I've removed a few posts that were straying into off-topic side discussions again.
- AmberClad (Video Mod)
- AmberClad (Video Mod)
[/quote]
There's no need for me to retract any claims, you don't get to come late to the discussion and pick and choose quotes out-of-context as you see fit, sorry. I very clearly stated numerous times the temperature thresholds I was referring to:
- Still, its obvious even their 8800GT results are much better than the 80-90C idle and 90-100C load temps of the 4850s and 4870s at launch, which couldn't even be adjusted until a few driver updates later.
This of course is nothing like the 100C problem on launch GTX 280s as that problem was never passed off as normal as the cards did not function properly if they exhibited such defects. That's very different than every launch 4800 that did not have fans that ramped up under load, leadiing to excessively hot temps that could easily eclipse 90C under load.
Just what in the world are you trying to prove here, Chizow? Both the G92 8800GT and the 4850 originally came with small, single slot coolers and dinky fans. Both cards ran hot. Neither card could adjust the fan speed upon launch. And what does any of this have to do with the 4890? You know, the subject of this thread.
Again, the 8800GT's fan was not only better at stock, it could also be adjusted from Day 1 in either nTune or RivaTuner. The 8800GT ran hot sure, compared to a dual slot G80, but it still came nowhere close to the well-documented temps the 4800s saw at launch. Making such comparisons is a joke, really.
As for what this has to do with 4890? My point was a 4890 based on the same 55nm process as RV770 was very much in doubt due to heat and power thresholds, at which point the 8800GT was brought into the discussion as if it would somehow disprove such claims even though it shared none of the same characteristics.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...cs-card-review-22.html
G92 8800GT
Idle - 48
Load - 81
HD4850
Idle - 50
Load - 88
That looks pretty darn close. Hardly a "joke" comparison.
Well, now you see that the 8800GT and 4850 weren't all that dissimilar in their initial thermal characteristics using their launch HSFs. So we can now get back to discussing the 4890?
Links to several reviews just from this page of the thread and what I provided on the previous page (are you suggesting ALL the reviews are wrong? And these are reviews from launch day so no fan fixes as you pointed out.) show that the cards don't even get to 90C at load. If people's cards were getting to over 100C at load, either it was faulty or they had VERY inadequate airflow in their cases. If they were "well-documented" as you put it provide links to several review sites backing up your claims.
MegaWorks
Diamond Member
- Jan 26, 2004
- 3,819
- 1
- 0
I`m using two 9800GT and they idle at 75c and load 88c and no they`re not nVidia stock heatsinks. My 4850s were much more cooler than that, they idle around 40c and 66c load with different stock coolers.
My 9800GT
My 4850
Does it make any sense to compare a G92 to a RV770?
Isn't obvious what his trying to prove.
My 9800GT
My 4850
Does it make any sense to compare a G92 to a RV770?
Isn't obvious what his trying to prove.
4850 90C Load
4850 87C Load
Skin Burning Hot
etc. etc.
There's no doubt the 8800GT was hotter than usual for Nvidia parts, but clearly nothing like the heat problems seen with the 4800s, a negative aspect emphasized in just about every launch review.
So lets get back to discussing that 4890, shall we?
Well HardOCP actually show the 8800GT being 7c hotter under load.Originally posted by: chizow
There's no doubt the 8800GT was hotter than usual for Nvidia parts, but clearly nothing like the heat problems seen with the 4800s, a negative aspect emphasized in just about every launch review.
So lets get back to discussing that 4890, shall we?
http://www.hardocp.com/article...l?art=MTUzNyw4LCwxNjA=
Also if your considering buying a 4850 new. it's going to be hard to find a reference cooler anymore.
55 Celsius @ idle
63 & 65 Celsius @ idle
62 Celsius @ idle
All the above were the findings from established review sites for the 4800 series at launch. (except the Anandtech one, it was a few days before the official launch date)
Sufficient case cooling helps temps from both vendors. Climbing GPU temps from lack of efficient case cooling doesn't mean it's the card's fault.
What I believe everyone is getting at is that the 90C idle temp you discussed was and is not a normal operating temperature for a reference 4800 series GPU. However, your comment implied it was. If someone is getting that range of idle temperature, it is either due to a faulty card or the user's PC environment.
If you disagree - if you consider the testimonies of users to be completely valid representations of the reference 4800 series - then it appears Cookie Monster is correct in your selective hearing.
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
I'm not reading this whole thread, it's another one of those stupid NV vs. ATI threads.
But has anyone ever stopped to consider a possible 11th (or more) shader core and/or texture unit may have been in the RV770 die this whole time? The way AMD was pitching their development of the 4800-series (read AnandTech interview), it sounded to me like they wanted to make their chip yield as efficient as possible. It wouldn't surprise me if they've been collecting and binning chips with the extra core active... "just in case".
But has anyone ever stopped to consider a possible 11th (or more) shader core and/or texture unit may have been in the RV770 die this whole time? The way AMD was pitching their development of the 4800-series (read AnandTech interview), it sounded to me like they wanted to make their chip yield as efficient as possible. It wouldn't surprise me if they've been collecting and binning chips with the extra core active... "just in case".
