls on the fuel then the gas station may sell out and then close up shop or else they'll simply sell their fuel at a market price without your permission.

The price of the fuel has to be enough to justify REPLENISHING the fuel or else there won't be any more fuel. Pass all the laws you want, you can't legislate past this reality of enterprise.

Interrupting the market means that the market will cease to function...as it has done in Venezuela where people like yourself imposed regulations on business that didn't take into account the fact that those regulations would stop business activity entirely.

It never works.

 

[Spungo]

In the case of Sandy the gas station that charges $100 a gallon for the fuel they have on hand will then be able to afford to pay a premium to get MORE fuel delivered into the disaster zone. If you place price controls on the fuel then the gas station may sell out and then close up shop or else they'll simply sell their fuel at a market price without your permission.

This is also true of San Francisco real estate. The tenant laws in that city are just ridiculous, so it leads to a shortage of living space. On a risk adjusted basis, it's not worth renting out property, so people don't. If you rent out a spare bedroom, you might be stuck with some asshole who refuses to pay the rent but can't legally be evicted. It's better to just leave the bedroom empty. In every other part of the country, being a landlord is not a big deal. The guy doesn't pay the rent, you kick him out.

 

[Jaskalas]

Caribbean islands warned as Venezuela collapses

The mayor of Chacao in Venezuela’s capital Caracas has warned that Caribbean islands and Colombia may suffer an influx of refugees from Venezuela if food shortages continue in the country.

Syrian refugees... meet Venezuelan refugees.
What can the world do to provide stability in this situation?

It's not like they have massive tribal warfare... yet. But that's what humans do, and that's what's next if order cannot be restored.

 

[Zorkorist]

It's pretty easy.

Overthrow Venezuelas Government.

Start fresh.

-John

 

[UglyCasanova]

It's pretty easy.

Overthrow Venezuelas Government. Kill them and their cronies.

Start fresh.

-John

It's a sad situation, but yeah I'd agree and it looks as if that will happen (with the exception of the killing part) sooner rather than later. Venezuela has the resources to be a successful country, but they've collectively drank the "free shit" kool-aid long enough that I'm not convinced the country has the political will to make the needed structural reforms happen in order to get their markets working.

Empty shelves have a way of changing minds though.

 

[Jodell88]

Caribbean islands warned as Venezuela collapses

That's about two years too late.

 

[LegendKiller]

It's a sad situation, but yeah I'd agree and it looks as if that will happen (with the exception of the killing part) sooner rather than later. Venezuela has the resources to be a successful country, but they've collectively drank the "free shit" kool-aid long enough that I'm not convinced the country has the political will to make the needed structural reforms happen in order to get their markets working.

Empty shelves have a way of changing minds though.

There are some countries and some people that will never figure out how to lever themselves up. Look at Argentina or Brazil. Both corrupt as fuck, both hapless in preventing it, both stuck in economic purgatory.

 

[Jaskalas]

Mob burns Venezuelan man alive over $5

As rule of law fails from lack of basic necessities... mob violence turns to gang violence... turns to base tribalism. Whatever state existed is quickly eroding. Without a strong reversal in fortune you're looking at a South American version of Afghanistan.

Is it possible to organize some sort of food drive, where the international community at least gives them bread lines? Surely there are plans for what to do to stem total collapse of nations.

 

[Genx87]

This place is going to be the next Syria.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...uld-have-been-so-rich-but-ended-up-this-poor/

 

[PokerGuy]

This place is going to be the next Syria.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...uld-have-been-so-rich-but-ended-up-this-poor/

Basically, the "socialists" (really, fascist communists) ran one of the best countries in South America into the ground to the point of people hunting cats and dogs because they are starving and there are no meds available in hospitals for even basic things.

Truly sad, I feel bad for those who didn't have a hand in bringing and keeping Chavez and his scum in power. Those who did deserve everything they are getting.

 

[Knowing]

If their whole infrastructure grinds to a halt and Venezuelan crude stops flowing, even just for a while, I wonder if that will be enough to swing oil prices up and give some breathing room to other strapped economies (including some here at home).

The price of oil is going up because some people need it to go up. If it just so happens that there's a problem with supply then that will just make it easier for the people who need the price of oil to be elevated to make that happen.

 

[UglyCasanova]

All production of Coke stops in Venezuala, good thing they are still making plenty next door.

 

[1prophet]

The problem with your scenario is that you and the government have no right whatsoever to arbitrarily appropriate private goods for your purposes regardless of how well-intentioned they may be and that's a good thing.

In the case of Sandy the gas station that charges $100 a gallon for the fuel they have on hand will then be able to afford to pay a premium to get MORE fuel delivered into the disaster zone. If you place price controls on the fuel then the gas station may sell out and then close up shop or else they'll simply sell their fuel at a market price without your permission.

The price of the fuel has to be enough to justify REPLENISHING the fuel or else there won't be any more fuel. Pass all the laws you want, you can't legislate past this reality of enterprise.

Interrupting the market means that the market will cease to function...as it has done in Venezuela where people like yourself imposed regulations on business that didn't take into account the fact that those regulations would stop business activity entirely.

It never works.

Selfish Assholes like this, under the guise of capitalism

Is why you end up with egotistical dictators like this pretending to be saviors of the people and making things worse.

But as long as you are getting your $100.00 for a gallon of gas, or Daraprim from US$13.5 to US$750 per tablet it's all good.

 

[K1052]

This is also true of San Francisco real estate. The tenant laws in that city are just ridiculous, so it leads to a shortage of living space. On a risk adjusted basis, it's not worth renting out property, so people don't. If you rent out a spare bedroom, you might be stuck with some asshole who refuses to pay the rent but can't legally be evicted. It's better to just leave the bedroom empty. In every other part of the country, being a landlord is not a big deal. The guy doesn't pay the rent, you kick him out.

The lack of actually building sufficient new housing has caused massive rent increases and a housing shortage, not rent control or renter protections.

 

[Sinsear]

Hmmm...I wonder where AzN and Steeplerot are these days?

Where's Craig? He also loved to champion Venezuela & it's leaders.

 

[Jaskalas]

Venezuela is collapsing and the military just got involved

It was against this backdrop that the Defence Minister appeared on state television this week.

"Venezuela is threatened," he said. "This is the first time we are carrying out an exercise of this nature in the country. In terms of national reach, it's going to be in every strategic region."

And then this jewel...

Maduro has also made dangerously anti-democratic statements, telling foreign journalists that parliament has "lost political validity" and "it's a matter of time before it disappears."

Military is deployed. Now they get to decide whose side they're on.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The lack of actually building sufficient new housing has caused massive rent increases and a housing shortage, not rent control or renter protections.

That can be attributed directly to the expense of dealing with SF's horrendous permitting system that is nothing more than a shake down and which permits NIMBY's (which are abundant in SF) to stifle construction projects for every reason under the sun. So what you have left in SF after all the regulation, taxation, mandates, etc is a stratified layer of society where the middle-class, small and some medium sized businesses owners are pushed out because the playing field is only affordable to the very wealthy or those who are completely and utterly subsidized for by city government wicho always panders to them first with housing needs.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Selfish Assholes like this, under the guise of capitalism

Is why you end up with egotistical dictators like this pretending to be saviors of the people and making things worse.

But as long as you are getting your $100.00 for a gallon of gas, or Daraprim from US$13.5 to US$750 per tablet it's all good.

That's about as cogent of an argument as saying "If certain women didn't dress up in low cut dresses we wouldn't have Ted Buddy's of the world.". It certainly a nice straw man and a classic left wing shifting of the blame argument.