Wow, I checked just a couple pages into the thread--all I can say was "The Crucible"?....went directly to the last page and I'm still in Salem? WTF?
Guys, both companies are using tatics right now to compete in advertising. That is the bottom line. Whether one is better at it, or in this case actually, morally worse about it, does not matter as it is still coming from a biased source--the advertiser.
The main problem I see, and this is something that I think Anandtech might even be involved in, is using website benchmarks as advertising for the company. It would really draw sales if you could convince an audience that a product actually does better than the competition. If for some reason a harware review website gets substantial payments from either AEG or HRC so that their "reviews" show support for the corresponding briber/marketing company, you've got a completely scewed retail market.
I don't care if some Anandtech poster/member is telling me to purchase hardware while linking things to the manufacturer's website--I can typically tell the difference between someone who is either REALLY closed-minded and just sticks with one company or who is trying to pursuade me to buy something.
Personally, what did everyone expect? ATI vs. Nvidia has been going on forever and that is what ultimately gives us better products. As long as all of us here remain smart buyers, who cares what advertising they try. I swear, everytime I see those Media-Flash ads like "Ultra Fast!" and "Can support an insane resolution of XXXX x XXXX" I can't help but laugh. No matter what they try the factors of price, performance/support for their needs, and customer service are always what the smarter buyer looks for and while they can be advertised they cannot convince us within just those three main parameters.
Nvidia Owners--Most (here anyway) seem to have EVGA cards. Why? Price, Performance and most definatley the customer service of EVGA.
ATI Owners--Here many don't seem to flock on one company like Nvidia purchasers do with EVGA, but they have their cards because of the Price, and Performance that were offered to them.
While the price of most cards is advertised, most of the time they also say very vague things like, "Unreal 3D graphics!" with too much exageration to it. C'mon, if they're unreal then what are they? Fake graphics? People can spot most marketing gimmicks.
Performance is something that I'm afraid of companies advertising. Most of the time, this is left up for the review sites to find out. However, like I mentioned before, if these reveiw sites start to become a form of advertising, then we're in for some expensive testing on our own parts.
Guys, both companies are using tatics right now to compete in advertising. That is the bottom line. Whether one is better at it, or in this case actually, morally worse about it, does not matter as it is still coming from a biased source--the advertiser.
The main problem I see, and this is something that I think Anandtech might even be involved in, is using website benchmarks as advertising for the company. It would really draw sales if you could convince an audience that a product actually does better than the competition. If for some reason a harware review website gets substantial payments from either AEG or HRC so that their "reviews" show support for the corresponding briber/marketing company, you've got a completely scewed retail market.
I don't care if some Anandtech poster/member is telling me to purchase hardware while linking things to the manufacturer's website--I can typically tell the difference between someone who is either REALLY closed-minded and just sticks with one company or who is trying to pursuade me to buy something.
Personally, what did everyone expect? ATI vs. Nvidia has been going on forever and that is what ultimately gives us better products. As long as all of us here remain smart buyers, who cares what advertising they try. I swear, everytime I see those Media-Flash ads like "Ultra Fast!" and "Can support an insane resolution of XXXX x XXXX" I can't help but laugh. No matter what they try the factors of price, performance/support for their needs, and customer service are always what the smarter buyer looks for and while they can be advertised they cannot convince us within just those three main parameters.
Nvidia Owners--Most (here anyway) seem to have EVGA cards. Why? Price, Performance and most definatley the customer service of EVGA.
ATI Owners--Here many don't seem to flock on one company like Nvidia purchasers do with EVGA, but they have their cards because of the Price, and Performance that were offered to them.
While the price of most cards is advertised, most of the time they also say very vague things like, "Unreal 3D graphics!" with too much exageration to it. C'mon, if they're unreal then what are they? Fake graphics? People can spot most marketing gimmicks.
Performance is something that I'm afraid of companies advertising. Most of the time, this is left up for the review sites to find out. However, like I mentioned before, if these reveiw sites start to become a form of advertising, then we're in for some expensive testing on our own parts.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,007
- 126
:roll:
Trollo was one of the biggest trolls ever created on the internet; there's nothing "charismatic" or "witty" about him. Furthermore the arguments he presented had a child-like IQ to them.
