Atlantic article: Attempts to dissect the origins of current Republican cray cray

[HomerJS]

Good summary of what we've been seeing from those people (intentional for effect)
The Capitol Riot and White Conservatives' Extremism - The Atlantic

 

[Amused]

Good summary of what we've been seeing from those people (intentional for effect)
The Capitol Riot and White Conservatives' Extremism - The Atlantic

Ya know, you'd think after every single last prediction made about Obama failed to materialize, these idiots would have done what I did: Realized the right-wing media is merely a propaganda psi-op and ignore them.

I was done believing the right-wing had ANY credibility by 2012. Absolutely done. By then I had realized they had become a dangerous cult of extremism.

I know. I was late. But not as late as the rest of these tools.

 

[Commodus]

The 9/11 analogy is apt, as I think a lot of the modern apocalyptic mindset from American conservatives stems from those attacks.

Many people rallied behind Bush Jr. in the aftermath of 9/11 (whether it was justified or not), but conservatives in particular seemed to treat the attacks as giving the GOP a divine right to rule. Only Republicans could fight terrorism, so Republicans needed to lead the country forever. Hence why some saw Obama as a "secret Muslim" (who also went to an extremist church, if you believed the rhetoric) who would surely let terrorists destroy the US from the inside.

Trump's racist and sexist dogwhistles are different, but he arguably capitalized on 16 years of particularly fear-driven conservative politics.

 

[Moonbeam]

Atlantic has some good articles in my opinion. Haven't read this one yet so don't know the author's opinion but it is my belief that conservatism is the result of using fear as a methodology to control children's behavior. Once the pain of punishment for wrong-doing becomes so great that a child fears getting caught in it becomes psychically intolerable, the child will create an identity, an ego front that will use any means to present an idyllic face. That face will adhere to any external that is worshiped by the parents and eventually others of the same ilk.

My guess is that this is probably not what the article suggests because this kind of knowledge is only knowable and discovered by those who have gone deep within themselves by one means or another. Those of us who have not can maybe see it indirectly in how we ourselves try to deflect any notions we may be guilty of something or lacking somehow. When we learn to hate ourselves that truth becomes the universal enemy. This is why the statement, we have met the enemy and he is us is so so very true. It is also why ones own personal salvation depends of the forgiveness of the other, the projection of the truth we will not see as having its origin within.

 

[Commodus]

Atlantic has some good articles in my opinion. Haven't read this one yet so don't know the author's opinion but it is my belief that conservatism is the result of using fear as a methodology to control children's behavior. Once the pain of punishment for wrong-doing becomes so great that a child fears getting caught in it becomes psychically intolerable, the child will create an identity, an ego front that will use any means to present an idyllic face. That face will adhere to any external that is worshiped by the parents and eventually others of the same ilk.

My guess is that this is probably not what the article suggests because this kind of knowledge is only knowable and discovered by those who have gone deep within themselves by one means or another. Those of us who have not can maybe see it indirectly in how we ourselves try to deflect any notions we may be guilty of something or lacking somehow. When we learn to hate ourselves that truth becomes the universal enemy. This is why the statement, we have met the enemy and he is us is so so very true. It is also why ones own personal salvation depends of the forgiveness of the other, the projection of the truth we will not see as having its origin within.

You're overthinking things.

While I don't believe the science has entirely settled yet, there are indications that genetics play a role in empathy. Get the wrong genome and you have trouble caring for anyone besides yourself. If that's the case, that would partly explain why conservatives are frequently selfish and afraid of anything that doesn't resemble their immediate family or community.

Combine that with cultural isolation (many Americans don't even know people from other ethnic groups, let alone leave the US) and a gradual refusal to engage with outside views and it's easy to see why modern conservative politics is gripped by fear: it's easy to sway people who hate change and can't understand why everyone isn't like them.

