ATI drivers suck...(actually they don't, and haven't for a long time)

[dug777]

I've owned a gf4 mx440, a 9200SE, a 9600XT, a 9800 pro, and now a 6600GT.

I've never had a problem with ATI drivers (although all the ati cards i have owned have been in the last two years), and since the introduction of the CCC, i can't see how anyone could say the nvidia driver layout/ease of use/helpfulness comes close to touching this...

The CCC clearly lays everything out for you, has an active 3d window so you can see in real time roughly what effect the changes you are making have, and gives people new to the gaming scene a little bit of info on what each setting does, ATI have an excellent theater controls page(video settings page, other than an video overlay settings tab i can't see anything else in the 81.85 drivers in this area), where as nvidia lacks any of these features...the only point you could argue is the layout, and as a veteran of previous nvidia drivers and a long time gamer, even i was a little taken aback when i went to change some driver settings when i first got my 6600GT a month or so ago...

Throw into the regular monthly updates, and ATI drivers are looking pretty awesome to me at least...

I suggest that the belief that ATI drivers suck is a hangover from the days (long gone now) where they did have problems, and of course the fact that many who like to say 'ATI drivers suck' have never used them and merely read someone saying this, and thought 'oooh, another great reason to bash ati (even tho i have no experience/current experience of their drivers )'...

I'm not bashing nvidia drivers here by any means, but i think that this is one preconception of ATI that need to be put to bed, stat.

 

[Duvie]

This is pure flamebait....especialy with your subtitle...

I agree I have not had anymore issues with drivers for ATis then Nvidias....They are both about the same..They both need to have clean installs for the most part to insure 100% working order....My ATi AIW card was a bastard to install drivers on due to a very precise order needed to install all of the WDM drivers, Control Panel, hydravision, DX whatever, etc....

 

[First]

ATI are teh suck.

 

[First]

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Duvie
This is pure flamebait....especialy with your subtitle...

I agree I have not had anymore issues with drivers for ATis then Nvidias....They are both about the same..They both need to have clean installs for the most part to insure 100% working order....My ATi AIW card was a bastard to install drivers on due to a very precise order needed to install all of the WDM drivers, Control Panel, hydravision, DX whatever, etc....

i edited to reflect that, but you and i both know it was true...

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
ATI are teh suck.

hehe nice to see you in here :Q

 

[Madellga]

Originally posted by: Duvie
This is pure flamebait....especialy with your subtitle...

I agree I have not had anymore issues with drivers for ATis then Nvidias....They are both about the same..They both need to have clean installs for the most part to insure 100% working order....My ATi AIW card was a bastard to install drivers on due to a very precise order needed to install all of the WDM drivers, Control Panel, hydravision, DX whatever, etc....

I have a AIW in my lan box and never had this issue with the order. Just download the complete package and execute the express install.

I agree with Dug. Since Cat. series, never had an issue with the ATIs. I have never needed to update the Cat. because some game had black floors or walls, missing textures, etc.

When I went back to Nvidia, I found the driver's layout difficult to handle. At 1920x1200, the driver tab is small: with so much desktop space, why do we have to work in a tiny box? I needed also to patch some games, otherwise they wouldn't work (such as Farcry).

 

[blckgrffn]

Well, try using an older AIW since the are still perfectly good for that application (7500, 8500, 8500DV, ect) and it is a whorish process. There is no one complete install, instead it is like 5 packages that have to be installed in the same order.

AIW in general sucks compared to any other solution on that same visual and audio par even with the newest releases. Constant crashes and configuration issues. Once it works, don't mess with it! My Leadtek tv tuner is much more stable and easy to use!

Other than that, I have had very few problems with ATI drivers, other than that the newest ones break older games (like system shock 2, for instance) that I realize not many play anymore, but why are they broken?

I have had used ATI since way back when before cats and I had to install different drivers for different games when I first got my 8500. Since then, they have been A) easy to install/uninstall and B) as stable as any nvidia counterpart that I have used.

