ATI Radeon 9800PRO 256MB

[Lenny23]

Hi,
I have purchased a genuine ATI Radeon P9800 Pro with 256 MB RAM and installed it in the system. Now the issue is this: The system is a Dell 4600 and the power supply that it has is at 250W. I see on the box that it recommends at least 300W. As of now everything is working just fine, but what would be the problem, if any, to run it at 250W on the system that I have now?

Please let me know what you think on this, because I see absolutely no problems when running it now, and the heatsink on the card itself isnt even too hot and its been on for several hours already...

Thanks,
Lenny

PS- I attached the cable that came with it to the Hard Drive and then to the Power Supply, so in essence it has two sources of power- the slot and the cable...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Lenny23
Hi,
I have purchased a genuine ATI Radeon P9800 Pro with 256 MB RAM and installed it in the system. Now the issue is this: The system is a Dell 4600 and the power supply that it has is at 250W. I see on the box that it recommends at least 300W. As of now everything is working just fine, but what would be the problem, if any, to run it at 250W on the system that I have now?

Please let me know what you think on this, because I see absolutely no problems when running it now, and the heatsink on the card itself isnt even too hot and its been on for several hours already...

Thanks,
Lenny

PS- I attached the cable that came with it to the Hard Drive and then to the Power Supply, so in essence it has two sources of power- the slot and the cable...

Should be ok . . .. most Dell PSes are a bit underrated and should be able to handle it fine.

BTW, your 256/256MB pro IS a 9800Xt with a simple BIOS flash.


Radeon 9800 Pro To Radeon 9800XT Mod Guide

 

[Adn4n]

It doesn't have to be. Not all ATI Radeon 9800 Pros have the r360 core, mine didn't.

 

[nOObBooB]

Hrmm well you wont have a problem, but you start adding a second hard drive and a sound card of example, you will run into problems. I had a dell optiplex 260 with two harddrives a 9800 pro, audigy sound card, i had problems booting up teh machines sometimes esp when the pc has been off for a really long time. It was saying making sure your 9800pro is connected to the psu or we can not find hard drives with teh os on them. It was a problem because the psu couldnt power up all the components sometimes. Because i had those problems so often, i just took out he cpu and built a new system.

 

[Lenny23]

So you're saying that it would be wise of me to leave out the new HD that I bought (200GB)? Lets say that I would upgrade it to an XT, would there be a significant increase in performance that it would be worth the extra power supply and heatsink etc...?

Thanks

EDIT: Btw as a side note- the way the box it made the card's main chips are on the bottom when the base it upright. That means that the heatsink and the chips are all giving off heat which is absorbed directly in the card and the other chips... Do you think that this is a problem? (I know its stupid of them to make it this way, but is there a real difference whether the top is on top or on the bottom...?)

 

[Lenny23]

Originally posted by: Adn4n
It doesn't have to be. Not all ATI Radeon 9800 Pros have the r360 core, mine didn't.

I just read somewhere that the R360 ones still say R350 in the tests etc, until you flash it to an XT, at which point it becomes what it really is. But apparently your card has to match the picture on that website (from the link)...

 

[LocutusX]

the only way to be sure is to remove the heatsink and read what it says on the chip

don't flash anything until you do that.

if that makes you uncomfortable, don't flash. just o/c to 412/365 instead. it's not like anything other than 3Dmark03 benefits from the so-called "shader tweaks" anyways - my 3dmark05 and Doom3 scores are identical before/after 9800XT bios flash.

 

[Lenny23]

What about the HD thing- should I not add the new HD? Or are the Dell Power Supplies so good that they should do just fine with it...?

Also, what would happen if I were to have too little power- would I damage anything or would things just not run as they could/should...? (Because as of now I just used Command and Conquer and things were just fine- I'm wondering if it was used for things like this on a constant basis if it might ruin the card or the computer... due to too little power...?)

 

[df96817]

Originally posted by: Lenny23
What about the HD thing- should I not add the new HD? Or are the Dell Power Supplies so good that they should do just fine with it...?

Also, what would happen if I were to have too little power- would I damage anything or would things just not run as they could/should...? (Because as of now I just used Command and Conquer and things were just fine- I'm wondering if it was used for things like this on a constant basis if it might ruin the card or the computer... due to too little power...?)

Dell says that the power supply in the Dimension 4600 is rated at 250 W average and 345 W peak. It can even run a 6800 GT with no problem so you should be fine.