 

[shortylickens]

Ya know, you'd think after every single last prediction made about Obama failed to materialize, these idiots would have done what I did: Realized the right-wing media is merely a propaganda psi-op and ignore them.

I was done believing the right-wing had ANY credibility by 2012. Absolutely done. By then I had realized they had become a dangerous cult of extremism.

I know. I was late. But not as late as the rest of these tools.

Yeah I remember politics a little bit during the Clinton years and aside from the infidelity just about everything they accused him of was complete lies.
And everything they said about Obama was lies. Except the tan suit of course. That one was true.

 

[Aikouka]

My mom (68) voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, and I had been wondering what it was that promoted those decisions, but I think it's a bit more clear now. My mom is one of those people that idolizes the baby boomer era where having a simple factory job was enough to own a simple home and support your simple family. Along those lines, I can recall many, many times over the years where she has spoken ill of NAFTA, and consequently, has voted for people like Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. (Those two had very anti-NAFTA stances.)

I don't think my mom's heart is in the wrong place, but I don't think she's approaching it properly. The problem is that donning those rose-colored glasses is inherently ignoring how the world has changed since the 50's and 60's... even apart from the ratification of NAFTA. We may not have the plethora of manufacturing jobs, but we do have plenty of service jobs in our economy. These jobs help satisfy the over-stretched American consumer (don't have time to cook dinner, order out!), or simply say "we'll do the job that you don't want to do!" (cook dinner, mow the lawn, etc.). So, in my mind, why not take off the rose-colored glasses, and support current-generation policies that will help foster the same changes such as better minimum wages or better social programs. In other words, you either pay people a livable wage, or support them with social programs that effectively do the same thing while letting people feel good that they "out-earn the Plebes".

So, in short, I think people like my mom are stuck in their own time, and aren't able to see that there are more modern solutions to the problems that they rant about.

 

[MrSquished]

My mom (68) voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, and I had been wondering what it was that promoted those decisions, but I think it's a bit more clear now. My mom is one of those people that idolizes the baby boomer era where having a simple factory job was enough to own a simple home and support your simple family. Along those lines, I can recall many, many times over the years where she has spoken ill of NAFTA, and consequently, has voted for people like Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. (Those two had very anti-NAFTA stances.)

I don't think my mom's heart is in the wrong place, but I don't think she's approaching it properly. The problem is that donning those rose-colored glasses is inherently ignoring how the world has changed since the 50's and 60's... even apart from the ratification of NAFTA. We may not have the plethora of manufacturing jobs, but we do have plenty of service jobs in our economy. These jobs help satisfy the over-stretched American consumer (don't have time to cook dinner, order out!), or simply say "we'll do the job that you don't want to do!" (cook dinner, mow the lawn, etc.). So, in my mind, why not take off the rose-colored glasses, and support current-generation policies that will help foster the same changes such as better minimum wages or better social programs. In other words, you either pay people a livable wage, or support them with social programs that effectively do the same thing while letting people feel good that they "out-earn the Plebes".

So, in short, I think people like my mom are stuck in their own time, and aren't able to see that there are more modern solutions to the problems that they rant about.

NAFTA was dreamt up by Reagan, negotiated by Bush and then implemented by Clinton, who tweaked what the Bush administration had negotiated with some stronger rules on labor with Mexico, but not nearly strong enough. A lot of guilty parties were involved. While it passed in a bipartisan vote, overall more Democrats opposed than supported it, including some high ranking Dems like House Majority Leader Richard Gephardt (Mo.) and House Majority Whip David Bonior (Mich.). I remember the Battle in Seattle in 1993, it was leftist protestors out there protesting against NAFTA. Ultimately we got fucked by bipartisan legislation backed by big business. Ditto with normalizing trade relations permanently with China in 2000. Another big business lobbying win. They run the country.

 

[dawp]

Yeah I remember politics a little bit during the Clinton years and aside from the infidelity just about everything they accused him of was complete lies.
And everything they said about Obama was lies. Except the tan suit of course. That one was true.

and that funny mustard

 

[shortylickens]

The 9/11 analogy is apt, as I think a lot of the modern apocalyptic mindset from American conservatives stems from those attacks.

Many people rallied behind Bush Jr. in the aftermath of 9/11 (whether it was justified or not), but conservatives in particular seemed to treat the attacks as giving the GOP a divine right to rule. Only Republicans could fight terrorism, so Republicans needed to lead the country forever. Hence why some saw Obama as a "secret Muslim" (who also went to an extremist church, if you believed the rhetoric) who would surely let terrorists destroy the US from the inside.

Trump's racist and sexist dogwhistles are different, but he arguably capitalized on 16 years of particularly fear-driven conservative politics.

Its funny to me that conservatives insistence we fuck around in the middle east was the direct cause of extremist muslims attacking our country, but for some reason the conservative brain only remembers what it wants to.
Then if you didnt blindly go along with the war-mongering afterwards you were a piece of shit who deserved to be hanged or at least kicked out of the country.
And because they've been brainwashed so thoroughly they honestly believe they're the democracy loving freedom spreaders and WE'RE the fascists.

God damn. If ignorance is bliss why are so many of them furious all the time?

 

[ivwshane]

Ya know, you'd think after every single last prediction made about Obama failed to materialize, these idiots would have done what I did: Realized the right-wing media is merely a propaganda psi-op and ignore them.

I was done believing the right-wing had ANY credibility by 2012. Absolutely done. By then I had realized they had become a dangerous cult of extremism.

I know. I was late. But not as late as the rest of these tools.

Really? If you don’t mind can you elaborate on exactly how that happened?

Another forum member went through something similar but it was someone within their circle (as in someone with similar belief, not necessarily a friend or someone try actually knew), who started to question things and that made them start to question things.

So I’m curious as to what prompted your transformation because it seems logical that once someone is willing to question their beliefs, a righty can be easily deprogrammed. But it’s getting to that first hurdle that is the issue.

 

[ivwshane]

The 9/11 analogy is apt, as I think a lot of the modern apocalyptic mindset from American conservatives stems from those attacks.

Many people rallied behind Bush Jr. in the aftermath of 9/11 (whether it was justified or not), but conservatives in particular seemed to treat the attacks as giving the GOP a divine right to rule. Only Republicans could fight terrorism, so Republicans needed to lead the country forever. Hence why some saw Obama as a "secret Muslim" (who also went to an extremist church, if you believed the rhetoric) who would surely let terrorists destroy the US from the inside.

Trump's racist and sexist dogwhistles are different, but he arguably capitalized on 16 years of particularly fear-driven conservative politics.

I don’t know if it began there but that was certainly a turning point. The right went ultra hard into nationalism and anyone not wearing flat pins or thanking the soldiers or flying an American flag were deemed unpatriotic. Honestly it was the first instance of cancel culture that I’m aware of, the Dixie chicks backlash to be specific.

 

[Amused]

Really? If you don’t mind can you elaborate on exactly how that happened?

Another forum member went through something similar but it was someone within their circle (as in someone with similar belief, not necessarily a friend or someone try actually knew), who started to question things and that made them start to question things.

So I’m curious as to what prompted your transformation because it seems logical that once someone is willing to question their beliefs, a righty can be easily deprogrammed. But it’s getting to that first hurdle that is the issue.

No single thing. Just a realization that the right was becoming increasingly unhinged. As they accepted more and more conspiracy theories, I turned away.

Probably my also witnessing anti-vaxxers, flat earthers and conspiracy nutters all gravitate to the right solidified it between 2012 and 1015. By the time Trump ran I was appalled at the very thought of such a clown running, and realized he attracted everything I was against. Anti-intellectualism itself.

