ati cards

wudood

Member
Jul 27, 2001
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i just installed my 9500 pro yesterday, after removing all traces of anything nvidia. it gave me so much sh!t. here's a list of troubles:

1. the hardware wizard pops up each time i load windows; i now have an unknown PCI device.
2. i once REBOOTED my computer, only to have my motherboard give me the beep sequence for "no video card installed." what the heck?? it was working just before i rebooted!
3. video drivers give me no confidence. if ati can make such a great card, why can't their driver package be robust enough? right on their site it says that people should only update their drivers if they're currently having a problem. furthermore, u have to uninstall old drivers first. why can't ati make their drivers good enough so that i can easily update my drivers without worrying if i'm doing something wrong?
4. in my BIOS, i have my AGP set to 8X with fast writes on. in windows, catalyst says 4x and fast writes off. i hit "retest all" and fast writes turns on, but stays at 4x. i keep changing the settings to correspond to what the BIOS says, and it took 3 or 4 reboots for catalyst to finally get 8x correct, but it still says fast writes are off. WTF!??


so besides dx9 support, what's so great about these cards? someone show me that it's worth all this crap. oh, what i'm at it, how can i experience the supposed awesomeness of dx9 support?

i don't understand why people are even against nVidia cards. i think maybe it's cuz they're popular or something, and people need to be more l337. but nVidia has never given me problems in my computer-building endeavors. perhaps i haven't dealt enough with ATI.. but the experience i've had with this single card is just hammering the nail into the coffin all the notions i've gotten from ATI horror stories. last thing, i think, and it could be a big or little point.. but my ati card has a 3-year warranty. my previous nvidia card.. a bfg ti4600.. has a lifetime warranty. if third party geforce makers can give a lifetime warranty, how come an ati-built card can't do the same? i don't know how much water this idea holds.. but.. i'd like a lifetime warranty. gives me more confidence in my card.. something ATI has pretty much totally failed to do.
 

JustAnAverageGuy

Diamond Member
Aug 1, 2003
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Originally posted by: wudood

so besides dx9 support, what's so great about these cards? someone show me that it's worth all this crap. oh, what i'm at it, how can i experience the supposed awesomeness of dx9 support?

Aside from extremely superior image quality, not so washed out drivers, actually superior hardware, not being an overpriced POS GF FX...

uh.... and something else... *Waits for next post*
 

wudood

Member
Jul 27, 2001
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Aside from extremely superior image quality, not so washed out drivers, actually superior hardware, not being an overpriced POS GF FX...

- extremely superior? give me a side-by-side comparison, cuz i don't see it.
- washed out drivers? what does this mean?
- actually superior hardware. ok, i've heard this one. nevertheless, why is it giving me hardware issues i've never had? and if it is reeeeally superior hardware, why not give me a lifetime warranty?
- overpriced? i paid $150 for the ti4600 at fry's. the lowest price for the 9500 was around $190 oem at a reseller with no reputation. now, this isn't much of an argument, considering the two cards might not be comparable to each other, and since ati is "superior" and all.. but i haven't yet to see this superiority.

so.. yeah.. someone SHOW me, and don't make any "i have ATI, i am The Sh!t" remarks.
 

wudood

Member
Jul 27, 2001
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oh.. btw.. i realize this might turn into an ati vs nvidia war.. but i totally did not intend that. i just don't want to return my geforce before fully realizing how awesome the ati is, or something. likewise, if i should really return my ati, i'd like to know.
 

Maleficus

Diamond Member
May 2, 2001
7,682
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ATi has better image quality. im not going to do all the searching for u. Search for Aquamark 3d comparisons. This ties in with the 'washed out drivers' nvidia uses to gain performence

ATi has superior hardware. Their hardware is ACTUALLY DX9 compliant where as Nvidia is kinda sorta. Look at the benchies for all DX9 games.

The 9600 Pro RAPES basically everything nvidia has for newer games. it can be had for ~200 dollars and under. the FX5900 Ultra (that is can contend with in HL2 Benchies) is like 500$.