 

[nOObBooB]

I am just saying that i had problems wiht my psu with two harddrives and 9800xt , audigy sound card, you might not. I am jsut telling my experience that i had.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Adn4n
It doesn't have to be. Not all ATI Radeon 9800 Pros have the r360 core, mine didn't.

95% of the 256/256MB Radeon Pros do (unlike the 128MB versions). And if you READ the article you will learn EVERYTHING you need to know - about how to tell which core, how to flash and flash back if something errors, and that you will get approx 10% more peformance just by doing the flash PLUS you unlock Overdrive and your thermal diode. :thumbsup:

Generally most modern 250w Dell PSes will handle a 9800pro (judging by the responses to this much asked question . . . if you want to be sure, "search" the forums). 😛
:roll:

 

[CKTurbo128]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Adn4n
It doesn't have to be. Not all ATI Radeon 9800 Pros have the r360 core, mine didn't.

95% of the 256/256MB Radeon Pros do (unlike the 128MB versions). And if you READ the article you will learn EVERYTHING you need to know - about how to tell which core, how to flash and flash back if something errors, and that you will get approx 10% more peformance just by doing the flash PLUS you unlock Overdrive and your thermal diode. :thumbsup:

Generally most modern 250w Dell PSes will handle a 9800pro (judging by the responses to this much asked question . . . if you want to be sure, "search" the forums). 😛
:roll:

I wouldn't say 95% of the 9800 Pro 256MBs, unless you're specifically talking about only the newer 9800 Pro models with the XT core & PCB. Don't forget there was also the older 9800 Pro 256MB, 16 chip DDRII models (with R350 core) that was released last year, well before the introduction of the 9800 XT.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CKTurbo128

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Adn4n
It doesn't have to be. Not all ATI Radeon 9800 Pros have the r360 core, mine didn't.

95% of the 256/256MB Radeon Pros do (unlike the 128MB versions). And if you READ the article you will learn EVERYTHING you need to know - about how to tell which core, how to flash and flash back if something errors, and that you will get approx 10% more peformance just by doing the flash PLUS you unlock Overdrive and your thermal diode. :thumbsup:

Generally most modern 250w Dell PSes will handle a 9800pro (judging by the responses to this much asked question . . . if you want to be sure, "search" the forums). 😛
:roll:

I wouldn't say 95% of the 9800 Pro 256MBs, unless you're specifically talking about only the newer 9800 Pro models with the XT core & PCB. Don't forget there was also the older 9800 Pro 256MB, 16 chip DDRII models (with R350 core) that was released last year, well before the introduction of the 9800 XT.

i would and that is my opinion. Very few of the 256bit/256MB Radeon Pros were made on the r350 core with Samsung RAM - MOST (remember, the 256MB version was released later, along with the XT - there were also some early XTs with r350 core) were r360 with Hynix 2.2ns memory. 😉

 

[Lenny23]

Well you cant be normal without being crazy because if you're not crazy at all, then you must be really kookoo!

EDIT: My real question is this: if I really use this card a lot, whats the worst thing that can happen- just slow downs and lack of performance due to lack of proper power/heatsinks... or something worse- to the card and the motherboard...etc.? Also, is it worth the effort to get a new power supply and cooler just to get it to being an XT?

 

[LocutusX]

Originally posted by: CKTurbo128

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Adn4n
It doesn't have to be. Not all ATI Radeon 9800 Pros have the r360 core, mine didn't.

95% of the 256/256MB Radeon Pros do (unlike the 128MB versions). And if you READ the article you will learn EVERYTHING you need to know - about how to tell which core, how to flash and flash back if something errors, and that you will get approx 10% more peformance just by doing the flash PLUS you unlock Overdrive and your thermal diode. :thumbsup:

Generally most modern 250w Dell PSes will handle a 9800pro (judging by the responses to this much asked question . . . if you want to be sure, "search" the forums). 😛
:roll:

I wouldn't say 95% of the 9800 Pro 256MBs, unless you're specifically talking about only the newer 9800 Pro models with the XT core & PCB. Don't forget there was also the older 9800 Pro 256MB, 16 chip DDRII models (with R350 core) that was released last year, well before the introduction of the 9800 XT.

yes but unless you are buying used, off ebay, etc. you are unlikely to get one of those. stick to buying stuff from a reputable vendor, you should only get "newly manufactured" stuff ... i.e. an R360-cored board. apoppin is more or less correct.

flashing to XT might be nice with the 256mb card, but not really a big deal with the 128mb card. i did some extensive benchmarking before and after comparing the same speed and the "tweaked shaders" unlocked by the XT BIOS don't amount to squat.


apoppin:

there were also some early XTs with r350 core

not possible. R360 was created primarily for the 9800XT, and featured the tweaked shaders (which don't have much real world impact, but they're still there). can't have an XT with the R350 core.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: LocutusX

Originally posted by: CKTurbo128

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Adn4n
It doesn't have to be. Not all ATI Radeon 9800 Pros have the r360 core, mine didn't.