Seeing virtually every anti-vaxxer/chemtrailer/flat earther become a Trump supporter over the last 4 years just solidified it completely.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I don’t know if it began there but that was certainly a turning point. The right went ultra hard into nationalism and anyone not wearing flat pins or thanking the soldiers or flying an American flag were deemed unpatriotic. Honestly it was the first instance of cancel culture that I’m aware of, the Dixie chicks backlash to be specific.

I can't tell you how much I hate the blind "support the troops" "thank you for your service" Murica ideology.

Perhaps the worst phrase is "if you don't stand behind our troops you can stand in front of them"

Guess what, the best way to support our troops is to make sure they are in the field only when absolutely needed. Their lives are not numbers on a spreadsheet or cannon fodder to be thrown around at will.

/Rant

 

[MtnMan]

My mom (68) voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, and I had been wondering what it was that promoted those decisions, but I think it's a bit more clear now. My mom is one of those people that idolizes the baby boomer era where having a simple factory job was enough to own a simple home and support your simple family. Along those lines, I can recall many, many times over the years where she has spoken ill of NAFTA, and consequently, has voted for people like Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. (Those two had very anti-NAFTA stances.)

I don't think my mom's heart is in the wrong place, but I don't think she's approaching it properly. The problem is that donning those rose-colored glasses is inherently ignoring how the world has changed since the 50's and 60's... even apart from the ratification of NAFTA. We may not have the plethora of manufacturing jobs, but we do have plenty of service jobs in our economy. These jobs help satisfy the over-stretched American consumer (don't have time to cook dinner, order out!), or simply say "we'll do the job that you don't want to do!" (cook dinner, mow the lawn, etc.). So, in my mind, why not take off the rose-colored glasses, and support current-generation policies that will help foster the same changes such as better minimum wages or better social programs. In other words, you either pay people a livable wage, or support them with social programs that effectively do the same thing while letting people feel good that they "out-earn the Plebes".

So, in short, I think people like my mom are stuck in their own time, and aren't able to see that there are more modern solutions to the problems that they rant about.

Same thought processes that leads people like your mother to actually Trump gave them a tax cut, when in fact it was mostly a withholding reduction with scheduled tax increases in the law, starting this year. Had an acquaintance who just crowed about how Trump put money in his pay check, without the realization only his withholding went down, not his tax liability.

For reference I'm older than your mom.

My career was in computers and networking when they came along. Maintaining mainframes and networks in plants and factories reinforced my views to never have to work in such an environment. The job was lucrative enough that I retired at 55. I then taught networking at the local community college part time.

There was a lot of government sponsored re-training and I had a lot of older students that lost their job due to NAFTA. They were upset, angry, scared, etc., but once they got beyond that and got better jobs with challenges and advancement opportunities I think most would say their life was better, than if they just retired out of the plant.

 

[Moonbeam]

You're overthinking things.

While I don't believe the science has entirely settled yet, there are indications that genetics play a role in empathy. Get the wrong genome and you have trouble caring for anyone besides yourself. If that's the case, that would partly explain why conservatives are frequently selfish and afraid of anything that doesn't resemble their immediate family or community.

Combine that with cultural isolation (many Americans don't even know people from other ethnic groups, let alone leave the US) and a gradual refusal to engage with outside views and it's easy to see why modern conservative politics is gripped by fear: it's easy to sway people who hate change and can't understand why everyone isn't like them.

As I said it was my opinion. The problem I have with yours is that it strikes me to involves a lot more thinking and the reasoning than mine and you give is all kinds of symptoms that themselves need explanation. I think my explanation explains your unexplained symptoms and goes to the root of them. In the first place a completely genetic explanation would not account for the fact that conservatism waxes and wanes is prevalence through time and in relationship to perceived economic and social security. We might say that everybody can under the right circumstances become more conservative. Alcohol will do that as well as stress. So if genetic it might be we all have those genes.

It is also easy to surmise that less enlightened parenting goes hand in hand with the environmental factors you identify as found in typically conservative cultures.

