Atlantic article on the current state of Venezuela

[UglyCasanova]

Link


Pretty damning stuff, and I've read similar on the NYT and elsewhere. I can't help but think this time next year the Venezuelan government will look totally different, and the course to get to wherever it ends up will be a very rocky one.

It's easy to blame low oil prices on all of their misery, but there are oil dependent economies around the globe (and including my home state of Louisiana) that aren't fairing nearly as bad. The glut in oil only served to showcase just how dysfunctional their government and economy is.

 

[LegendKiller]

Their problem has next to nothing to do with the low oil prices. It would have occurred either way. They took the traditional socialist mentality and sucked the state dry giving promising everybody to everything and inefficiently allocated scarce resources. Rather than improving infrastructure, maintaining oil fields, they squandered everything.

This is what the Middle East looks like in a few decades. Add to that religious fundamentalism and you get a powderkeg.

 

[UglyCasanova]

NYT article on their hospitals


Horrible.

 

[Knowing]

Slate article on their basic health consumer products

Bloomberg article on their inability to afford to buy currency

Perhaps they should declare the former equal to the latter and solve one of their problems?

 

[theeedude]

Sanders supporters should read these.

 

[theeedude]

Slate article on their basic health consumer products

Slate is one of the biggest Bernie pushers. Maybe they should read their own articles to see where that Socialist road of empty promises leads.

 

[glenn1]

Slate is one of the biggest Bernie pushers. Maybe they should read their own articles to see where that Socialist road of empty promises leads.

Bernie Sanders supporters mock American Exceptionalism except when it comes to the perceived ability of the U.S. to implement social welfare better than any other place. Plus actually improving the life of the proles is a distant secondary goal to the primary objective of hurting the wealthy that animates both Chavismo and Sanders believers.

 

[Genx87]

Sounds like a great place. A true socialist utopia. How did this happen for the 10371238907th time with this economic system? Danny Glover should give back the 18 million he stole from their people.

 

[theeedude]

That's one of my issues with Bernie. He bashes too much and too broadly. I want the government to break up monopolies and improve competition. I want taxes to be more progressive, especially on nonproductive rent-seeking income. But not every corporation is bad, and not even all of Wall Street is bad, but if you hear Bernie talk, he never has a nice word to say about any business. That's just stupid. Ultimately it's taxes on successful businesses and individuals that pay for social programs. Which is fine, but if you make promises but attack success, you end up like Venezuela.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Sanders supporters should read these.

While I know this is debateable, there's a far cry between the limited socialist based policies Bernie wants to employ versus a locked down, 'authoritarian socialist dictatorship' that is Venezuela.

 

[theeedude]

While I know this is debateable, there's a far cry between the limited socialist based policies Bernie wants to employ versus a locked down, 'authoritarian socialist dictatorship' that is Venezuela.

Road to hell is paved with good intentions. All these dictators got elected on big promises to angry voters.

 

[Genx87]

While I know this is debateable, there's a far cry between the limited socialist based policies Bernie wants to employ versus a locked down, 'authoritarian socialist dictatorship' that is Venezuela.

The problem is Sanders history suggests he is on board with pushing for a utopian dream we see in places like VZ. When Sanders talks about Europe I dont think he even knows what he is discussing. Or if he does he thinks his followers dont understand. Europe in some cases has a more free open market than we do here. And with less govt interference. I dont for one second believe when Sanders talks about Europe he is talking about giving up control and not intervening with the force of govt in the markets.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia. So the socialists really only had one job; pump the oil. But no. The had to nationalize the oil sector and drive it into the ground. So now it's somehow all a U.S. and OPEC plot? If this is the best Maduro can do, maybe it's time he started to think about where he'd like to live when he flees for Cuba.

 

[yllus]

I wonder if there's ever been an instance of price controls leading to a positive instead of directly to a scarcity and a black market.

 

[Genx87]

I wonder if there's ever been an instance of price controls leading to a positive instead of directly to a scarcity and a black market.

I cant think of any. Honestly even in Hurricane Sandy all the price controls did was create a black market for gasoline as supply was far outstripped by demand.

Now think about past example of price controls and apply it to Sanders and Trumps ideas on labor.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I wonder if there's ever been an instance of price controls leading to a positive instead of directly to a scarcity and a black market.

I'm sure that you can find examples that had a "positive" outcome for whomever wanted it implemented, but given that it is a fundamental force of economics if the price is set below the marginal cost of the product/service then at least a little scarcity is inevitable. And the problem gets worse the farther the two numbers are apart from each other.

 

[Blackjack200]

I'm sure that you can find examples that had a "positive" outcome for whomever wanted it implemented, but given that it is a fundamental force of economics if the price is set below the marginal cost of the product/service then at least a little scarcity is inevitable. And the problem gets worse the farther the two numbers are apart from each other.

Wow, that is a really superficial understanding of supply and demand.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Wow, that is a really superficial understanding of supply and demand.

Do explain.

 

[Blackjack200]

Do explain.

You left out any discussion of elasticity of supply or demand, you left out any discussion of substitutes, you left out any discussion of how the price controls function, and you didn't seem to consider why they might be needed, or what might be used instead.

 

[UglyCasanova]

You left out any discussion of elasticity of supply or demand, you left out any discussion of substitutes, you left out any discussion of how the price controls function, and you didn't seem to consider why they might be needed, or what might be used instead.

All of that is related to demand rather than supply. I don't think price elasticity or substitutions have any bearing on a ceiling being placed on a price resulting in shortages due to the marginal cost exceeding the price.

 

[Blackjack200]

Elasticity of supply is definitely a relevant idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_supply

If supply is inelastic, a modest price cap is not likely to reduce supply very much. But my issue is more that you offer this glib economic principal which is not wrong, but you're not talking about the actual issues at play.

For example, someone brought up the price caps on gasoline after Hurricane Sandy. That had absolutely nothing to do with the marginal cost of producing a gallon of gas. The question was, should we let someone "gouge" or charge $100 a gallon or whatever because something is suddenly scarce. I can see arguments both ways FWIW. Yes, price caps in that situation would absolutely result in shortages. But I don't think it's terribly unreasonable, in that limited case, to say that a market solution is not best.

 

[yllus]

Oh look, the Venezuelan president's solution is to expropriate more private businesses and property to solve the problem of the corrupt and inefficient government mucking up everything it touches.

Yahoo - Venezuela emergency decree boosts security powers

Caracas (AFP) - Venezuela's army is to be backed by civilians grouped into ancillary security units, to tackle food shortages and public unrest, under a state of emergency decree published on Monday.

The decree, published in the government gazette, brings into effect for at least 60 days sweeping powers President Nicolas Maduro announced on Friday.

The measures give his government and security forces broad authorization to ignore most constitutional safeguards in a bid to keep order and supply basic food and services, and to counter a crippling energy shortage.

...

Individuals, companies or non-governmental organizations in Venezuela with links to foreign entities are to be put under scrutiny and their finances frozen if deemed to be political or destabilizing.

The text also opens the way to expropriations of businesses not seen to be doing enough to supply staple foodstuffs, and other steps as needed as long as they don't violate constitutional protections on human rights.

 

[brycejones]

Oh look, the Venezuelan president's solution is to expropriate more private businesses and property to solve the problem of the corrupt and inefficient government mucking up everything it touches.

Yahoo - Venezuela emergency decree boosts security powers

Unfortunately they are screwed until there is a popular uprising.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It really is only a matter of time.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Their whole oil and gas transmission and refining systems are getting ready to crash as the OEM's will only sell parts to them on a secured cash transaction.