Like when he pimped the unreleased 1.2 Far Cry patch for nVidia's SM 3.0 path and then proclaimed the 1.4 patch that allows HDR + AA on ATi cards wasn't valid because it wasn't available.
And this sort of crap is just one of many arguments he presented in his four year "reign" here.
No, he trolled the forums for four years, got people banned, lied, attacked peoples' personal lives, and threatened to sue Anandtech. He also had multiple accounts and came back on yet another account after his original ones were banned and he was banned again.
That's not "bringing life" to the place, that's a blatant violation of multiple posting guidelines.
I have my suspicions as to why you say that and it has a lot to do with your registration date.
I seem to remember you registered just in time to defend the AEG thread and Trollo was on his last legs, with the title "Crusader" at that. I consider that more than coincidental.
Funny, ATi's base driver is smaller than nVidia's and ATi's combined driver is smaller than nVidia's new control panel version. As for no single slot solution, you are simply trolling and you know it.
But then you're the same nVidia troll that you were when you first registered to defend the Trollo AEG club back in February and I suspect you're just another account for Trollo.
akugami
Diamond Member
- Feb 14, 2005
- 6,210
- 2,552
- 136
I never named any names. I don't care if you do a search because I have not and never did name anyone as a marketing shill until Rollo (and others) came out. I said I suspected nVidia of viral marketing when it's connections to AEG was made known but I didn't rant and rage about it at the time. I did not state anything I'm not stating now. Everything I said about nVidia applies to ATI. I also did not call for a witch hunt even after some of the members in the AEG group were made known and that there were still a couple of others who did not yet surface.
There are two major differences between ATI now and nVidia then. nVidia tried to hide what it was doing with it's viral marketing campaign. Various tech web sites and even a consumer web site like the consumerist that doesn't deal in tech news but rather shady behavior by big companies were stymied left and right when they asked for more information. Even today I still think there is no full disclosure of what really went on behind the scenes with nVidia and AEG. There are just too many questions.
We have yet to see what ATI plans to do but again, I disagree with any and all forms of viral marketing. The other is we also have not (though we probably will soon) see what they plan to do as far as their new marketing agreement goes. If it's an open type deal with designated ATI guys in each forum that's ok. I see nothing wrong with it. It's like what Newegg and OCZ does here.
Bottom line we have yet to see any action from ATI so while I disagree with the move, the jury is still out. We have yet to see ATI hide what it's trying to do like nVidia did. My "hatred" as you call it was not hatred at all but dislike at nVidia's behavior for engaging in viral marketing. I didn't like it but it's no worse than many are doing. Still doesn't make it right but it's a very questionable way of marketing. What my main issue was how nVidia tried to cover the whole issue up. That is what earned my disgust and in your terms hatred. I still do not believe nVidia came clean on the whole AEG issue. Too many questions.
I have never hated nVidia and never will. I have felt many times they didn't put out the best product for my needs for the last few years when I was ready to buy but that's a different story. Sorry but I just don't see what I felt for nVidia as hatred. That is too strong a word and smacks of fanaticism.
I was also disgusted at many nVidia fans for suggesting ATI was doing the same thing (at the time) when there was zero evidence of it. Though there is now very serious questions about ATI's current marketing tactics. nVidia fans also suggested that because everyone was doing it, it was ok for nVidia to do it. As the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a wright. Again, my main issues were that I dislike viral marketing and I really really disliked nVidia lying to cover up shady marketing. If you like it when a company lies to you and then lies to cover up it's lies, then good for you. Me I prefer more honesty.
If you think what I said about nVidia mounted to hatred that's up to you. I don't recall ever hating nVidia though I do clearly recall disgust at nVidia's questionable behavior. Heck, I thought I was pretty even tempered in the AEG thread. If you can point out exactly what I said that sounded hateful to you I'd appreciate it. If you don't want to go into public about the he said she said thing, send a PM.