95% of the 256/256MB Radeon Pros do (unlike the 128MB versions). And if you READ the article you will learn EVERYTHING you need to know - about how to tell which core, how to flash and flash back if something errors, and that you will get approx 10% more peformance just by doing the flash PLUS you unlock Overdrive and your thermal diode. :thumbsup:

Generally most modern 250w Dell PSes will handle a 9800pro (judging by the responses to this much asked question . . . if you want to be sure, "search" the forums). 😛
:roll:

I wouldn't say 95% of the 9800 Pro 256MBs, unless you're specifically talking about only the newer 9800 Pro models with the XT core & PCB. Don't forget there was also the older 9800 Pro 256MB, 16 chip DDRII models (with R350 core) that was released last year, well before the introduction of the 9800 XT.

yes but unless you are buying used, off ebay, etc. you are unlikely to get one of those. stick to buying stuff from a reputable vendor, you should only get "newly manufactured" stuff ... i.e. an R360-cored board. apoppin is more or less correct.

flashing to XT might be nice with the 256mb card, but not really a big deal with the 128mb card. i did some extensive benchmarking before and after comparing the same speed and the "tweaked shaders" unlocked by the XT BIOS don't amount to squat.


apoppin:

there were also some early XTs with r350 core

not possible. R360 was created primarily for the 9800XT, and featured the tweaked shaders (which don't have much real world impact, but they're still there). can't have an XT with the R350 core.

There were SOME early 9800xts with the Samsung memory and evidently the r350 core.
Take a look at the different XT BIOSes.

Take a little time and LEARN about the 256MB Pro.😛
:roll:

 

[Lenny23]

Do you know where I could get that heatsink for the XT- I dont want to get a big cooler that takes up a second slot...

Also, I am not clear on this- if I use this card all day and night, will it get 'fried' and damage the computer as well? (being that the power is only at 250w officially)

And lastly, would it be worth it to flash it to an XT?

Thanks y'all

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Lenny23
Do you know where I could get that heatsink for the XT- I dont want to get a big cooler that takes up a second slot...

Also, I am not clear on this- if I use this card all day and night, will it get 'fried' and damage the computer as well? (being that the power is only at 250w officially)

And lastly, would it be worth it to flash it to an XT?

Thanks y'all

The best cooler is the ArcticCooling Silencer Rev 3 . . . . it DOES take up a second slot - but that is to exhaust the hot GPU air out of your case (the 9800p/xt runs hot) . . . . perhaps someone else can recommend a one slot solution.

it is UNlikely that your PS/computer will be damaged by running a bit underpowered (remember your Dell PS is rated for a MINIMUM 250w - 345w peak) . . . . MONITOR it using MB monitor or your included MB utility ("Hardware Doctor"). If you see the voltages rising and falling, or some are low, you need a better PS. IF you start to notice INSTABILITY, you may be drawing too much power for your rated supply.

it IS worth it to flash a 256/256MB (r360) Radeon Pro to XT for the eXtra 10% performance increase, the Overdrive and temperature monitoring. . . . if you know what you are doing - for SURE!. STUDY the guide . . . . then read it again . . . . if you are STILL unsure, then DON'T flash it. 😛
:roll:

 

[Lenny23]

Thanks a lot. I'll try to find out where to monitor the voltage for this system, because it is not self apparent...

 

[LocutusX]

Originally posted by: apoppin
apoppin:

there were also some early XTs with r350 core

not possible. R360 was created primarily for the 9800XT, and featured the tweaked shaders (which don't have much real world impact, but they're still there). can't have an XT with the R350 core.

There were SOME early 9800xts with the Samsung memory and evidently the r350 core.
Take a look at the different XT BIOSes.

Take a little time and LEARN about the 256MB Pro.😛
:roll:[/quote]


Logically, that doesn't prove anything. All of the enhancements found in the 9800XT - save for increased clock speed - can't be done with the R350. Seeing some BIOS posted on a page that says something else doesn't mean anything at all.

Rojak's been wrong before, and they still have some misleading articles posted - i.e. the one on swapfile "optimization" which is probably still there.

As well, your attitude is unwarranted - where do I provide a misrepresentation of facts regarding the 256MB Pro?

