Atlanta schools cheating scandal

[SAWYER]

All these people should lose their jobs or licenses
http://www.ajc.com/news/investigation-into-aps-cheating-1001375.html

 

[Infohawk]

They should be fired, but at the same time we may want to take away the incentive for teachers to correct their students. Some teachers are dealt a bad hand and it's ridiculous to penalize them for not turning duds into geniuses. This no child left behind stuff just seems like it's been a huge disaster.

 

[soundforbjt]

Thank you to No Child Left Behind.

 

[Schadenfroh]

The teachers, administrators and accomplices should never be allowed to work in education again. The administrators / ringleaders should face jail time, with accomplices fined / placed on probation. This is corruption, plane and simple and must be crushed.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

FYI while unacceptable, the real reasons behind this happening start in the child's home.

 

[Thump553]

I highly doubt Atlanta stands alone in this hall of shame. No Child Left Behind had noble purposes behind it but it quickly turned into grading teachers and schools based on standardized test results. What's the answer? I don't really know, but I know this isn't it.

 

[Lithium381]

the program is a failure...... not every kid is the same, they're trying to make it a cookie cutter system

 

[Engineer]

the program is a failure...... not every kid is the same, they're trying to make it a cookie cutter system

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Infohawk]

What's the answer? I don't really know, but I know this isn't it.

Right so the answer should be to repeal no child left behind.

I think a big problem we have towards government is we expect it to have increasing returns. Realistically there's only so much we can achieve with an educational system. We're not going to be able to turn every lost soul in the inner city into a fulfilled scholar. Everyone shits on the US educational system but by in large serious and smart students are given an opportunity to excel.

 

[Uhtrinity]

I couldn't agree more.

What a lot of people don't realize is that No Child Left Behind puts unattainable requirements upon schools. By 2014 100% of students are supposed to be proficient in math and reading. Even in the best schools that won't happen without lowering standards, or faking it like these teachers and administrators did. Not all kids are capable or care enough to take the tests seriously. Our school is one of the better ones in the state, however this last year we scored 80% proficient in language and needed 82%. Next year that increases to something like 86%. On the other hand we are over 90% in math and in the high 80's for reading, but without an improvement we will fall short in the next year or two. Most of the other districts in the area are even farther behind.

I work in a charter environment and administrate our yearly testing. I make it a point to follow policy. If an adult or student deviates from that policy they are quickly reminded of the rules and / or removed from the testing environment. I'm sure not going to lose my job over someone cheating. Luckily we reward our kids for taking the tests seriously in the form of after ISAT parties. That works for most of the students.


Related article that explains the requirement. http://www.isbe.state.il.us/nclb/htmls/highlights.htm

 

[Doppel]

It is not no child left behind that forced educators to cheat and lie and obfuscate public records. Don't you people dare fvcking blame this on that. It may be a terrible program, it may be useless, but these people voluntarily systematically lied on a huge scale over a long period of time. The lot of them should be exempt from acting in a teaching if not a public capacity ever again and some should face prison, for they did break actual laws.

 

[Doppel]

What a lot of people don't realize is that No Child Left Behind puts unattainable requirements upon schools. By 2014 100% of students are supposed to be proficient in math and reading. Even in the best schools that won't happen without lowering standards, or faking it like these teachers and administrators did. Not all kids are capable or care enough to take the tests seriously. Our school is one of the better ones in the state, however this last year we scored 80% proficient in language and needed 82%. Next year that increases to something like 86%. On the other hand we are over 90% in math and in the high 80's for reading, but without an improvement we will fall short in the next year or two. Most of the other districts in the area are even farther behind.

I work in a charter environment and administrate our yearly testing. I make it a point to follow policy. If an adult or student deviates from that policy they are quickly reminded of the rules and / or removed from the testing environment. I'm sure not going to lose my job over someone cheating. Luckily we reward our kids for taking the tests seriously in the form of after ISAT parties. That works for most of the students.