Maybe you should experiment with your card though and try to get it working before u judge the hardware? did you remove the old drivers etc etc before putting in this card?

Nvidia uses bullshit business tactics, refuses to admit their mistakes & has inferior products. That is why people are against nvidia.
 

Finnkc

Senior member
Jul 9, 2003
422
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every ATI Card I have ever owned has been a nightmare ... So I use Nvidia now ... so what if 9x is slower on an Nvidia ... lol it just came out. I have faith in Nvidia and I will just be patent and wait for them to make a proper 9x card. No Biggy really.

Ill take the slower card with less trouble then a fast card full of issues ...
 

wudood

Member
Jul 27, 2001
70
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ATi has better image quality. im not going to do all the searching for u. Search for Aquamark 3d comparisons. This ties in with the 'washed out drivers' nvidia uses to gain performence

oh ok, i see.

ATi has superior hardware. Their hardware is ACTUALLY DX9 compliant where as Nvidia is kinda sorta. Look at the benchies for all DX9 games.

i understand this already :D

The 9600 Pro RAPES basically everything nvidia has for newer games. it can be had for ~200 dollars and under. the FX5900 Ultra (that is can contend with in HL2 Benchies) is like 500$.

is the 9600pro comparable to the 5900 ultra though? should i get that instead? fry's had it as well..

Maybe you should experiment with your card though and try to get it working before u judge the hardware? did you remove the old drivers etc etc before putting in this card?

i've BEEN trying to get it to work though. i mean that's like part of the point i'm making. it is a bitch. judge the hardware? i'm not really judging, i'm just giving my impressions and hoping someone can give me some guidance as to why i should ignore these bad first impressions. and yes, i went through a lengthy process of uninstalling old drivers with detonator destroyer which involved 3 reboots into safe mode. i even went into device manager to remove traces.

Nvidia uses bullshit business tactics, refuses to admit their mistakes & has inferior products. That is why people are against nvidia.

i don't know anything about their business tactics, but i'll say ok. that probably gives people a reason to lose confidence in them likewise.
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
2
76
1. Sounds like you didn't install the drivers properly to begin with or the card is not selected as the default device.
2. You probably did not have it seated properly.
3. This is common in drivers/bios. If I'm using 3.4 and 3.7 fixes a glitch in a game that I don't play but provides no other improvements why would I upgrade the deivers.
4.Did you click "apply". You may also need to update MB bios and retest. It is resetting to 4X because smartgart is detecting your motherboard will not support 8X and fast writes.

A three year warranty is sufficient. If your card is going to fail due to design or faulty parts it will do so in that time. Parts on the board have a finite life so if you sent a four year old card back to Nvidia they would tell you the life of the card is up.

You did something wrong. I'm not there to figure out what it is but don't blame the card.
 

robcy

Senior member
Jun 8, 2003
503
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I often read about people that have trouble when switching from one card to the next. I have never experienced such problems. I simple go the ADD/REMOVE programs and delete any software for the card, then go to the device manager and remove the current card. I turn off machine, and replace card. When I restart machine it has always recognized the new hardware, and asked for the new drivers, and that is it. Then in display settings you adjust as needed. I have done this when changing from Nvidia to ATI and ATI to Nvidia, and with other cards from Maxtor, and S3, and the new SIS Xabre's, and different platforms from Intel, AMD, and chipsets from VIA, SIS, Intel, and NF2's. Am I just lucky, I mean what are the odds of that. I think all of that removing stuff is what is causing all of the problems.

And another thought I just had
ATI drivers Before=BAD \ Now=Good
Nvidia image quality Before=BAD \ Now=Good
Ati has had good drivers since the Catalyst came out (truth), and Nvidia Image quality has been just as good as ATI since the GF3* (truth).

