ATI's Radeon X800 series can do Transparency AA too..!

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: lavaheadache
I think It's a good thing. I'm sure that if Ati "unlocked" a hidden quad on a 9800 pro Nobody with those cards would complain, but I'm sure find a way to stick your tongue out at it.

Judging from initial reactions, I havent seen a single ATI card owner pissed about this development so far. Atleast not the biased ones.

And you won't either.

I have to own one to begin with, too bad that joke didnt last long. :laugh:

 

[lavaheadache]

This makes the x800 GTO -2 look very juicy

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: jasonja



That seems like a resonable response to me. Priorities in companies change.. and yes some of this may be response to nVidia.... so how does that make this any less cool that we now have new free features in our 2+ year old graphic cards?

btw, a Mac driver and the PC driver are two completely different beasts, different software teams, different code bases, etc. Just because one has a feature doesn't mean it's "free" do add it to another. Software does cost money and it is expensive. Do you think Software Engineers are cheap?



So thanks to nVidia for pushing ATI to make better products! No doubt the competition is good for both companies.

Well apparently software engineers at ATi must get paid a lot more than the ones at nVidia because they're too cheap to prioritize their Linux drivers as well. Users be damned, ATi's bottom line is all that counts. So tell me again why I should thank ATi and not nVidia for not being so cheap with it's customers?

Oh now they should give their Linux drivers priority??? 99% of the world runs Windows... all of their OEM customers ship with Windows or MacOS. Most companies don't even offer Linux drivers, but ATI does. I think the Linux drivers have the priority they should have... Linux blows.. deal with it.

Wait so they don't care about their customers... bottom line is all that counts??? yet for some reason every month they release new drivers with new performance and added features for FREE??? Man I wish every company I bought stuff from didn't care about me like that!

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: jasonja



That seems like a resonable response to me. Priorities in companies change.. and yes some of this may be response to nVidia.... so how does that make this any less cool that we now have new free features in our 2+ year old graphic cards?

btw, a Mac driver and the PC driver are two completely different beasts, different software teams, different code bases, etc. Just because one has a feature doesn't mean it's "free" do add it to another. Software does cost money and it is expensive. Do you think Software Engineers are cheap?



So thanks to nVidia for pushing ATI to make better products! No doubt the competition is good for both companies.

Well apparently software engineers at ATi must get paid a lot more than the ones at nVidia because they're too cheap to prioritize their Linux drivers as well. Users be damned, ATi's bottom line is all that counts. So tell me again why I should thank ATi and not nVidia for not being so cheap with it's customers?

Oh now they should give their Linux drivers priority??? 99% of the world runs Windows... all of their OEM customers ship with Windows or MacOS. Most companies don't even offer Linux drivers, but ATI does. I think the Linux drivers have the priority they should have... Linux blows.. deal with it.

Wait so they don't care about their customers... bottom line is all that counts??? yet for some reason every month they release new drivers with new performance and added features for FREE??? Man I wish every company I bought stuff from didn't care about me like that!

Wow way to contradict yourself. First you say linux blows and to hell with customers that want drivers for it (which nVidia gives solid support) and then you praise ATi for giving you useless features and catalyst releases each month that fix one thing and break another. Nice logic you have there. I bet you were one of the guys in the "screw SSAA it's useless" crowd and now you're on ATi's sack for adding it due to external pressures (not because they care about their customers needs).

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: jasonja
jesus... Rollo... never miss a beat to say something bad. "new features in the driver?? Damn they suck.. they could have done that years ago"

I don't know Jasonja, I don't know how to spin that as a positive.

If I understand 5150s post above correctly, I could have had TAA with my X800XTPE and ATI withheld it from me.

Is that "good"?

Oh right and 5150 is now the ATI spokesperson...

Do you know that ATI is NOT going to release this on your X800? They haven't announced this as a feature at all... for any card yet. Maybe this feature isn't on yet because it still has bugs... maybe it doesn't work 100% correctly on all older hardware... maybe this was never the intended behavior of this registry key anyways. You don't know any of this... you nVidiots just assume the worst immediately.

Are you certain that nVidia can't do the same thing on their 6800? Maybe they are holding back too?

ATI has constantly released new features and optimizations to the drivers that cover the entire R300/400 series... Suddenly you assume this feature won't make the list. Funny how you assume ATI will keep doing all the bad sh1t (paper launches, etc) but won't keep up their habits of releasing new Catalyst features.

That's an awwwwwwful lot of maybe's there jj. And I thought you and CrazyDingo were lobbying for the ATI spokesperson position. I hear they just laid of the last one and may not be able to afford to fill the opening. :laugh:

I use "Maybe" because unlike Rollo and 5150 I don't pretend to know the full story behind why those registry keys exist.