Related article that explains the requirement. http://www.isbe.state.il.us/nclb/htmls/highlights.htm

Who cares, though. All the schools will fall short if it's really this unattainable.

 

[Linflas]

It is not no child left behind that forced educators to cheat and lie and obfuscate public records. Don't you people dare fvcking blame this on that. It may be a terrible program, it may be useless, but these people voluntarily systematically lied on a huge scale over a long period of time. The lot of them should be exempt from acting in a teaching if not a public capacity ever again and some should face prison, for they did break actual laws.

This. Every year I have to prepare computers in the schools I support for SOL testing. Everyone involved in the testing process has to sign a form stating that we will report any suspected or observed instances of cheating. The test software itself is designed to immediately exit if any program launches in the background so part of the prep is to make sure there is nothing on the laptops that can pop up during the test and kick the student out. All paper materials are signed for by the exam proctors and all scratch paper is handed out and collected by the test proctors. From everything I have seen despite most of the teachers having major issues with the whole SOL testing process they deal with it with integrity.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Who cares, though. All the schools will fall short if it's really this unattainable.

But we have an example in this thread of what teachers and administrators will do to meet those unattainable requirements. You are right, it will fix itself by 2014, but expect more scandals before then.

edit: also realize that we are pegging teacher performance to those unattainable numbers, is that fair?

 

[werepossum]

It is not no child left behind that forced educators to cheat and lie and obfuscate public records. Don't you people dare fvcking blame this on that. It may be a terrible program, it may be useless, but these people voluntarily systematically lied on a huge scale over a long period of time. The lot of them should be exempt from acting in a teaching if not a public capacity ever again and some should face prison, for they did break actual laws.

Very well said. These teachers and administrators did this to benefit themselves, not the children who were still left barely literate if that. They were not stealing and cheating for the things the children needed to get a decent education, but rather to ensure that they themselves suffered no adverse effects for the lack of that decent education.

What would be the appropriate penalty for theft of someone's future?

 

[Uhtrinity]

This. Every year I have to prepare computers in the schools I support for SOL testing. Everyone involved in the testing process has to sign a form stating that we will report any suspected or observed instances of cheating. The test software itself is designed to immediately exit if any program launches in the background so part of the prep is to make sure there is nothing on the laptops that can pop up during the test and kick the student out. All paper materials are signed for by the exam proctors and all scratch paper is handed out and collected by the test proctors. From everything I have seen despite most of the teachers having major issues with the whole SOL testing process they deal with it with integrity.

That is also part of my role as technology Coordinator and I follow the policies to a "T". But the other part of the problem is the NCLB requirements I mentioned. No school will meet 100% 100% of the time and that will push some people into breaking policy to protect their jobs. I'm not defending those people, but to put unrealistic expectations on the the schools and then tie their performance to that benchmark is unfair.

 

[sactoking]

At the root, it's a combination of two things:
1. Many administrators/principals would be coerced into cheating by NCLB and similar state-level programs. NCLB lays out impossible school-wide requirements and threatens school closure and/or job loss as penalty for failure to meet the impossible requirements.
2. Many teachers would be coerced into cheating by state-level "pay for performance" schemes. States are increasingly cutting teacher pay and making bonuses and job security contingent upon standardized testing. Let's face it, not all kids are equal. Teachers do get classes of really stupid kids. I've seen it happen. If you're a teacher making $36k and are told "If your kids score X you get $15k and if not you lose your job" that's not a good situation to be in.

 

[Sinsear]

I wonder how good the kids from these schools are at basketball.

 

[Doppel]

But we have an example in this thread of what teachers and administrators will do to meet those unattainable requirements. You are right, it will fix itself by 2014, but expect more scandals before then.

edit: also realize that we are pegging teacher performance to those unattainable numbers, is that fair?

Unattainable, no. Something, yes. I hear a lot of complaining by teachers about being held to objective standards and yet the entire damned establishment seems thoroughly inept when charged with finding something that measures their own performance. How would that sh*t fly in ANY other industry or profession? It wouldn't.

