Atlanta court shootings

[PatboyX]

condor wrote:
Discussion: Would the Atlanta killer have gone over the edge had the judicial system followed the constitution and held him innocent until proven guilty? Was this guy simply driven over the edge or was he already headed there on his own? Was he a born killer or a product of today's system? These questions will come up repeatedly in the news for the foreseeable future.

It has been discussed in the media that this wouldn't have happened had the Atlanta deputy's been using secure holsters. Agreement or not?


to which i made a fantastically intelligent response that i lost when the thread was locked as i composed it.
long and short of it was...
1. what changes can we make to the system that would help the situation?
2. speeding it up would probably not give us good results. however, it is now currently very trendy to notice the number of wrongly accused being put away and put on death row.

 

[Viper GTS]

It has been discussed in the media that this wouldn't have happened had the Atlanta deputy's been using secure holsters. Agreement or not?

They're saying bideo shows her gun was in a lockbox, he took her key & retrieved it. Holster wouldn't have made a bit of difference.

Secure holster or not, it was one 50+ year old woman by herself against a 6'1 200+ lb black guy who's in great shape.

He would have had the gun one way or another.

Viper GTS

 

[ahurtt]

I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

He may not have gone down. The case had been tried the previous week and returned with a locked jury, I think. That indicates to me that there is more to the first case then meets the eye. Desperate situations drive desperate people to desperate measures. I'm leaning to that being the case here - not at all sure. It is too bad for all involved and if anything can come out of all of this that will prevent it again, it deserves dissection. He had spent weeks or months in prison on the rape charge before Friday. The guy had lost his job and probably saw himself as being hopeless. Any way that could have been prevented? I've always thought that our system of denying a convicted felon his or her civil rights for life was too harsh. There should be some way that someone who has gone astray can be made whole again. Our system doesn't support that. Once a criminal, always a criminal means a life of crime. That may not have been the original intent. I believe that a prison should consist of canvas, concertina wire and gardening tools, but I think that once someone has done their time, the slate should be cleared.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

He may not have gone down. The case had been tried the previous week and returned with a locked jury, I think. That indicates to me that there is more to the first case then meets the eye.

Yes, which is why I said, "Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again." Now suppose they had found him not guilty and he had gone free. In light of what he did when things didn't go his way, do you really think this is a guy we'd want walking our streets? He demonstrated that he had it in him to do this kind of thing. I think the fact that it happened when it did was brought on by the circumstances he was in but had he been free to rejoin society, who knows when or where it would have happened? Looking at what he did, I tend to feel that it would have been only a matter of "when and where" and not a matter of "if" he would have done something like this cuz lets face it, life doesn't always go your way. If he had any chance at all of convincing a jury he was not a threat to society, it is all gone now.

 

[Muse]

OK, the topic title and summary refer to a "last thread." Please link it. Thanks.

Topic Title: Atlanta court shootings
Topic Summary: to stick with discussion clogged by last thread <--


Also, if anyone knows of any other threads on the Atlanta court shootings, please link.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

How do you know what he's thinking? I think it's very presumptive of you to put thoughts in his head. You obviously can't get in his head or you wouldn't say these things. You don't understand what motivates a guy like him. Try to be compassionate. That's the only way you'll crack this.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

How do you know what he's thinking? I think it's very presumptive of you to put thoughts in his head. You obviously can't get in his head or you wouldn't say these things. You don't understand what motivates a guy like him. Try to be compassionate. That's the only way you'll crack this.

I never said I knew for fact. I said "I think." I'm just taking a guess as to what could have set him off. . .what might have gone through his mind. And what exactly is there to "crack" about this? Before he went off the deep end maybe there was a case to crack as you put it. But after what he did, any trial he undergoes is now is going to be a mere formality.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

How do you know what he's thinking? I think it's very presumptive of you to put thoughts in his head. You obviously can't get in his head or you wouldn't say these things. You don't understand what motivates a guy like him. Try to be compassionate. That's the only way you'll crack this.

I never said I knew for fact. I said "I think." I'm just taking a guess as to what could have set him off. . .what might have gone through his mind. And what exactly is there to "crack" about this? Before he went off the deep end maybe there was a case to crack as you put it. But after what he did, any trial he undergoes is now is going to be a mere formality.