 

[ponyo]

Nvidia likes to play magical driver tricks too. Remember those magic 20% performance increase drivers Nvidia used to put out in days of Geforce 3 & 4 whenever ATI released new cards. I guess you guys were mad at Nvidia too for withholding performance until needed.

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: jasonja



That seems like a resonable response to me. Priorities in companies change.. and yes some of this may be response to nVidia.... so how does that make this any less cool that we now have new free features in our 2+ year old graphic cards?

btw, a Mac driver and the PC driver are two completely different beasts, different software teams, different code bases, etc. Just because one has a feature doesn't mean it's "free" do add it to another. Software does cost money and it is expensive. Do you think Software Engineers are cheap?



So thanks to nVidia for pushing ATI to make better products! No doubt the competition is good for both companies.

Well apparently software engineers at ATi must get paid a lot more than the ones at nVidia because they're too cheap to prioritize their Linux drivers as well. Users be damned, ATi's bottom line is all that counts. So tell me again why I should thank ATi and not nVidia for not being so cheap with it's customers?

Oh now they should give their Linux drivers priority??? 99% of the world runs Windows... all of their OEM customers ship with Windows or MacOS. Most companies don't even offer Linux drivers, but ATI does. I think the Linux drivers have the priority they should have... Linux blows.. deal with it.

Wait so they don't care about their customers... bottom line is all that counts??? yet for some reason every month they release new drivers with new performance and added features for FREE??? Man I wish every company I bought stuff from didn't care about me like that!

Wow way to contradict yourself. First you say linux blows and to hell with customers that want drivers for it (which nVidia gives solid support) and then you praise ATi for giving you useless features and catalyst releases each month that fix one thing and break another. Nice logic you have there. I bet you were one of the guys in the "screw SSAA it's useless" crowd and now you're on ATi's sack for adding it due to external pressures (not because they care about their customers needs).

Linux blows.. yes... it sucks... it's free and still almost nobody uses it. I write software for a living, I don't care about Linux and it certainly should not be a priority for any company who's main customers don't use it. I don't think fixing bugs and adding stuff like TAA is useless FOR WINDOWS. They don't seem to be breaking anything on my machine with new drivers (Too bad you can't say the same about your whiz bang GeForce huh? maybe they should have worked more on standby instead of Linux drivers)... everything works great for me... and I keep getting new features for FREE!

I don't understand you people... if you don't like ATI ... buy nVidia... I don't like nVidia so I buy ATI.... but I don't crap on EVERY friggin thread about nVidia. I don't badmouth them when they release new improvements in their driver. Good for them... good for their customers!! It's obvious you're an nVidia fan... so WTF do you care about ATI's drivers for? Move along!

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Nvidia likes to play magical driver tricks too. Remember those magic 20% performance increase drivers Nvidia used to put out in days of Geforce 3 & 4 whenever ATI released new cards. I guess you guys were mad at Nvidia too for withholding performance until needed.

Shush !

Selective criticism or short-term memory. :laugh:

 

[5150Joker]

Jason when I take a cursory glance at Catalyst release notes, all I see are fixes for something they broke the previous month, not new features. The only new features you got were the useless shader crap they implemented and VPU recover (which was made for their OEM customers). Yeah screw Linux, screw 3d glasses support and screw windows users that have pleaded for SSAA - oops I guess they'll throw that in (via registry hack) now that nVidia is turning up the heat. :roll:

Edit: oh nice edit there linking to my post about 81.26 drivers. Those are leaked drivers and nVidia has gone as far as stating they are in an alpha state. Nice try.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Naustica
Nvidia likes to play magical driver tricks too. Remember those magic 20% performance increase drivers Nvidia used to put out in days of Geforce 3 & 4 whenever ATI released new cards. I guess you guys were mad at Nvidia too for withholding performance until needed.

Shush !

Selective criticism or short-term memory. :laugh:

Performance increases aren't the same as denying users a much requested feature simply because the company doesn't think it's worth expending resources for customer satisfaction. BTW both ATi and nVidia continue to offer performance improvements with driver releases, that 20% increase for the GF3 wasn't a much asked for feature.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Naustica
Nvidia likes to play magical driver tricks too. Remember those magic 20% performance increase drivers Nvidia used to put out in days of Geforce 3 & 4 whenever ATI released new cards. I guess you guys were mad at Nvidia too for withholding performance until needed.

Shush !