If you're a good teacher wouldn't you want to be able to prove yourself over the kind of scum who did this cheating? Without some way to objectively delineate how do the good teachers get rewarded and the bad taken out?

to put unrealistic expectations on the the schools and then tie their performance to that benchmark is unfair.

Probably so. But I bet you a lot of teachers are not cheating right now, so it's not as if no child left behind is forcing them to do it.

The proper way to do this, the smart way, is if you feel pressure to perform or you get fired/don't get money because of no child, well you can do as best as you can and report everybody who's cheating. With it as rampant as it was here in Atlanta surely some teachers who thought to themselves "I really don't want to have crap test scores but I also don't want to go to prison...hmm, what do I do..." could have thought "Ah hah! Instead of jumping in the muck with these teachers I'll instead document and get them fired after reporting them.".

 

[Darwin333]

Right so the answer should be to repeal no child left behind.

I think a big problem we have towards government is we expect it to have increasing returns. Realistically there's only so much we can achieve with an educational system. We're not going to be able to turn every lost soul in the inner city into a fulfilled scholar. Everyone shits on the US educational system but by in large serious and smart students are given an opportunity to excel.

Didn't we (the US) rank like 38th or something in math last year? I would say we suck pretty bad at educating our children. I sure as hell don't have the solution but I do know that there is a problem.

And for the record, I have never liked the huge emphasis put on standardized testing and again, I don't have the answer for that one either.

 

[Darwin333]

At the root, it's a combination of two things:
1. Many administrators/principals would be coerced into cheating by NCLB and similar state-level programs. NCLB lays out impossible school-wide requirements and threatens school closure and/or job loss as penalty for failure to meet the impossible requirements.
2. Many teachers would be coerced into cheating by state-level "pay for performance" schemes. States are increasingly cutting teacher pay and making bonuses and job security contingent upon standardized testing. Let's face it, not all kids are equal. Teachers do get classes of really stupid kids. I've seen it happen. If you're a teacher making $36k and are told "If your kids score X you get $15k and if not you lose your job" that's not a good situation to be in.

Boy it pains me to say this but I pretty much agree with you. It sure as hell doesn't make it right but when you give a large group of people financial motivation to do something a fair amount of that group will do it, ethical/illegal or not.

 

[Darwin333]

What would be the appropriate penalty for theft of someone's future?

At least tens of millions, if not hundreds..... at least if you are a big bankster.

 

[Slew Foot]

Looks theyll have to be laid off with full pay and pension

 

[Linflas]

That is also part of my role as technology Coordinator and I follow the policies to a "T". But the other part of the problem is the NCLB requirements I mentioned. No school will meet 100% 100% of the time and that will push some people into breaking policy to protect their jobs. I'm not defending those people, but to put unrealistic expectations on the the schools and then tie their performance to that benchmark is unfair.

The inevitable end result of people demanding that the Federal government get involved in education. It is unrealistic to expect them to pump out billions of dollars without some way to measure results. I really feel the Feds role in education should be that of an advisor, available to provide best practices and support to systems that desire it, set goals and guildelines systems may want to consider but realize that public education is the really very much a state and local responsibility.

 

[werepossum]

I am a big fan of standardized testing. I do however have a lot of sympathy with the high school teacher who said "These kids show up without knowing how to read and I'm going to be evaluated on how well I teach them chemistry?" Still, the only way to fix the system is to hold the system (and its components) accountable for its performance. Assuming that cheating can be at least minimized, at some point even Atlanta teachers will wise up and start agitating for the things (material and otherwise) they need to do their jobs rather than for higher pay and more time off.

Incidentally I was meeting with the Superintendent/Director of schools in an adjacent county several years back and he told us how difficult they found it to attract and retain teachers because of Fulton County's supplemental pension system. He said that Fulton County had a separate pension system and they guaranteed that if you taught for thirty years, your personal pension fund would total at least one million dollars - a pretty freakin' sweet retirement. I imagine that puts even more serious pressure on the Atlanta system's ability to hire and retain teachers as well - assuming that it survived.