ATI refresh rate problem unnoticed!

[rogue1979]

I guess it's not a big deal for most people, because it only affects CRT users hence not many people have noticed.

Using any of the later Catalyst drivers it's a crap shoot depending on what CRT monitor you are using. I have tested on 6 different CRT's and the refresh rate is stuck at 60Hz on 4 of the 6 using both a 2600XT and a 3850. Atitraytools or CCC force refresh rate control has no effect.

Nvidia drivers don't suffer from this problem and it seems unlikely that AMD/ATI is going to bother to address the problem.

 

[apoppin]

cool

but is this posted anywhere else? On AMD's forums, for example?

it is something for me to check out in my benchmarking
--i will connect my CRT and try it

back tonight

speaking of issues, i am having a devil of a time with Nvidia's CP and 'centered timings' .. they do not stick and it appears to have an issue with Vantage.

 

[CP5670]

What drivers does this occur on? I didn't have any trouble with refresh rates on XP when I had an ATI card, but I think the last driver I used was 7.11.

Also, are you on Vista 64? Several people have complained about refresh rate problems on that, stemming fom its stupid signed driver limitation.

 

[taltamir]

DID you inform ATI about that?
I once informed nvidia that if you don't have a monitor plugged in (at all, it does not happen if a monitor is plugged but off) while turning on the PC then windows will not detect any monitor when you plug one in later... a few days later a new driver beta addressed that.
It could just be that they don't know.

 

[Zillatech]

I'm not sure about running Vista x64 off an LCD (which I'm doing on current system) but in the past on WinXP and a CRT, I used to have many problems with refresh rate locked @ 60Hz. I tried many 3rd party apps and using the video drivers (mostly Nvidia) and nothing worked 100% until someone pointed me to a "Global" Windows fix.

1. Run "Dxdiag", then choose the "More Help" tab.

2. Choose the "Override ..." button at the bottom right

3. Set the desired refresh rate. (Default is 60Hz)


This option always worked for me under DirectX Games. I use a Mitsubishi 22" CRT and can run 100Hz from 1600x1200 downward so I set my value to 100Hz. Just make sure you don't set the value too high for your CRT or you'll get a blank screen when running D3D apps. This method should work for Nvidia, ATI or any Video Card since its an Global OS setting.

I haven't plugged in my Vista x64 box yet to this CRT but will be doing so shortly and then I'll be able to see if there is such an "Override" function under Vista while running on a CRT.

Maybe someone can test this theory and post back.

 

[CP5670]

That DXDiag setting works in most games but it won't do anything for OpenGL programs.

The most reliable approach is to load a custom monitor driver (inf file) into Windows with all the low refresh modes filtered out. Windows then thinks your monitor is incapable of 60hz and will never output it. However, Vista 64 blocks unsigned drivers so this technique no longer works, and the same applies to most refresh rate forcing programs. Apparently there are third party hacks to remove this driver limitation altogether, but I don't know how well they work.

 

[rogue1979]

I discovered this using WinXP Pro SP2. In all fairness to ATI, I have not notified them of the problem.

Tried Cat 8.1 through 8.8, same refresh rate problem.

 

[BFG10K]

I have perfect refresh rates with ATi on XP, even custom ones like 1720x1320 @ 79 Hz.

To get it working you have to edit the modes in the registry/INF manually and then add them using ReForce.

 

[dug777]

I've had no problems with any of the ATI drivers I've used with my 3450, Vista HP 64-bit, and my 21" Samsung CRT.

 

[evolucion8]

I also had the same issue, but in Vista when playing DX10 games only. Lost Planet in DX10 would run at weird refresh rates like 61Hz, 73Hz, 86Hz, Gears of War also in DX10 runs at 60Hz too, I tried RefreshForce utility and wouldn't work, is horrible to play at 60Hz for us CRT users. :disgust:

 

[rogue1979]

Update:

Lately I have been using a 9600GSO that I got for a steal.

I had a brand new X1950Pro that had been unused, RMA replacement for a Sapphire X1900GT that had been sitting around for almost a year.

Fired it up and loaded the NGO Cat 7.2 and tested it on four different CRT monitors.
All worked normally. Then uninstalled the driver and used Driver Cleaner Pro, tried the Xtreme-G 8.9 and instantly the refresh rate problem reared it's ugly head. Tried several versions of ATI and Xtreme-G drivers based on the later Catalyst drivers (8.6 through 8.9)
and all of them displayed the same refresh rate problem on the same four CRT monitors.

It's weird, I actually have one Hitachi CM715 (CRT) that doesn't have the refresh rate problem with any newer ATI drivers.

Anyhow going back to the Cat 8.5, the X1950 Pro worked again, the refresh rate problem disappearing.

Gonna reinstate my original HD 3850 again and give it a go with the Xtreme-G 8.5. There are many performance improvements noticed by the Cat 8.5 especially in COD4 and Grid,
so I don't really want to settle for older then Cat 8.5. If it still displays the refresh rate problem I will just retire it and go back with the 9600GSO that runs great.

In another thread I was contemplating upgrading my son's 9600GSO to either a 9800GTX or HD 4850. But since he is a big CRT fan also, not sure if the HD 4850 is gonna have the same problems, it doesn't look very promising.

 

[rogue1979]

Playing around with the X1950Pro and it's actually not bad. I usually game at 1152 x 864 16AF and 4XAA with either my 9600GSO or HD 3850.

Playing GRAW2, COD4, GRID, and a few others I usually run anywhere from 60fps and up.

Leaving all details the same, and just turning the AA to 2X, the X1950 Pro can actually play some popular current titles decently at 1152 x 864 16AF. Dips into the low 30's sometimes, but most of the time running 45-60fps. If I don't obsess on the little Fraps number running in the corner, all of the above mentioned games run very smooth.

Not saying the RV570 can play Crysis on a larger LCD, but just surprised it can still game decently. Overclocked to 625/1500 with fan speeds bios modded, artic silver 5 on the stock fan and it maxes out at 67C. That's much cooler than the X1900GT it replaced. Since it isn't worth any money these days I'll just keep it as a back-up.

I didn't compare them back to back, but it performs more or less like a 2600XT @ 820/1680 or a 8600GT at 860/1700 that I used to have but gave them both away.