Selective criticism or short-term memory. :laugh:

Performance increases aren't the same as denying users a much requested feature simply because the company doesn't think it's worth expending resources for customer satisfaction. BTW both ATi and nVidia continue to offer performance improvements with driver releases, that 20% increase for the GF3 wasn't a much asked for feature.

Wasn't a much asked for feature? What the heck are you smoking and yes I own a 7800GTX but your logic is out there. Name one person who owns a video card who doesn't ask for 20% increase in performance every moment of every day. Name one person. Come on, get real.

Hey Nvidia, I have decided that I don't want a 20% driver performance increase right now. No thanks. Thank-you for offering though. Who are you trying to kidd with that logic?
Nvidia is again saying there will be large boost in performance with a new driver set right about the time the R520 comes out. That sure is amazing. Nvidia must really care about its customers or maybe the have held back features and perforamance gains to minimize the ATI launch. I peronally don't care which but I had to point out the flaw in your 20% increase in performance wasn't an asked for feature. That is hilarious. That is like saying getting a 20% raise isn't an asked for bonus for being an employee of a company. Every single employee wants a 20% raise but they are not going to ask every moment for one because that would be an unrealistic expectation just like getting huge driver speed improvements right about the time your competitor released a competing project is suspicious to the tin hats among us. Oh well, I think both companies will be fine and I owe allegiance to no inaminate object.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Rollo
WTH? Way to dodge the question "CAT Maker". I suppose getting something better free is good no matter how you come about it, but ATI obviously manipulated their clients. Maybe this is part of the "more features but slower" we're supposed to shell out for.

It just rubs me the wrong way to know that they had the ability to add it in over a year ago for the PC but chose not to because apparently their customers weren't important enough to implement the feature. But now that nVidia put pressure on them and beat them in the AA department, customers be damned, their asses were on the line on all fronts so it became cost effective to hide it in their latest driver so they could introduce it as a new selling point for their R520 line of cards.

there are a LOT of features built into the r300 and later cores - and probably every other GPU core - that were never activated . . . or activated much later. Big Deal.

basically there are 2 gaming companies . . . each tries to offer what it thinks its customers will buy. As one feature gets popular in one company, there is incentive for the other company to activate their similar previously "hidden" feature [if it is there] . . . and that activation costs much time and money.

for example, multi core possibilities are built into r300 but ATI ignored SLI until nVidia had a runaway success with it . . . it still took nearly a year to deliver X-fire. Big Big Bucks.

Besides this Transparancy AA might be too much of a performance hit for x800 for ATI to bother with it up-till-now. You never know.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Naustica
Nvidia likes to play magical driver tricks too. Remember those magic 20% performance increase drivers Nvidia used to put out in days of Geforce 3 & 4 whenever ATI released new cards. I guess you guys were mad at Nvidia too for withholding performance until needed.

Shush !

Selective criticism or short-term memory. :laugh:

Performance increases aren't the same as denying users a much requested feature simply because the company doesn't think it's worth expending resources for customer satisfaction. BTW both ATi and nVidia continue to offer performance improvements with driver releases, that 20% increase for the GF3 wasn't a much asked for feature.

Wasn't a much asked for feature? What the heck are you smoking and yes I own a 7800GTX but your logic is out there. Name one person who owns a video card who doesn't ask for 20% increase in performance every moment of every day. Name one person. Come on, get real.

Hey Nvidia, I have decided that I don't want a 20% driver performance increase right now. No thanks. Thank-you for offering though. Who are you trying to kidd with that logic?
Nvidia is again saying there will be large boost in performance with a new driver set right about the time the R520 comes out. That sure is amazing. Nvidia must really care about its customers or maybe the have held back features and perforamance gains to minimize the ATI launch. I peronally don't care which but I had to point out the flaw in your 20% increase in performance wasn't an asked for feature. That is hilarious. That is like saying getting a 20% raise isn't an asked for bonus for being an employee of a company. Every single employee wants a 20% raise but they are not going to ask every moment for one because that would be an unrealistic expectation just like getting huge driver speed improvements right about the time your competitor released a competing project is suspicious to the tin hats among us. Oh well, I think both companies will be fine and I owe allegiance to no inaminate object.

Performance increases are not features and that is my point. Seems you guys are trying to twist the two into meaning the same thing when they are completely different. A request for a feature (e.g. SSAA) was pleaded for by the ATi community for months and denied. In contrast, the nVidia community at the time GF3 was around wasn't begging for a much needed 20% increase (and being told it wasn't feasible) but of course when they did get it, they were happy about it. Do you understand now or should I break it down into even more simpler terms for you?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
[ A request for a feature (e.g. SSAA) was pleaded for by the ATi community for months and denied. In contrast, the nVidia community at the time GF3 was around wasn't begging for a much needed 20% increase but of course when they did get it, they were happy about it. Do you understand now or should I break it down into even more simpler terms for you?