Nat

 

[blckgrffn]

*what the heck was that? I quoted my own post? Weird!*

 

[sandorski]

Another myth is that Nvidia releases drivers more often. Heard that recently somewhere and I was all WTF?

 

[gunblade]

Did anyone of you try Ati linux driver and need to use both output?

I had a time trying to setup one of Ati based laptop to run dual output as I need to demo a simulation running on linux.

Besides, on the stereoscopic side, Ati doesn't even provide driver that support the feature while Nvidia had it ever since geforce 2.

On the windows side of things, Ati does fine but for anything out of mainstream they still sucks.

 

[niggles]

I thought there was a no flame bait rule.

 

[DeathReborn]

All the catalysts I got for my old 9600 were rubbish. They always broke something, be it a game or a program something always started to get errors. I have NOT had those issues with nVidia so quite frankly:

ATI DRIVERS SUCK!

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: niggles
I thought there was a no flame bait rule.

i edited the flame bait-esque bit. As far as i can see my OP is logical, reasoned, and intelligent. You are free to reply in a logical, reasoned, and intelligent fashion.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: gunblade
Did anyone of you try Ati linux driver and need to use both output?

I had a time trying to setup one of Ati based laptop to run dual output as I need to demo a simulation running on linux.

Besides, on the stereoscopic side, Ati doesn't even provide driver that support the feature while Nvidia had it ever since geforce 2.

On the windows side of things, Ati does fine but for anything out of mainstream they still sucks.

Linux is another story.

 

[jiffylube1024]

I agree - ATI's drivers have been solid since around 4.11 . Yet some people still maintain that they 'suck' . I haven't had any problems with them recently, and I actually prefer the layout of their drivers to Nvidia's slightly.

ATI also has better multi-monitor support. When I disconnect one of my LCD's, it readjusts and makes the other one the primary. When I tried that on my 6600GT, it screwed everything up and I needed to reboot.

I think a lot of people who maintain that ATI's drivers are crap are commenting based on ignorance (eg they haven't tried them recently or swapped video drivers without fully uninstalling old ones; as Duvie said, a big no-no for either company), or they're generalizing based on something else, eg worse OpenGL performance.

 

[BenSkywalker]

As soon as ATi fixes their years old driver bugs, comes out with a decent OpenGL driver and fixes their horrific Linux support then you will get people on the path to forgetting about their driver troubles.

Saying "ATi's drivers have been great under Windows in the D3D games I happen to play" is a very long way removed from them actually being any good. Been stuck with ATi drivers in my main rig for the last ~18 months, they certainly still do suck.

 

[gunblade]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
As soon as ATi fixes their years old driver bugs, comes out with a decent OpenGL driver and fixes their horrific Linux support then you will get people on the path to forgetting about their driver troubles.

Saying "ATi's drivers have been great under Windows in the D3D games I happen to play" is a very long way removed from them actually being any good. Been stuck with ATi drivers in my main rig for the last ~18 months, they certainly still do suck.

Well said!

 

[CP5670]

Other than that, I have had very few problems with ATI drivers, other than that the newest ones break older games (like system shock 2, for instance) that I realize not many play anymore, but why are they broken?

I haven't used any ATI cards/drivers for a long time but this is something I've heard about for a number of older games (new drivers supposedly break old games that used to work fine on older drivers). If it's really true, I would consider it quite unacceptable. I know of at least one game where it's been confirmed that only 4.4 and earlier drivers work correctly.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
As soon as ATi fixes their years old driver bugs...

Elaborate please. My crystal ball says it's something esoteric.

Saying "ATi's drivers have been great under Windows in the D3D games I happen to play" is a very long way removed from them actually being any good.

That's great, but aside from the bad Linux support what problems are you experiencing exactly? What are these year-old driver bugs you are describing?

Been stuck with ATi drivers in my main rig for the last ~18 months, they certainly still do suck.