Maybe you should read the thread.
Short answer, yes. Some people said they don't beleive it's likely due to the power requirements on the 55nm process to reach the clock speeds. Some think it'll be fine as the process has matured over time. And everything in between. Rofl its obvious some people want to keep discussing the 8800GT vs. 4850/4870 rather than the 4890, so for the last time:
4850/4870 Before and After Temps
These are actual results from users around launch, not open air test benches that clearly show temps ranging from 80-100C were quite the norm. I've linked a similar thread for the 8800GT where users were not getting anything close to those temps even overclocked. Threads and results like this were a dime a dozen at launch, heat was clearly a bigger issue with 4800 than with the 8800GT or any other recent product launch to-date.
4850/4870 Before and After Temps
These are actual results from users around launch, not open air test benches that clearly show temps ranging from 80-100C were quite the norm. I've linked a similar thread for the 8800GT where users were not getting anything close to those temps even overclocked. Threads and results like this were a dime a dozen at launch, heat was clearly a bigger issue with 4800 than with the 8800GT or any other recent product launch to-date.
Puffnstuff
Lifer
- Mar 9, 2005
- 16,187
- 4,871
- 136
Well I hope that ati pulls a rabbit out of their hat on this one. If they do then we all win regardless of which gpu we prefer. It will drive down the prices on existing cards and some of us will buy at that time.
Earlier you had claimed that the temperature "debacle" was widely backed by review sites,
but since then you haven't provided a link to a trustworthy review site to support this. Now it seems you're saying that review sites' conclusions aren't as valuable as end users because they might conduct said tests in open-air rigs.
It's just hazy on where you consider the more accurate information to originate from, review sites or end users - especially when you credit one source at one point in time then discredit it at another.
Firing Squad
Legit Reviews
THG
Tech Report
Trustworthy enough for you? You can see the language in the articles, even the ones linked earlier do back my claim that temperatures were a major issue at launch with stock fans and profiles on the 4800s.
We can link to review sites all day, but its clear they show the 4850 and 4870 run hotter than their Nvidia counterparts and but still will not accurately reflect actual temps as the results were taken in open air test benches, which is why I instead linked to actual user results.
That doesn't support your claim that the 4800 series cards normally idle at 90C. Most users there were reporting high 70's to low 80's.
Yes, and they don't support your claim that 4800 series cards normally idle at 90C. That's why BFG10K suggested you retract that statement as it's an exaggeration or abnormal.
Besides, you linked the wrong page on the Firing Squad article. The page you linked was Brandon explaining that users have reported 70-degree Celsius range at idle, further disproving your past statement.
What you didn't link was the page that contained Firing Squad's results here, which shows an idle temp of 64C on the reference 4850.
The other sites also did not support your claim.
Legit Reviews: 78C @ idle
THG: 81C @ idle
And Tech Report didn't even post an idle temp, but showed a load temp of 90C.
I can also see their facts, which don't line up with your previous claim:
From there, you have not offered anything conclusive indicating that's a true statement. In fact, the latest links you've provided have done the opposite (i.e., Firing Squad citing users' normal ranges as well as their own)
"Issue" is a loose term considering the cards could perform fine at the temperatures reported by numerous users and reviewers alike. The later access to the fan was primarily for ease-of-mind and convenience. The heating "issue" did not incorporate an idle temp of 90C.
That much is true, but it doesn't make it 90C-@-idle hotter. As BFG10K mentioned, that previous claim of yours is simply wrong to consider as a normal operating temperature for 4800s.
I'll just repost what I posted earlier in reply to BFG10K, since it applies here as well:
There's no need for me to retract any claims, you don't get to come late to the discussion and pick and choose quotes out-of-context as you see fit, sorry. I very clearly stated numerous times the temperature thresholds I was referring to:
- Still, its obvious even their 8800GT results are much better than the 80-90C idle and 90-100C load temps of the 4850s and 4870s at launch, which couldn't even be adjusted until a few driver updates later.
Now once again, do you think temps in an open air environment are going to accurately mirror actual temps from users in closed case environments? Even said reviews clearly acknowledge the potential temperature deltas. Its completely laughable that you and others are going to try and hold me to literal comments like "90C exactly!" when I clearly outlined temperature thresholds in the 80-90C range, going as high as 100C under load. Its even more laughable that you're going to point to open air benchmark results and claim there wasn't a temperature problem with the 4800s because they don't hit "90C on the dot" when they all state heat is clearly an issue.
From the initial HardOCP 8800GT review:
"As a brief overview of what we experienced we found an idle GPU temperature of 61c and a full load GPU temperature of 91c. That full load temperature is very hot for a video card, and keep in mind we are testing in an open-case environment."
8800GT heatsink roundup:
"Many of you know that NVIDIA's 8800 GT can run rather hot under load. Our GTs ran at over 90C. That spells disaster in a hot case."
8800GT OC roundup:
"As you can see above these are very hot-running video cards. They idle at above 60c and get up to around 90c at full load. The memory is in the mid 50s at idle and rises to the mid 70s under load. These temperatures were taken under the best conditions (an open case); if you have a warm case already you might see even higher temperatures and a hot case."
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