*The GF4MX really are GF2's (they do not count)
 

wudood

Member
Jul 27, 2001
70
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Originally posted by: fredtam
1. Sounds like you didn't install the drivers properly to begin with or the card is not selected as the default device.
2. You probably did not have it seated properly.
3. This is common in drivers/bios. If I'm using 3.4 and 3.7 fixes a glitch in a game that I don't play but provides no other improvements why would I upgrade the deivers.
4.Did you click "apply". You may also need to update MB bios and retest. It is resetting to 4X because smartgart is detecting your motherboard will not support 8X and fast writes.

A three year warranty is sufficient. If your card is going to fail due to design or faulty parts it will do so in that time. Parts on the board have a finite life so if you sent a four year old card back to Nvidia they would tell you the life of the card is up.

You did something wrong. I'm not there to figure out what it is but don't blame the card.


1. there's only one way to install the drivers and that is by selecting "install" on the catalyst CD. i'll check the default device thing though.. but it's what shows up in the video properties.
2. probably.. but i am pretty sure i made sure it was.
3. i guess it's nice to just be up to date.
4. yeah, i hit apply each time.. it says "windows needs to reboot" etc when i do. i will try updating the MB bios, though i think they are up to date due to my zealousness of being up to date :p

would nvidia send me a new one though? he he he..

maybe i am asking too much for this whole process to be easy?
 

StraightPipe

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2003
1,676
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sorry wudood, you might want to start another thread without the agressive anti-ATI stance, your getting flamed by the rabid Nvidia haters.

you need to be sure you have all the old cards drivers deleted, then download the newest drivers. uninstall the drivers your using and try again with the new drivers you just downloaded, once you try that you ought to start a new thread and request they keep the flames at a minimum, of course that would depend on your atitude too.
 

Maleficus

Diamond Member
May 2, 2001
7,682
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Originally posted by: StraightPipe
sorry wudood, you might want to start another thread without the agressive anti-ATI stance, your getting flamed by the rabid Nvidia haters.

you need to be sure you have all the old cards drivers deleted, then download the newest drivers. uninstall the drivers your using and try again with the new drivers you just downloaded, once you try that you ought to start a new thread and request they keep the flames at a minimum, of course that would depend on your atitude too.

where? I own a 5600FX Ultra btw.
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
2
76
wudood which motherboard are you using?
What I meant by installing the drivers also includes removing the old and people try many ways to do that.
 

JackNimble

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2003
21
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0
I just installed my first ATI card (9800 Pro 128MB) and I have not had a single problem... it runs all my games at 1600x1200 w 4xAA and all effects to maximum without a dropped or choppy frame anywhere...

JackNimble
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
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wudood, this is the way I did it for my Nvidia card,did you install Driver cleaner 2 program(see below) then disable your network connection, uninstall your nvidia drivers first via Control panel ,boot into safe mode if wizard comes up detecting hardware hit cancel then run cab cleaner(in tools menu of driver cleaner 2 ,only needed to be run once if you use 2K/XP) then run driver cleaner for nvidia files, after before you reboot back to desktop shut PC down,install new ATi card & boot back up ,when hardware wizard detects card hit cancel (twice it should come up)and install latest drivers at desktop (infact the single complete driver package from ATi`s site CATs 3.7,download them first so you`ve them ready) after it has installed driver and control panel you need to reboot & all done( don`t forget to enable your network connection ).

Fastwrites is best off in BIOS and SMARTGART if you want maximum stability,the performance increase is so small anyway.


.

Link to Driver Cleaner 2 .

 

wudood

Member
Jul 27, 2001
70
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0
yikes.. i didn't think i had that big of an anti-ati stance, i didn't intend it.. maybe i was just spitting back all the pro-ati feelings, or something? i really appreciate all the people replying and everything. i don't really feel like i'm getting flamed either though, haha, but oh well..