Considering the fact that, last I heard, you're using a 9700 class card, if ATI's drivers are so bad, then why haven't you changed to an Nvidia card, instead of suffering through their terrible driver support for 18 months? A second question: do you believe Nvidia's Windows drivers are significantly better than ATI's? If so, explain how they are better and I will listen to you.

Regarding Linux: any Direct3d or OpenGL game will perform fine on an ATI card in Windows, relative to a comparative Nvidia card. If you want to play the games in Linux, we know the drill: get a GeForce.

Originally posted by: CP5670

Other than that, I have had very few problems with ATI drivers, other than that the newest ones break older games (like system shock 2, for instance) that I realize not many play anymore, but why are they broken?

I haven't used any ATI cards/drivers for a long time but this is something I've heard about for a number of older games (new drivers supposedly break old games that used to work fine on older drivers). If it's really true, I would consider it quite unacceptable. I know of at least one game where it's been confirmed that only 4.4 and earlier drivers work correctly.

I heard Nvidia eats babies. If it's really true, I would consider it quite unacceptable and frankly I won't stand for it.

Seriously, that System Shock 2 issue is news to me, but that is unfortunate (never played the game, but it's supposed to rock). I haven't had any problems playing any "old" game in recent memory on an ATI card (eg. Max Payne 1 and 2, Halo, Quake 2/3, No One Lives Forever, etc.)...

 

[BenSkywalker]

Elaborate please. My crystal ball says it's something esoteric.

Sac, still hosed after years.

Considering the fact that, last I heard, you're using a 9700 class card, if ATI's drivers are so bad, then why haven't you changed to an Nvidia card, instead of suffering through their terrible driver support for 18 months?

Because, as hard as it is to believe, the IQ on nVidia parts is even worse then that of the R3x0 series. The drivers at least have stopped rebooting/crashing all the time- and that is a huge improvement- but I've been waiting until a board with decent IQ came along. If nVidia had one, then I would certainly be picking it up. They don't. I'm not.

A second question: do you believe Nvidia's Windows drivers are significantly better than ATI's? If so, explain how they are better and I will listen to you.

Not a single issue has ever turned in to a multi year episode with nVidia that I have ever been able to find. I have nV parts running in the secondary rigs in the house(don't want to explain to the kids why they can't play the games they want because ATi's driver team sucks so bad) and if there are issues they are fixed. It may take them a bit of time in some cases, but you know they will fix them. ATi refuses to fix the Sac bug.

Regarding Linux: any Direct3d or OpenGL game will perform fine on an ATI card in Windows, relative to a comparative Nvidia card. If you want to play the games in Linux, we know the drill: get a GeForce.

And how is this not related to their driver team? Compromise, bend over backwards and close your eyes most of the way and ATi's drivers are good- none of that is required with nV and THAT is why people still state the fact that ATi's drivers are second rate.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I agree - ATI's drivers have been solid since around 4.11 . Yet some people still maintain that they 'suck' . I haven't had any problems with them recently, and I actually prefer the layout of their drivers to Nvidia's slightly.

ATI also has better multi-monitor support. When I disconnect one of my LCD's, it readjusts and makes the other one the primary. When I tried that on my 6600GT, it screwed everything up and I needed to reboot.

I think a lot of people who maintain that ATI's drivers are crap are commenting based on ignorance (eg they haven't tried them recently or swapped video drivers without fully uninstalling old ones; as Duvie said, a big no-no for either company), or they're generalizing based on something else, eg worse OpenGL performance.

good point about ATIs multi-monitor support, i had forgotten about that, i certainly found it better with my 9800 pro (hydravsion is awesome) cf my 6600GT...