:roll:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: LocutusX

Originally posted by: apoppin
apoppin:

there were also some early XTs with r350 core

not possible. R360 was created primarily for the 9800XT, and featured the tweaked shaders (which don't have much real world impact, but they're still there). can't have an XT with the R350 core.

There were SOME early 9800xts with the Samsung memory and evidently the r350 core.
Take a look at the different XT BIOSes.

Take a little time and LEARN about the 256MB Pro.😛
:roll:

Logically, that doesn't prove anything. All of the enhancements found in the 9800XT - save for increased clock speed - can't be done with the R350. Seeing some BIOS posted on a page that says something else doesn't mean anything at all.

Rojak's been wrong before, and they still have some misleading articles posted - i.e. the one on swapfile "optimization" which is probably still there.

As well, your attitude is unwarranted - where do I provide a misrepresentation of facts regarding the 256MB Pro?

:roll:
[/quote]

Attitude?! Perhaps you're too sensitive. 😛

What did i say that accused you of misrepresenting anything? Perhaps you took exception to my link titled, "Take a little time and LEARN about the 256MB pro" . . . . just 'cause i had your username in "quotes" doesn't mean i am not posting ALSO for the OP (and everyone else reading the post). 😉

I did a little research. First of all, there were some early 9800xts with the DDRII Samsung memory . . . . might have been engineering samples . . . . i just can't remember if they also had the r360 or r350 core and i can't find ANY proof . . . . so i am willing to completely let that go . . . . and won't bring it up again unless there are further facts.

Now something that IS interesting is the differences between r350 and r360 . . .. basically the R360 is just an improved production yield from R350 chips that is going to work at higher frequencies . . . ati improved the heat dissapation so they could clock it higher . . . . unless you call additional stencil shadowing optimizations for HyperZ III+ a "major" difference.
:roll:

 

[LocutusX]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: LocutusX

Originally posted by: apoppin
apoppin:

there were also some early XTs with r350 core

not possible. R360 was created primarily for the 9800XT, and featured the tweaked shaders (which don't have much real world impact, but they're still there). can't have an XT with the R350 core.

There were SOME early 9800xts with the Samsung memory and evidently the r350 core.
Take a look at the different XT BIOSes.

Take a little time and LEARN about the 256MB Pro.😛
:roll:

Logically, that doesn't prove anything. All of the enhancements found in the 9800XT - save for increased clock speed - can't be done with the R350. Seeing some BIOS posted on a page that says something else doesn't mean anything at all.

Rojak's been wrong before, and they still have some misleading articles posted - i.e. the one on swapfile "optimization" which is probably still there.

As well, your attitude is unwarranted - where do I provide a misrepresentation of facts regarding the 256MB Pro?

:roll:

Attitude?! Perhaps you're too sensitive. 😛

What did i say that accused you of misrepresenting anything? Perhaps you took exception to my link titled, "Take a little time and LEARN about the 256MB pro" . . . . just 'cause i had your username in "quotes" doesn't mean i am not posting ALSO for the OP (and everyone else reading the post). 😉

I did a little research. First of all, there were some early 9800xts with the DDRII Samsung memory . . . . might have been engineering samples . . . . i just can't remember if they also had the r360 or r350 core and i can't find ANY proof . . . . so i am willing to completely let that go . . . . and won't bring it up again unless there are further facts.

Now something that IS interesting is the differences between r350 and r360 . . .. basically the R360 is just an improved production yield from R350 chips that is going to work at higher frequencies . . . ati improved the heat dissapation so they could clock it higher . . . . unless you call additional stencil shadowing optimizations for HyperZ III+ a "major" difference.
:roll:[/quote]

Don't worry. I was probably being a bit too sensitive. I'm allergic to your constant usage of :roll:

I think whatever architectural differences between R350 and R360 are minute at best anyways. The main thing is that the R360 was kinda like the CG-stepping for A64 - clocks much higher than the original, R350.

Does it really matter? They're all obsolete anyways. We should all be buying nVidia cards now. 😉

:roll:

 

[Lenny23]

...and peace upon the land.

PS- I'm not even going to ask why you say not to buy ATI anymore, being that I just bought one...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Lenny23
...and peace upon the land.

PS- I'm not even going to ask why you say not to buy ATI anymore, being that I just bought one...

it's a little sarcasm . . .. you have a nice mid-range card that can handle all of today's games at 10x7 with some AA/AF . . . . be satisfied and/or flash or O/C it as "needed".

:thumbsup: