ATI renaming some Radeon mobility series GPUs

[konakona]

Orton has deemed this good, you must all trust in Him

Seriously, where is the huge outrage about anti competitive practices, lawsuits and all the other moronic BS the Church of ATi crew was spewing when nV did the same thing?

Reality check- general consumers don't know what they are buying anyway, as long as you don't make a 580v that is significantly worse then a 540v it really doesn't matter at all. It didn't matter when nV did it, it doesn't now.

So for those of us that here that have pointed out ATi is equally as evil as NV are not the crew of the said Church of ATi, correct? Just making sure you are not ignoring the fact that there is a good number of fair minded people.

 

[NoQuarter]

So for those of us that here that have pointed out ATi is equally as evil as NV are not the crew of the said Church of ATi, correct? Just making sure you are not ignoring the fact that there is a good number of fair minded people.

He's got an imaginary battle to fight leave him to it.

 

[at80eighty]

yes. ATI is equally as evil as Nvidia.

hooboy, you better not be bogarting that stash just for yourself mang

 

[SlowSpyder]

To be fair, the names of the new products don't even correspond to anything in their traditional naming scheme. 560v? Who's going to mistake that for something else?

Nevertheless, Its fucking stupid and will only end up duping all the people that don't do their homework and deserve to be duped, like its always been.

Yea, when Nvidia changed the name of the 9800GTX+ to the GTX250 I didn't think it was a big deal. The new name helped it fall in line with the GTX2xx parts, it brought some clarification.

When Nvidia changed the 8800GTS to the 9800GTX I thought it was pretty deceitful as obviously it's meant to make consumers think it is a newer series part.

Changing a 4670 to a 560v doesn't make me think the new name would make anyone think it's a faster part, so in that regard I don't believe that it's deceitful. But, when Nvidia went to the GTS250 name it made sense, it clarified things a bit. AMD's new naming scheme seems more confusing than anything... how does a 560v compare to a 5750? I don't get why they would do this.

 

[YBS1]

Reality check- general consumers don't know what they are buying anyway, as long as you don't make a 580v that is significantly worse then a 540v it really doesn't matter at all. It didn't matter when nV did it, it doesn't now.

General consumers? Hell Ben, I don't even know what I'm buying when it comes to mobile GPU's, and I'm on anandtech everyday. I was looking around at laptops a few weeks ago and saw an Asus with an HD5870, I figured it would be hella fast. Come to find out it's pretty much just a 5770. I also saw one with a nVidia GTX360, still haven't figured out WTF that is. Is it faster than the GTX280M, slower? You'd sure think it would be faster, but I have a sneaking suspicion it's not.

 

[Skurge]

I cant get to the article. Can someone copy and past what it says here?

 

[YBS1]

AMD scheint eine neue Serie für seine mobilen Grafikkarten aufzulegen, darauf deutet zumindest die US-Seite des Herstellers hin. Neu ist dabei aber eigentlich nur der Name, die Hardware ist alt. Die ATI Mobility Radeon HD 500v-Serie vertraut, soweit bisher ersichtlich, auf die 55 nm-GPUs der Radeon HD 4000-Serie.

Drei Karten sind auf AMDs Webseite derzeit zu finden:

* ATI Mobility Radeon HD 560v Series Graphics
* ATI Mobility Radeon HD 540v Series Graphics
* ATI Mobility Radeon HD 530v Graphics


Die ATI Mobility Radeon HD 560v setzt demnach auf den RV730 mit 320 Streamprozessoren und entspricht somit grundsätzlich einer Mobility Radeon HD 4670. Die ATI Mobility Radeon HD 540v setzt auf den RV710 mit 80 Streamprozessoren. Diese GPU kam schon bei den Mobility Radeon HD 4500 und HD 4300 zum Einsatz. Letzterer dürfte aber eher der ATI Mobility Radeon HD 530v entsprechen.