Am I pro ATI? Never tried to hide it ever. However my affiliation changes with whoever I feel is bringing out the products that suit my needs. Will I be pro nVidia in the future? If they bring out a better product, even if it's from a price/performance perspective I will be. If I really hated nVidia why the heck do I constantly try to help people with nVidia cards when they post here?
Let me comment on my issues with Rollo. I kinda argued with him a bit but then just gave up since he was definitely biased to the point where you knew that he was a true fanboy. I never lobbied for a permanet ban for Rollo. I said he needed a vacation because as I said I don't like viral marketing and I also felt that much of the way he posted was calculated to goad ATI fans/fanboys. He initially said he had a friend from college who works for nVidia, which we now know to be a lie but at the time I believed him which is why I had no problems with him receiving nVidia hardware free or for beta testing purposes. He bends the truth to always favor nVidia. This in and of itself is done by everyone. He takes it to extremes. I can understand glossing over some issues that may not fully support your stance but it seems that every single thing nVidia does is perfect, even if it's unusable. Kinda like some new features including 32xAA at this time. It may become great in the future but that's the future. Feature XYZ used in an obscure game that not many people play, but nVidia supports it so it's an awesome feature even though it's a barely usable feature. Feature ABC is used in two medium sized games and somewhat useable but it's not important because I don't play those games. Or classics like starting an nVidia product and ask for it not to be turned into an nVidia vs ATI affair and then be the first one to do so and when I pm'ed him about it he pretended like he can't read because he totally ignored the fact that he did it first and concentrated instead on the ATI fanboys. How about recommending a $800+ video card that is suppose to MSRP at $600 and calling it a great investment. One of the kickers was someone who said they knew someone inside the nVidia/AEG program and said Rollo was part of the program. I didn't give it much thought at the time. I later heard Rollo had a person or persons banned and even bragged about it because the person accused Rollo of being an nVidia marketing shill affiliated with AEG. Totally and completely low. Sickening behavior. I don't see how anyone can say Rollo was a good or nice person. He was a mean and greedy self serving b@$tard.
I think some of the actions I listed are done by fanboys from both sides of the fence but no one did it to the degree Rollo did. This was before the AEG thing came to light but at the time it seemed like he had inside info (which he did) on positive news on nVidia and negative news on ATI. Quite frankly I was a bit amazed since aside from major announcements like a new video card coming out, most of the more low key news I hear are from other people in forums like AT.
So those are my Rollo thoughts about why I didn't like him. And I said at the time that while I didn't like what he did, I don't know that I would personally turn down someone giving me $500 hardware and stuff to play with to say a few good things about their company. Hypocritical of me? Yep, but I'm honest about it. I will not respond to comments about Rollo. I just threw it in there and reiterated my thoughts on him.
Good God Crusader, don't you see people who are blindly biased such as yourself do not help in getting honest technical issues resolved?
If you are personally for one specific company then at least state it like, "I've had much better luck with X then Y"
or
"In my opinion, X is the better choice for you since....."
or
"I don't know what is causing you to have that happen since I really only deal with X, but some say that with Y drivers, wattage, optimizations, etc. that that can happen. You might..."
Don't just come out and say things as if they are fact especially if you don't personally own the two that are being discussed. Like this:
"Hot, loud cards with bloated/buggy drivers, no single slot solution in sight and poorly marketed to boot.. err, woot?"
You don't own one of those cards. How would you know.
Yes, they are generally hotter than Nvidia's GPU's, but you can't take an Nvidia parameter such as that and apply it to an ATI card. Their GPU's can handle those hotter temps much better than an Nvidia one could, at least in my experience. My 7800GT's would artifact and/or freeze at 77C. My X1900XTX could hit 89C and still be operating fine.
Bloated?/Buggy? drivers, my drivers work as well as my Nvidia's did. I can still play my games and see what's on my screen can't I?
No single slot solution? Uh, what's on the X1900GT? Looks like the old 7800GT ones:thumbsup:
poorly marketed? Um.. this thread is about how their marketing attempts are now equal.
Perhaps you should re-read this thread - http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...STARTPAGE=16&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear - where you're defending Rollo's FUD as the truth. Will I get a retraction from that?
Whether or not you want to aknowledge it, most of the AEG mud slinging was a response to Rollo's campaign to dig up dirt on Ati while covering up Nvidia's blunders. There's nothing like that happening now because no Ati supporter on this forum pisses people off as much as Rollo did with the methods he used to further his agenda. There are more examples than I can remember, but here's a few old threads that you should read:
Broken PVP flamefest
Lie about HDR+AA not working
Shimmering cover up
Should I wait for a retraction from all the Rollo defenders? There will not be any retracion from me for Rollo bashing, because he got what he deserved.
QFT.
Yeah Topweasel, you have really got to get some facts straight. I don't want to seem like BFG's Robin character, but he has always provided help on both ends and even backed himself up with corporate evidence (Nvidia driver release notes, nHancer capabilites--remember that Gstandfor--and all the like). I have yet to see him blatantly say "I love Nvidia" or "I love ATI". Put your pistol back in its holster and quit shooting "fanboy" like you've got parkinson's disease.
Hey just so everyone remembers this isn't a new discussion about the AEG witchhunts that went on months ago, this is a discussion about ATI hiring HRC
And yet is somehow keeps getting brought up along with words like "hypocrites", "flip-flop", "retraction"...
I'm amazed at the strong hate that several members seem to be displaying about a member who is no longer apart of these boards. I saw some of his posts, and while yes, some were spreading around FUD, I never saw anything that would make me hold such a strong grudge that to this day I could not let go of.
I'm begining to think that Rollo was used as the scapegoat for all the ATI trolls to justify their actions. Such that, whenever they wanted to bash nVidia, they could just say it was in response to Rollo. Well guess what, he's not here anymore. That excuse won't work.
And where is your proof that Rollo was even an AEG agent? Does everyone who trolls for one company automatically become placed in either the AEG or HRC stereotype. I guess that means I should assume you, Ackmed, and 5150 Joker are all proudly employed by HRC.
Rollo was an nVidia troll, but that doesn't mean we need ATI trolls to counter that fud. I think that's a big mis-interpretation from people like you, Ackmed, and Joker. When one person trolls, they instantly become discredited, and we all move on. What has happened instead is that we now have a group of soldiers acting as if there is some kind of ATI vs. nVidia war, in which they have been called to fight for ATI.
Topweasel, and myself, are concerned, for lack of a better word, about the fact that many of the AEG screamers have seemed to be relatively quiet about the news of HRC. Instead of blasting off against the immoral practices, they seem to be giving HRC the benefit of the doubt, something they seemed to omit with any regards to AEG.
I could easily say that this issue has esculated because of a strong presence of ATI trolling, the exact thing you claim with about AEG and Rollo. But we all know the real reason why these two issues have generated frusteration. Or atleast I do.
In the end I really don't care for Rollo at all. If He had informed people that where trying to stick up for him that he was part of the AEG group I would never have turned my back on him. But instead He lied to those that saw his usefullness and thats worse then lieing to people who hate him.
My point is accusations including you started way before his outing, And while I over reacted because I saw someone I reconized as someone trashing Nvidia for this process. In the end your more thoughtout posts where sensible to some degree in your reasoning, I still find especially with statements like all form of viral marketing (which you really can't dislike, sales in stores, cuopons, movie tickets, even radio play are forms of viral marketing, us talking in this forum about the features of each card is another viral marketing, just with AEG the hope is to jump start more) being dispised, you current statements in regards to ATI seem to be even weeker almost like a fiegned attempt to keep from coming off as a Hyppocrite.
I just want to see some hatred or appologies. Not some Fake Crocodile tears Like some Gold digger that just killed her 70yr husband and got away with it.
Rollo did openly admit to being an AEG shill, after denying it for a long time. I'm not gonna hunt for the thread, and it's probably deleted by now, but anyone who was here when it happend knows it. In light of that fact, there's no need for me to comment on the rest of your post...
Whooooooh I haven't even come to acussing anyone of being a ATI shill. BFG happened to sling alot of mud at Rollo keys and several others (beggerking I think as well) during the big AEG backlash, not so much in the big threads but inbetween the first 2 (now deleted) AEG threads and the final one, just about every thread these guys posted in. But even then this list was of people the denounced Nvidias involvement in viral marketing as horrible, and insulting anyone who was or thought to be involved in it in this forum.
These are just guys I want to see a blood curdling scream of despise in ATI for their involvement as well. Or I would like to see an appology to everyone they insulted along the way, when they admit that they only had an issue with it because it was Nvidia and not ATI.
Me What I really want above all else is an Appology from Apoppin, for insulting my ethics and moral levels for not hateing Viral marketing completely.
He might of, or not have; that's really not the point. Because regardless of if he did or not, there were people associating him with AEG far before he admitted it. From my understanding, he didn't announce it right when the news of AEG surfaced. Just like nobody would expect you, Ackmed, or Joker to either.
If you're going to cop out of responding to the rest of my post, whatever. It really had nothing to do with Rollo admitting his relationship with AEG or not, but moreso the result of his nVidia trolling which resulted in many members (you, Ackmed, and Joker) jumping on this bandwagon to try to do some kind of justice for ATI.
But again, whatever. I'll take your absent response as a mutual agreement.
You still didn't answere my question, rather you just side stepped it and called out Rollo again.
So Someone with about 10000 posts only created 5-10 Threads. And while most of his threads were about percieved issues with ATI or ATI products, quite a few of them were credible although blown out of proportion by him. The Fact is while his later threads where worse then his earlier ones he made quite a few useful threads. He took the wrong approach to alot and you could say he was tryign to incite a flamefest, doesn't subtract from the validity of the threads he started. Most were never useful because of flaming but the topics if re worded a little could have been used for some very useful discussions. Thats if some people (wink wink) wouldn't try to start a flamewar anyways.
Damn right........
There is nothing to talk about. Every Nvidia fan or any person like myself who considers Viral Marketing not only ok but important in our society has nothing to say about this news. For me in regards to ATI its just another Client on that firms list (which includes Microsoft, who is also a AEG client).
But its the People who trashed Nvidia, any person who support viral marketing, and any person who supported Nvidia, who should have something to say. This is where words like Hypocrite, Flip-Flop and Retraction come into play.
No they don't well not really. Crocodiles let out tears to moisten the eyes since the don't blink while awake. This gives the impression that they are crying but really they are not.
Shamrock
Golden Member
- Oct 11, 1999
- 1,441
- 567
- 136
I dont care about the trolls, or what have you, but I wanted to educate some people. Rollo was wrong in about everything moral he said. He did all those bad things. He deserved his ban, And I am glad he's gone. I wont talk about the others, but someone mentioned BFG10K. Ever since Rollo has left, BFG has calmed down, helped others (including me), provided advice, etc. He isnt with HRC. BFG has even concluded to himself that both companies (and their hardware) that they all have faults! Just yesterday he asked if nV's new drivers needed .NET, why? he's interested in hardware, NOT just ATI. BFG, you can owe me a beer later
all the ATI guys are saying that HRC is "ok" but AEG isnt? It doesnt matter HOW they get the message out, be it forum monitoring or what not....let's break this down.
"VIRAL" marketing. Got a dictionary? The word VIRAL (or VIRUS) is always defined as negative.
1. Any of various simple submicroscopic parasites of plants, animals, and bacteria that often cause disease and that consist essentially of a core of RNA or DNA surrounded by a protein coat. Unable to replicate without a host cell, viruses are typically not considered living organisms.
2. A disease caused by a virus.
3. Anything that is injurious, destructive, or fatal
In other words, VIRAL marketing is NOT WANTED. Being a terminally ill patient, the word virus is well known to me. It is NOT WANTED here!!! It's never wanted in your body, on your PC, or on a forum. Whether it's AEG, HRC, or ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ company. Viral marketing is bad, no matter what their intent. Word of mouth, or whatever you want to call it, is different in that WOM usually comes from friends, not strangers on the internet. I've only had one problem with someone here, and that's Joker, the advertising he's done for ATI is ridiculous, almost to the point that he "seems" like he's an ATI employee, not just a fan of a video card. When I called him on his adverts in his sig, they mysteriously dissappeared a couple days after? pfft.
But in the AEG witchhunt, I saw things like "I'll never own nV again" or "the president should resign", or "how can you live with yourself for owning immoral hardware". etc. What about ATI now? you gonna never own ATI again? How can you live with yourself? Should ATI's president resign? Dont answer to me, these are rhetorical questions to answer yourself. Personally I could care less, NO ONE on these forums helps me decide what hardware to buy. I bought nV because it is easily implemented into Linux. If ATI were, I would have bought a X1900XT (they do have attractive prices). I have even recommended a few ATI cards, and installed them!
I'm not out for any witch hunt, but this forum needs cleaned up.
I'm done pick it apart if you like. Have a nice day!
all the ATI guys are saying that HRC is "ok" but AEG isnt? It doesnt matter HOW they get the message out, be it forum monitoring or what not....let's break this down.
"VIRAL" marketing. Got a dictionary? The word VIRAL (or VIRUS) is always defined as negative.
1. Any of various simple submicroscopic parasites of plants, animals, and bacteria that often cause disease and that consist essentially of a core of RNA or DNA surrounded by a protein coat. Unable to replicate without a host cell, viruses are typically not considered living organisms.
2. A disease caused by a virus.
3. Anything that is injurious, destructive, or fatal
In other words, VIRAL marketing is NOT WANTED. Being a terminally ill patient, the word virus is well known to me. It is NOT WANTED here!!! It's never wanted in your body, on your PC, or on a forum. Whether it's AEG, HRC, or ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ company. Viral marketing is bad, no matter what their intent. Word of mouth, or whatever you want to call it, is different in that WOM usually comes from friends, not strangers on the internet. I've only had one problem with someone here, and that's Joker, the advertising he's done for ATI is ridiculous, almost to the point that he "seems" like he's an ATI employee, not just a fan of a video card. When I called him on his adverts in his sig, they mysteriously dissappeared a couple days after? pfft.
But in the AEG witchhunt, I saw things like "I'll never own nV again" or "the president should resign", or "how can you live with yourself for owning immoral hardware". etc. What about ATI now? you gonna never own ATI again? How can you live with yourself? Should ATI's president resign? Dont answer to me, these are rhetorical questions to answer yourself. Personally I could care less, NO ONE on these forums helps me decide what hardware to buy. I bought nV because it is easily implemented into Linux. If ATI were, I would have bought a X1900XT (they do have attractive prices). I have even recommended a few ATI cards, and installed them!
I'm not out for any witch hunt, but this forum needs cleaned up.
I'm done pick it apart if you like. Have a nice day!
I'm not "witch hunting", I'm simply trying to get them to admit they were at fault for witch hunting. Obviously, Ackmed doesn't get it.
Originally posted by: Nelsieus
You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
"Fires, misinformation, rumors, leaks, message board monitoring..." this has nothing to do with AEG's Viral marketing. Instead, it seems you're doing some marketing of your own, by taking words out of context and trying to use them to your advantage. It would probably help if you made sure the real facts weren't as easily accesible, that way nobody could catch you in your lame attempts to try to murky up the facts.
Crisis management has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I'm amazed you just went to the site and copy / pasted a bunch of words that you thought would aid in your FUD attempts. Lol, honestly, why on earth would nVidia hire an agency to "leak" their products, or giveout mis-information. Either you are heavely confused, or just adamently realizing that you have nothing left to argue, and thus are trying to go for whatever you can.
The only difference between AEG and HRC is that AEG uses "Viral programs," where as HRC uses "Viral campaigns." Please explain the difference that's causing you to favor HRC much more (or is the fact that they work for ATI)?
Oh, now about the article from HardOCP:
I must say, I now have the verification from your sleezy actions that you really are an ATI troll. Thank you for making it so obvious.
QFT!
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