I love how all the points i stated have generally (even totally) been ignored by naysayers, and they've gone off on their own agenda...better layout, CCC looks/ease of use/helpfulness/video settings options...insignificant? I think not.

linux is a non issue for anyone who seriously games atm(deny that all you like, but how many big games were released for linux in the last year, what % of sales did they make up of total pc game sales?), and i don't see or suffer from any of these '1 year old game bugs' in fact i've never even heard of them (tho, what is Sacrifice, i've actually heard that mentioned, but never seen it reviewed, or used as a benchmark ). I'd be careful about slinging mud at ati for that tho, since as far as i'm aware the 'shimmering' still isn't fixed, and the farcry shadow bug certainly isn't...

and @ skywalker, this line that is completely ott, and makes you look a bit immature to say the least 'don't want to explain to the kids why they can't play the games they want because ATi's driver team sucks to bad'

 

[jiffylube1024]

Ben, I don't know what you're doing on the PC that causes a yearlong episode... Forgive my ignorance, but what is the Sac bug exactly? And is that the only problem you've been having?

I have absolutely, positively no idea what games your kids are playing, because I can't think of anything recent that would have issues that would cause problems with kids. Don't tell me that your kids can't stand angle-dependent anisotropic filtering or something? "Daddy, why is this line in the distance on my legos smooth and this one on a 45 degree angle fuzzy?"

Regarding Linux: any Direct3d or OpenGL game will perform fine on an ATI card in Windows, relative to a comparative Nvidia card. If you want to play the games in Linux, we know the drill: get a GeForce.

And how is this not related to their driver team? Compromise, bend over backwards and close your eyes most of the way and ATi's drivers are good- none of that is required with nV and THAT is why people still state the fact that ATi's drivers are second rate.

I think you're creating an unfair generalization here based on a specific case. ATI's Linux drivers suck. Therefore, their driver team sucks. Ergo, ATI's Windows drivers suck?

ATI seems to focus on Windows (and in particular D3D) entirely. That is why their Linux drivers suck. They just don't seem to give a crap right now...

You're speaking once again in generalities and not giving specific cases aside form "Sac bug" . Does FEAR/BF2/Half Life 2/Doom3/WoW/ etc work without problems on an ATI card? That's all that most people care about...

 

[CP5670]

I heard Nvidia eats babies. If it's really true, I would consider it quite unacceptable and frankly I won't stand for it.

Seriously, that System Shock 2 issue is news to me, but that is unfortunate (never played the game, but it's supposed to rock). I haven't had any problems playing any "old" game in recent memory on an ATI card (eg. Max Payne 1 and 2, Halo, Quake 2/3, No One Lives Forever, etc.)...

We must resist these evil GPU companies! :laugh:

The game I was referring to was Freespace 2. There is a long standing problem there with ATI drivers newer than 4.4 breaking the specular lighting, without which things look pretty ugly. If System Shock 2 doesn't work at all then that would really suck, since it's an awesome game and it works fine for me on an Nvidia card. Nvidia has its own issues like the Far Cry shadows, but saying that ATI drivers all work great is misleading.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: CP5670

The game I was referring to was Freespace 2. There is a long standing problem there with ATI drivers newer than 4.4 breaking the specular lighting, without which things look pretty ugly. If System Shock 2 doesn't work at all then that would really suck, since it's an awesome game and it works fine for me on an Nvidia card. Nvidia has its own issues like the Far Cry shadows, but saying that ATI drivers all work great is misleading.

This is how rumours get started...

I never said System Shock 2 doesn't work at all, so don't look at me. Ask blckgrffn what he meant by newest drivers "breaking" older games; it could be not working or just filtering errors, shadows not working, etc.

--------------

Saying ATI drivers work great is not misleading, it's very cut and dry. And I would also say Nvidia drivers work great. For recent games.

If you're playing games that were not designed for current hardware or anything in the past four years, then it's not too surprising that issues can arise.

I'm saying that for the vast majority of popular DirectX 8 and DX9 titles, and especially popular games in the last few years, you can play them with either an Nvidia or ATI card - their drivers both work great.

You can throw in examples of old games not working, and that is a problem, but don't make it sound like the drivers are buggy, etc - they're not. They simply have problem running games that were not designed for them.