Eigentlich kamen die älteren GPUs schon mit neuem Namen zum Einsatz, nämlich als Mobility Radeon HD 5165 und HD 5145, nun scheint man aber konsequent eine Nebenlinie für die älteren GPUs zu eröffnen.
Bei einem heute aufgetauchten Dell-Notebook, das auf AMDs kommender Danube-Plattform basiert, findet sich zudem eine Mobility Radeon HD 550v, die so auf AMDs Seite bisher nicht zu finden ist.

Wie wir schon in einer älteren News zum Rebranding erwähnt hatten, drängen häufig die Notebook-Hersteller und OEM-Partner auf eine Umbenennung der Chips, um auch ältere Exemplare noch attraktiv zu halten und so leichter verkaufen zu können. Dabei wird natürlich immer mit dem Wissen und Nicht-Wissen der Kunden gespielt, was den Rebranding-Aktionen, die bisher vor allem von Nvidia zum Äußersten getrieben wurden, immer einen faden Beigeschmack verleiht. Auffallend ist hier, dass sich die Karten nicht in das normale Namensschema der bisherigen Radeon HD-Karten einordnen lassen, denn dieses ist eigentlich vierstellig. Insofern setzen sich die GPUs zumindest von den übrigen Modellen ab.

================================================

AMD seems to be a new series for its mobile graphics cards hang up, it suggests at least towards the U.S. side of the manufacturer. New feature is however just the name that the hardware is old. The ATI Mobility Radeon HD Series 500v familiar, so far as can be seen on the 55 nm GPUs of the Radeon HD 4000 series.

Three cards are available on AMD's website now:

* ATI Mobility Radeon HD 560V Series Graphics
* ATI Mobility Radeon HD 540V Series Graphics
* ATI Mobility Radeon HD Graphics 530V


The ATI Mobility Radeon HD 560V is therefore based on the RV730 with 320 stream processors and corresponds, in principle, a Mobility Radeon HD 4670th The ATI Mobility Radeon HD 540V is based on the RV710 with 80 stream processors. This GPU was already at the Mobility Radeon HD 4500 and HD 4300 are used. The latter is expected but rather in accordance with the ATI Mobility Radeon HD 530V.

Actually, the older GPUs already came with a new name to use, namely as a Mobility Radeon HD 5165 and HD 5145, but now seems to be consistently a branch for older GPUs open.
In a now emerged Dell notebook based on AMD's upcoming Danube platform, there is also a Mobility Radeon HD 550V, which is on AMD's page not found so far.

As we mentioned in an earlier news about the rebranding, often pushing the notebook manufacturer and OEM partners to be able to rename one of the chips in order to keep older copies still attractive and easier to sell. This is of course always played with the knowledge and ignorance of the customers, what the re-branding campaigns that have been driven primarily by Nvidia to extremes, always gives a sour aftertaste. It is striking here is that the cards do not in the normal naming scheme of the existing lane Radeon HD cards, because this is actually four digits. In this respect the GPUs share at least from the other models

 

[SlowSpyder]

I cant get to the article. Can someone copy and past what it says here?

Semiaccurate article: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/10/ati-picks-nvidias-bad-habits/

According to Charlie it looks like the clock speeds may be 'tweaked'? I don't see any information of what the new clocks will be though.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Orton has deemed this good, you must all trust in Him

Seriously, where is the huge outrage about anti competitive practices, lawsuits and all the other moronic BS the Church of ATi crew was spewing when nV did the same thing?

Reality check- general consumers don't know what they are buying anyway, as long as you don't make a 580v that is significantly worse then a 540v it really doesn't matter at all. It didn't matter when nV did it, it doesn't now.

Just wait till someone comes here crying they bought a 540v to replace their 45xx mobility.

It still is crap - no need to make old models look new ones if they aren't. They work just as well with their old names.

 

[evolucion8]

Just wait till someone comes here crying they bought a 540v to replace their 45xx mobility.

It still is crap - no need to make old models look new ones if they aren't. They work just as well with their old names.

Don't talk to him, he may drag you to his imaginary battle against the almighty Orton!!!

Reality check: BSOD

 

[BenSkywalker]

Don't talk to him, he may drag you to his imaginary battle against the almighty Orton!!!