That's your viewpoint. From your perspective, it's a formality because all you care about is the "outcome." I don't think you have any sense of what's going on. That's my opinion. This was a very dramatic thing. Already, the woman who touched him emotionally and spiritually and led him to stop shooting people, etc. has been offered at least 4 book deals and a movie deal, and that was around 36 hours ago. To you it's a "formality," but to a lot of other people it's quite interesting, obviously.

I just hope that if and when this woman makes some of those deals she decides to give some of that money to the defendant. Something like 50% toward his defense fund would seem appropriate to me. If she doesn't give him some of the money, it's a travesty. I also very fervently hope he doesn't get the death penalty.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

How do you know what he's thinking? I think it's very presumptive of you to put thoughts in his head. You obviously can't get in his head or you wouldn't say these things. You don't understand what motivates a guy like him. Try to be compassionate. That's the only way you'll crack this.

I never said I knew for fact. I said "I think." I'm just taking a guess as to what could have set him off. . .what might have gone through his mind. And what exactly is there to "crack" about this? Before he went off the deep end maybe there was a case to crack as you put it. But after what he did, any trial he undergoes is now is going to be a mere formality.

That's your viewpoint. From your perspective, it's a formality because all you care about is the "outcome." I don't think you have any sense of what's going on. That's my opinion. This was a very dramatic thing. Already, the woman who touched him emotionally and spiritually and led him to stop shooting people, etc. has been offered at least 4 book deals and a movie deal, and that was around 36 hours ago. To you it's a "formality," but to a lot of other people it's quite interesting, obviously.

I just hope that if and when this woman makes some of those deals she decides to give some of that money to the defendant. Something like 50% toward his defense fund would seem appropriate to me. If she doesn't give him some of the money, it's a travesty. I also very fervently hope he doesn't get the death penalty.

WTF??? Why should this women give a cold blooded killer jack sh1t. Just because he didn't kill her warrants her paying for his legal fees? WTF kind of mind would even think like that? I hope this prick dies, there is no excuse for taking someone elses life. If this idiot was any type of man, he would have killed himself.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

How do you know what he's thinking? I think it's very presumptive of you to put thoughts in his head. You obviously can't get in his head or you wouldn't say these things. You don't understand what motivates a guy like him. Try to be compassionate. That's the only way you'll crack this.

I never said I knew for fact. I said "I think." I'm just taking a guess as to what could have set him off. . .what might have gone through his mind. And what exactly is there to "crack" about this? Before he went off the deep end maybe there was a case to crack as you put it. But after what he did, any trial he undergoes is now is going to be a mere formality.

That's your viewpoint. From your perspective, it's a formality because all you care about is the "outcome." I don't think you have any sense of what's going on. That's my opinion. This was a very dramatic thing. Already, the woman who touched him emotionally and spiritually and led him to stop shooting people, etc. has been offered at least 4 book deals and a movie deal, and that was around 36 hours ago. To you it's a "formality," but to a lot of other people it's quite interesting, obviously.

I just hope that if and when this woman makes some of those deals she decides to give some of that money to the defendant. Something like 50% toward his defense fund would seem appropriate to me. If she doesn't give him some of the money, it's a travesty. I also very fervently hope he doesn't get the death penalty.

WTF??? Why should this women give a cold blooded killer jack sh1t. Just because he didn't kill her warrants her paying for his legal fees? WTF kind of mind would even think like that? I hope this prick dies, there is no excuse for taking someone elses life. If this idiot was any type of man, he would have killed himself.

Oh yeah? What kind of bloodthirsty creep excuse for a man do you think you are?

No excuse for taking another person's life? What's all that sh!t going on in Iraq? How many people's lives have been taken by US soldier's all in the name of God and country? All kinds of people think they have the greatest excuse to kill. You want to see this guy die. Not me. If I were on the jury, there'd be no way I'd go capital on it, no way in the world.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

How do you know what he's thinking? I think it's very presumptive of you to put thoughts in his head. You obviously can't get in his head or you wouldn't say these things. You don't understand what motivates a guy like him. Try to be compassionate. That's the only way you'll crack this.

I never said I knew for fact. I said "I think." I'm just taking a guess as to what could have set him off. . .what might have gone through his mind. And what exactly is there to "crack" about this? Before he went off the deep end maybe there was a case to crack as you put it. But after what he did, any trial he undergoes is now is going to be a mere formality.