If you look at the link in the thread about the psychiatrist and 27 other ones who warn about Trump narcissism in another thread active here at the moment, you will find a similar diagnosis as the one I offer, absent, that is, that, as I suggested, we all suffer from feelings of worthlessness but are not aware of it. I think most in the field of psychology or any other field are unaware of that. We do not know what we feel and it is the very last thing we ever want to know.

 

[woolfe9998]

Also in the Atlantic and on the same topic, R Senator Ben Sasse, a frequent Trump critic, wrote this editorial:

QAnon Is Destroying the GOP From Within

Until last week, too many in the Republican Party thought they could preach the Constitution and wink at QAnon. They can’t.

www.theatlantic.com

Calling on republicans to repudiate stop the steal, Qanon and all the rest of the batshittery, or they're basically screwed.

More republicans need to be saying this.

 

[Puffnstuff]

More food for thought...

 

[ch33zw1z]

Also in the Atlantic and on the same topic, R Senator Ben Sasse, a frequent Trump critic, wrote this editorial:

QAnon Is Destroying the GOP From Within

Until last week, too many in the Republican Party thought they could preach the Constitution and wink at QAnon. They can’t.

www.theatlantic.com

Calling on republicans to repudiate stop the steal, Qanon and all the rest of the batshittery, or they're basically screwed.

More republicans need to be saying this.

Long op piece. Not bad. Some of the stuff I've actually brought up to conservative peers, and they looked confused. Should be fun goin forward.

 

[ivwshane]

On a semi related note, here is the psychology behind all of this:

How Cognitive Bias Can Explain Post-Truth

Our built-in biases help explain our post-truth era, when “alternative facts” replace actual facts, and feelings have more weight than evidence.

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

Of particular interest was the experiment where one subject is with a group of actors, unbeknownst to the subject, where the actors all say something is incorrect despite the contrary being right in front of their eyes. The subjects, 37% of which, ignored what their eyes saw and concurred with the group. I wonder if that 37% is significant in other meaningful ways.

 

[JD50]

No single thing. Just a realization that the right was becoming increasingly unhinged. As they accepted more and more conspiracy theories, I turned away.

Probably my also witnessing anti-vaxxers, flat earthers and conspiracy nutters all gravitate to the right solidified it between 2012 and 1015. By the time Trump ran I was appalled at the very thought of such a clown running, and realized he attracted everything I was against. Anti-intellectualism itself.

Seeing virtually every anti-vaxxer/chemtrailer/flat earther become a Trump supporter over the last 4 years just solidified it completely.

Exact same thing happened with me, I'm sure my post history proves it! Not sure exactly when though, probably around the time birtherism started really taking hold. I'm not looking back over my post history to figure it out though, I don't want to know what sort of dumb shit I was saying a decade ago.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Exact same thing happened with me, I'm sure my post history proves it! Not sure exactly when though, probably around the time birtherism started really taking hold. I'm not looking back over my post history to figure it out though, I don't want to know what sort of dumb shit I was saying a decade ago.

There's some really dumb shit I've said on this forum, especially when I was in high school (I'm not an OG but I've been here a good while).

 

[thilanliyan]

Also in the Atlantic and on the same topic, R Senator Ben Sasse, a frequent Trump critic, wrote this editorial:

QAnon Is Destroying the GOP From Within

Until last week, too many in the Republican Party thought they could preach the Constitution and wink at QAnon. They can’t.

www.theatlantic.com

Calling on republicans to repudiate stop the steal, Qanon and all the rest of the batshittery, or they're basically screwed.

More republicans need to be saying this.

Only now they realize the nutters were bad for the party? Too bad I guess.

Wouldn't mind if GOP splits into 2 parties and take votes away from eachother.

 

[hal2kilo]

Only now they realize the nutters were bad for the party? Too bad I guess.

Wouldn't mind if GOP splits into 2 parties and take votes away from eachother.

Go Patriot party!