There is only so many times you can hear 'evil' used to describe a simple business decission before it gives the clear impression that the peopel using it view corporations as divine influences.

 

[badb0y]

There is only so many times you can hear 'evil' used to describe a simple business decission before it gives the clear impression that the peopel using it view corporations as divine influences.

It's a stupid move by ATi to rename shit, just like it was for nVidia. It seems like it's definately the OEM pushing both these companies to do this.

 

[GaiaHunter]

There is only so many times you can hear 'evil' used to describe a simple business decission before it gives the clear impression that the peopel using it view corporations as divine influences.

Just because it is a simple business decision it doesn't mean it is one that we consumers shouldn't oppose.

It is curious you talk about divine influence because you give the clear impression that you regard NVIDIA as an infallible entity.

It is even more curious when we read what you write about what can be "described as a simple business decision" by Intel (or should I say the company the moderators don't allow to be criticized or whatever?) regarding NVIDIA interests.

 

[Lonyo]

There is only so many times you can hear 'evil' used to describe a simple business decission before it gives the clear impression that the peopel using it view corporations as divine influences.

So if someone thinks China's one child policy is evil, that's divine influence? If putting up cameras everywhere as the UK does is considered evil, the UK government is a divine entity?
If running over someone when you are driving drunk is evil, there is a divine element?

There's only so many ways you can use 'evil' used to describe things and think "what does this have to do with divine anything?"

 

[BenSkywalker]

Just because it is a simple business decision it doesn't mean it is one that we consumers shouldn't oppose.

Like renaming of parts? I guess if you feel an obligation to oppose something that doesn't effect you that is fine, it is an interesting choice however.

It is curious you talk about divine influence because you give the clear impression that you regard NVIDIA as an infallible entity.

Really? What faults have I stated about ATi? That is the interesting thing about this forum. Unless you gush about ATi and flame nV- and you must do both- you are considered a fan of nV. How about a bit of reality- they both make good parts. Only shockingly stupid fanboys see it any other way. When it comes to considering their business decissions, rarely will you see either one of them doing something the other has never done or comparable.

It is even more curious when we read what you write about what can be "described as a simple business decision" by Intel (or should I say the company the moderators don't allow to be criticized or whatever?) regarding NVIDIA interests.

There is nothing odd there. Intel pulls nV's chipset license, nV pulls Intel's graphics license. There is nothing complex. I made fun of Intel because the design of Larrabee was stupid. A lot of people thought I was a fool for saying so, then Intel cancelled a part they spent billions on(though it may resurface at a later point). There is nothing good or evil about it, it is a business choice.

So if someone thinks China's one child policy is evil

Human rights issues are simple business decissions? Forced abortions, abandoning and in some cases killing unwanted born children is a business decission? Please explain.

 

[Lonyo]

Human rights issues are simple business decissions? Forced abortions, abandoning and in some cases killing unwanted born children is a business decission? Please explain.

OK then, lets go to "evil" business decisions, since general evil decisions aren't comparable to business ones when it comes to pointing out that there is nothing to link calling something evil to something being divine.

Now, Google is a business entity (hopefully we can agree on that).
As a business entity, it makes decisions. We could term these business decisions.
The unofficial slogan for said business entity is "Don't be evil". Now, what evil things could a business do? Well clearly Google thinks that businesses can indeed do evil things, otherwise they wouldn't feel a need to have "Don't be evil" as their slogan.
Now, does that mean that Google is divine? Does that mean all the businesses who don't subscribe to the Google POV are divine (since they likely do some evil somewhere)?

http://www.google.com/corporate/tenthings.html
Here's a link to a Google web page, and the 6th point on the page is as follows:

6. You can make money without doing evil.

Google is a business. The revenue we generate is derived from offering search technology to companies and from the sale of advertising displayed on our site and on other sites across the web. Hundreds of thousands of advertisers worldwide use AdWords to promote their products; hundreds of thousands of publishers take advantage of our AdSense program to deliver ads relevant to their site content. To ensure that we're ultimately serving all our users (whether they are advertisers or not), we have a set of guiding principles for our advertising programs and practices:

* We don't allow ads to be displayed on our results pages unless they are relevant where they are shown. And we firmly believe that ads can provide useful information if, and only if, they are relevant to what you wish to find – so it's possible that certain searches won't lead to any ads at all.
* We believe that advertising can be effective without being flashy. We don't accept pop-up advertising, which interferes with your ability to see the content you've requested. We've found that text ads that are relevant to the person reading them draw much higher clickthrough rates than ads appearing randomly. Any advertiser, whether small or large, can take advantage of this highly targeted medium.
* Advertising on Google is always clearly identified as a "Sponsored Link," so it does not compromise the integrity of our search results. We never manipulate rankings to put our partners higher in our search results and no one can buy better PageRank. Our users trust our objectivity and no short-term gain could ever justify breaching that trust.

Now, they made a business decision to set these rules, and they deem that decision one to avoid evil. Thus the Google concept of evil would be something which contravenes these things (one could logically assume).
Does that mean that companies which contravene such rules (or similar as might be seen in a different market) are divine?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Does that mean that companies which contravene such rules (or similar as might be seen in a different market) are divine?

They are under the impression they are in that realm. Companies can do evil, look at what some of the chemical companies in WWII Germany willingly took part in. Those are examples of truly evil companies.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Like renaming of parts? I guess if you feel an obligation to oppose something that doesn't effect you that is fine, it is an interesting choice however.

I think it is a more interesting choice to only care about stuff that concerns you.

But, I'm a consumer. I care about consumers rights.

Really? What faults have I stated about ATi? That is the interesting thing about this forum. Unless you gush about ATi and flame nV- and you must do both- you are considered a fan of nV. How about a bit of reality- they both make good parts. Only shockingly stupid fanboys see it any other way. When it comes to considering their business decissions, rarely will you see either one of them doing something the other has never done or comparable.

And where did I say you said so?

Again.

It is curious you talk about divine influence because you give the clear impression that you regard NVIDIA as an infallible entity.

Is there any ATI in there?

It isn't my fault that you need to compare anything that NVIDIA does with what AMD/ATI or Intel do.

Look like the kids that do something and to defend their actions say "but x did too!".

An interesting thing about these forums (a video card and graphics forums) is that if you prefer the ATI products because the offer similar performance and don't care about HPC/GPGPU and physX you are a rabid anti-NVIDIA and a Zoner.

There is nothing odd there. Intel pulls nV's chipset license, nV pulls Intel's graphics license. There is nothing complex. I made fun of Intel because the design of Larrabee was stupid. A lot of people thought I was a fool for saying so, then Intel cancelled a part they spent billions on(though it may resurface at a later point). There is nothing good or evil about it, it is a business choice.

And some people in here think that some NVIDIA decisions are stupid.

And the past can't really vouch for decisions being made and that will affect the future.

 

[BenSkywalker]

But, I'm a consumer. I care about consumers rights.

We have a P&N forum where such topics are discussed.

It is curious you talk about divine influence because you give the clear impression that you regard NVIDIA as an infallible entity.

If I felt they were infallible I would do what the ATi faithful do- insist that the competitors parts are poorly designed. I would lament ATi for not pushing fabrication processes and bitch about them giving up their lead in tesselation etc. I would criticize them for focusing too much on power consumption and not enough on performance and features. I don't believe any of that. They made a good part, they just took a different direction then nV did. The ATi faithful knock nV constantly for every design choice that doesn't completely fall in line with what ATi is doing at that moment.

And some people in here think that some NVIDIA decisions are stupid.

Logical questioning of certain choices with well reasoned reasoning is something quite different then the overwhelming majority of what we get here.

 

[thilanliyan]

I guess if you feel an obligation to oppose something that doesn't effect you that is fine, it is an interesting choice however.

I hope you're only talking about video cards. There are many things in the world that people oppose that don't directly affect them.

 

[konakona]

For instance, I am hard pressed to believe what China does to enforce its one child policy possibly has anything to do with you at all on a personal level. I take it you also find people opposing that policy interesting? You are very interesting indeed.

So what we have here is some companies accused of adopting a business strategy considered by many to be a dishonest attempt to dupe the uninformed. Sure they must be wise enough to do this all within the legal boundaries, but in essence, it is about as honest and morally sound as a malicious salesman on a sales floor trying to push inferior products to clueless people.

It is debatable as to why they are doing this, but obviously people here feel it is as described above. In case you meant we don't have enough grounds for such claim, then you should just disengage from this topic. People make predictions and assumptions from what little information they get all the time, no harm in doing that really. Otherwise, if you meant business entities should be able to get away with this kind of crap without getting yelled at, you better come out and admit being a corporate apologist (I think I am pretty safe with making this slanted accusation, I am just giving you back what I have received from you).

 

[BenSkywalker]

There are many things in the world that people oppose that don't directly affect them.

Those things are discussed mainly in a forum like P&N. On a video card forum? Not so much

 

[Madcatatlas]

Did i just see Benskywalker say "where are all the cryes of foul play when Ati does the same thing nVidia did" after a page with NO positive or defensive posts in Atis favor?

Are you blind man?

you really dont need to answer that, but that is just incredible.


This is outright pathetic of AMD, as mentioned the notebook market is already a minefield.
This IS probably a buisiness (spelling?) desicion, perhaps from oem pressure, and it most likely will net them more sales. If you were abit on the cynical side, you`d actually nod AMDs way and think they understand how to do buisiness, but being a forum user, with abit wider view of things, i dont like it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

We have a P&N forum where such topics are discussed.

We also have moderators.

If I felt they were infallible I would do what the ATi faithful do- insist that the competitors parts are poorly designed. I would lament ATi for not pushing fabrication processes and bitch about them giving up their lead in tesselation etc. I would criticize them for focusing too much on power consumption and not enough on performance and features. I don't believe any of that. They made a good part, they just took a different direction then nV did. The ATi faithful knock nV constantly for every design choice that doesn't completely fall in line with what ATi is doing at that moment.

There you go again!

So basically you can't criticize NVIDIA because ATi also has lower points? And vice-versa?

Someone says "Fermi is too hot!". Then you go jumping "ATi is non-existent in the HPC market!".

So?

Fermi is still hot!

Fermi would still be hot even if the 5870 were as hot!

Someone says it is BS that they blocked physX if an ATi card is in the system. You jump saying that a card 8 years ago didn't have all the capabilities if it wasn't the main card (even if the main card was another ATi).

Does one event make the other one less crappy for the consumers?

 

[BenSkywalker]

Did i just see Benskywalker say "where are all the cryes of foul play when Ati does the same thing nVidia did" after a page with NO positive or defensive posts in Atis favor?

It's only a very small portion of the series that's being rebranded, and it happens to be on the low end where most customers are shopping for the lowest prices. Most of those same customers aren't going to be gaming, so what's it really matter?

Well the only reason they'd do that is if this either brought them some advance (like tricking people in thinking their old mobility chips are new.. see Nvidia and their last rebrands) or that they want to clarify their lineup.

I wonder if these moves are for the dells, hps etc of the world.

This is outright pathetic of AMD

No, it really isn't- not unless they make a lower numbered part faster in the same series. They are cleaning up their product line in terms of naming convention. It is no big deal at all.

We also have moderators.

When you bring emotional stances on issues into a technology forum you are surprised when it is laughed at? That is the point. We are talking about binary operations here. Not societal impacts of modern corporate structures and how it relates to a consumer driven populace. I have no problem with either discussion, just using one to try and make points on the other is flat out ignorant.

So basically you can't criticize NVIDIA because ATi also has lower points? And vice-versa?

I can't criticize either one because of their current design choices because they both are doing what they aimed to do extremely well. The Subaru Brat is a much better pickup truck then a Corvette. Pretty stupid comparison isn't it? That is what the majority of drivel I read looks like here.