JavaMomma.. that is cool. i esp. enjoyed the "FREAK'n KICK ASS performance" and "BITCH'N visual effects." i think that would be enough for me to get it lol.. like i said, the point might not hold much water hehe..

goodness.. drivers.. i did a lot to remove all drivers.. if i can find the post i followed.. it was in extreme overclocking.. the guy said to use detonator destroyer.. reboot into safe mode, go into device manager and remove all references to nvidia.. reboot to safe mode again, run detonator destoryer.. etc.

fredtam: i'm using abit nf7-s rev2. yeah.. removed old drivers, hit cancel on all hardware wizard popups.. but i didn't do it they way Mem did, what with cab cleaner etc, although maybe i wish i had. AND i didn't disable my network connection. how was i supposed to know that though?? i DID make a post here a while back about switching my geforce with the radeon.. it got like 2 replies. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=1131827&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE= heheh. Mem: i will keep fastwrites off then, that is good to know. so, should i just redo everything? just follow those steps right now?
 

Overkiller

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2003
2,461
0
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why does everyone seem to have problems w/ ATi cards?
i owned the *infamous* radeon 64MB DDR Vivo(now a 9700 pro) and never had any trouble installing it, switch pcs w/ it, nor w/ any games or drivers( play a lot of the latest games)...

seriously what do you ppl do to these poor cards...

Proper installation:

-Take card out of box
-Remove anti-static bag from card
-take side of case off (assuming pc is already off and u are grounded)
-Stick card in AGP slot...
-Push on button
-Let winXp do its thing then go to ati website and update...
-Or if one does not have winXp let it remain unknown then go to ati website and update
-click on shortcut for game
-enjoy

:)

I'm sorry but it seems that a lot of these *video card* threads are just trolling campaigns. I dont know....

And another thing for the original poster of this...If you bought this card @ a retail store take a close look at it. There is a huge market going on of scammed hardware and or defective hardware @ retail stores...i.e. someone buys a 9700 pro to replace their radeon 64 MB ddr vivo and puts the 64 MB radeon in the 9700 pro box and says that the card is defective..voila instant cash or store credit...i know this sounds stupid but it is a growing market....to add more insult to injury a lot of these returned parts end up back on the shelf in retail packaging...

i found this out first hand when my 9700 Pro was only a 9500 NP...needless to say i was flipping pissed off @ the store...(granted i scammed Circuit city into thinking that best buy across the street was having a $80 sale on 9700 pros so i got $85 dollar discount...but....its the principle..lol)

lastly...umm...before you go into a huge rant against 1 particular part make sure all avenues for error have been checked....hopefully this issue wasn't easily addressed in like the 5th post b/c i didn't get that far so if i make a fool out of myself so be it! tired of all the *this card suxxxxxxxxxxxxx* threads. :p
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
2
76
I would to prevent problems down the road. The hardware wizard popping up still confuses me. If the drivers are there and it is selected as the default device in device manager it should not pop up. Before I did a complete reinstall I would throw the cd in and see if it will repair it. Maybe a file got corrupted along the way.
 

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
7,608
0
0
I made the switch w/ no problems. If nVidia keeps this up I'd never go back despite being pro-nVidia for so long. And how can anyone say they'll wait for nVidia...you could be waiting while everyone w/ ATi hardware is posting screenshots of those 60ft tall monsters in HL2.
-doug
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
wudood,just follow the Driver Cleaner 2 instructions it`s quite simple.Anyway you could try removing the ATi drivers via Control Panel ( remove ATi Control panel first then ATi drivers after) boot into safe mode and follow the driver cleaner guide,after that has cleaned the files reboot back into normal desktop and install CATs 3.7.


Remember Driver Cleaner can do both ATi and Nvidia drivers.


Get CATs3.7 ATi drivers from here .

I use it all the time even when I update my ATi drivers(I always remove old ones first and boot into safe mode and run DC2) ,good little program DC2.

wudood what OS are you using 98? If so driver Cab cleaner is not needed on 98/ME , it`s only needed to be run once only on 2K/XP before you run Driver Cleaner.
There`s a readme file in Driver Cleaner that tells you what to do,very simple instruction guide.