Perhaps the request was denied because the x800 isn't beefy enough to run with it enabled.

it may NEED r520 :Q

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
[ A request for a feature (e.g. SSAA) was pleaded for by the ATi community for months and denied. In contrast, the nVidia community at the time GF3 was around wasn't begging for a much needed 20% increase but of course when they did get it, they were happy about it. Do you understand now or should I break it down into even more simpler terms for you?

Perhaps the request was denied because the x800 isn't beefy enough to run with it enabled.

it may NEED r520 :Q

But they had it for the Mac. And sure it would be more than enough for older games which a lot of the players requested it for. I haven't seen any performance figures in newer games for this method yet though, guess I'll look around.

 

[BenSkywalker]

And yes, if ATi has been hiding this feature I'll be quite annoyed.

I told you the feature was there a long time ago BFG- back when you were still running a R9700Pro but you came up with some apologist excuse as to how it couldn't be(insinuated I was full of it and being illogical IIRC).

All you have to do is look at the functionality of their chips- they have been able to handle a TAA style implementation since the R300 and have always been capable of doing SSAA- they simply refused.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

And yes, if ATi has been hiding this feature I'll be quite annoyed.

I told you the feature was there a long time ago BFG- back when you were still running a R9700Pro but you came up with some apologist excuse as to how it couldn't be(insinuated I was full of it and being illogical IIRC).

All you have to do is look at the functionality of their chips- they have been able to handle a TAA style implementation since the R300 and have always been capable of doing SSAA- they simply refused.

How would performance be if i enable it with my 9800xt? . . . it sure seems to slow the GF7 series down a lot.


edit:

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: apoppin
Perhaps the request was denied because the x800 isn't beefy enough to run with it enabled.

it may NEED r520 :Q

But they had it for the Mac. And sure it would be more than enough for older games which a lot of the players requested it for. I haven't seen any performance figures in newer games for this method yet though, guess I'll look around.

the Mac and PC are such different platforms . . . i believe some things are also exclusive to the PC . . . don't know really . . . i'd also like to see performance figures.

 

[Greenman]

Just so I'm clear. Some of you think ATI disabled a feture that they could use to sell video cards right now, so that it might help them sell video cards in the future?
Thats not the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but it's in the top ten.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Naustica
Nvidia likes to play magical driver tricks too. Remember those magic 20% performance increase drivers Nvidia used to put out in days of Geforce 3 & 4 whenever ATI released new cards. I guess you guys were mad at Nvidia too for withholding performance until needed.

Shush !

Selective criticism or short-term memory. :laugh:

Driver optimizations take time.

Does anybody know for sure that this actually super sampling and not just MSAA (nVidia does offer a MSAA-TAA and a SSAA-TAA mode).

 

[BFG10K]

I told you the feature was there a long time ago BFG- back when you were still running a R9700Pro but you came up with some apologist excuse as to how it couldn't be(insinuated I was full of it and being illogical IIRC).

No, what I said was ATi's reason for not including it was that gamma correction didn't work with it. This could be a legitimate reason, especially if you're mixing MSAA with SSAA.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i'd also like to see performance figures.

Some performance figures: http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost.php?p=1333939134&postcount=37
and here http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=958636

Surprise surprise, it's perfectly playable using SSAA.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Performance increases are not features and that is my point. Seems you guys are trying to twist the two into meaning the same thing when they are completely different. A request for a feature (e.g. SSAA) was pleaded for by the ATi community for months and denied. In contrast, the nVidia community at the time GF3 was around wasn't begging for a much needed 20% increase (and being told it wasn't feasible) but of course when they did get it, they were happy about it. Do you understand now or should I break it down into even more simpler terms for you?

Features or Performance, denying either should be bad. I dont know why some people are concentrating on features only. Like I said earlier: Selective criticism or short-term memory.

 

[Munky]

I read about this feature when Techreport did a preview of the r300 like 3 years ago, and I always thought that was just some marketing gimmick, or that they ran into issues when they tried to implement it. Too bad they delayed it so much, it would have definitely given them an advantage over the gf6 series a year ago. But I'm gonna try it anyways, better late then never.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Greenman
Just so I'm clear. Some of you think ATI disabled a feture that they could use to sell video cards right now, so that it might help them sell video cards in the future?
Thats not the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but it's in the top ten.

too... much... logic...


must... spread... fud... instead...

 

[jasonja]

This is a new feature in the drivers.... previous Catalyst drivers don't have it. Go check for yourself.