That's your viewpoint. From your perspective, it's a formality because all you care about is the "outcome." I don't think you have any sense of what's going on. That's my opinion. This was a very dramatic thing. Already, the woman who touched him emotionally and spiritually and led him to stop shooting people, etc. has been offered at least 4 book deals and a movie deal, and that was around 36 hours ago. To you it's a "formality," but to a lot of other people it's quite interesting, obviously.

I just hope that if and when this woman makes some of those deals she decides to give some of that money to the defendant. Something like 50% toward his defense fund would seem appropriate to me. If she doesn't give him some of the money, it's a travesty. I also very fervently hope he doesn't get the death penalty.

WTF??? Why should this women give a cold blooded killer jack sh1t. Just because he didn't kill her warrants her paying for his legal fees? WTF kind of mind would even think like that? I hope this prick dies, there is no excuse for taking someone elses life. If this idiot was any type of man, he would have killed himself.

Oh yeah? What kind of bloodthirsty creep excuse for a man do you think you are?

No excuse for taking another person's life? What's all that sh!t going on in Iraq? How many people's lives have been taken by US soldier's all in the name of God and country? All kinds of people think they have the greatest excuse to kill. You want to see this guy die. Not me. If I were on the jury, there'd be no way I'd go capital on it, no way in the world.

I hope someone kills someone you care about, then I'd like to see what you'd have to say. Maybe you'd give money for there defense fund. You are so fvcked in your thinking you probably would. :thumbsup: to retarded thinking.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think his actions point toward the fact that he was guilty, he knew it, he knew everybody else knew it, and he knew he was going down. So he panicked and went over the edge. Before he took that course, he maybe had a chance at some day seeing freedom again. Now, he's probably wishing he had turned that gun on himself instead.

How do you know what he's thinking? I think it's very presumptive of you to put thoughts in his head. You obviously can't get in his head or you wouldn't say these things. You don't understand what motivates a guy like him. Try to be compassionate. That's the only way you'll crack this.

I never said I knew for fact. I said "I think." I'm just taking a guess as to what could have set him off. . .what might have gone through his mind. And what exactly is there to "crack" about this? Before he went off the deep end maybe there was a case to crack as you put it. But after what he did, any trial he undergoes is now is going to be a mere formality.

That's your viewpoint. From your perspective, it's a formality because all you care about is the "outcome." I don't think you have any sense of what's going on. That's my opinion. This was a very dramatic thing. Already, the woman who touched him emotionally and spiritually and led him to stop shooting people, etc. has been offered at least 4 book deals and a movie deal, and that was around 36 hours ago. To you it's a "formality," but to a lot of other people it's quite interesting, obviously.

I just hope that if and when this woman makes some of those deals she decides to give some of that money to the defendant. Something like 50% toward his defense fund would seem appropriate to me. If she doesn't give him some of the money, it's a travesty. I also very fervently hope he doesn't get the death penalty.

WTF??? Why should this women give a cold blooded killer jack sh1t. Just because he didn't kill her warrants her paying for his legal fees? WTF kind of mind would even think like that? I hope this prick dies, there is no excuse for taking someone elses life. If this idiot was any type of man, he would have killed himself.

Oh yeah? What kind of bloodthirsty creep excuse for a man do you think you are?

No excuse for taking another person's life? What's all that sh!t going on in Iraq? How many people's lives have been taken by US soldier's all in the name of God and country? All kinds of people think they have the greatest excuse to kill. You want to see this guy die. Not me. If I were on the jury, there'd be no way I'd go capital on it, no way in the world.

I hope someone kills someone you care about, then I'd like to see what you'd have to say. Maybe you'd give money for there defense fund. You are so fvcked in your thinking you probably would. :thumbsup: to retarded thinking.

Hey, you can't argue with a sick mind. End of story, buster.

 

[Indybusters]

If you folks can find the time, check out the dated film, Shaka ZULU. It has an erie parallel to this case. Its called remote influencing, and it can be deadly. It may mean something that a devout christian lady, defused a really big F.B.I. shootem-up with a dude with a machine gun, and who was ready to use it. The oldest excuse in the book is the fellow who just missed out, by being a bit late, or was absent. The lawyer seems to fit the bill on this. He knew his client pretty well, and wasn't quite on the scene yet. I'll be waiting to hear of what transpired with the I.N.S./customs agent, who provided all the firepower. The parking area camera showed a pretty calm fellow, just moseying away from the excitement, but more gunplay in a few minutes.