ATi can....die

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
Regardless of performance, NV is whipping the snot out of ATi when it comes to availability this time around...

The X800XL and X850XT and PE are as easy, or easier to get than comparable NV cards. Cheaper too.

You people need to get that thru your heads.

 

[madoka]

The X800XL and X850XT and PE are as easy, or easier to get than comparable NV cards. Cheaper too.

You people need to get that thru your heads.

Hmmm. . . I just got my 6800 Ultra for $350 AR last week as did a lot of others. Care to tell me which ATI cards are cheaper and easier to get?

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: malak
Hold up, this is rather odd. For one thing, he ordered it the day it was announced, and just now got this email. I ordered it as soon as it was available through alienware and got mine like a month ago. Plus, the card is available at online retailers, so it's out there.

And give up on the paper launch nonsense. They sold out! It happens! Get over it! They are the #1 producer of graphics chipsets, demand was high!

Intel is the #1 producer of graphics chipsets.

 

[thegimp03]

yeah, "manufacturing problems", the classic "excuse" to charge outrageously high prices that stupid people will pay just to help out their e-p3nises. whatever...

 

[PlasticJesus]

9AM Eastern Central time.

What is that? Is that like a choice between Eastern or Central time?

This business with ATI and everyone else is getting really old really quick. What is Newegg selling the AIW X800XT for? Something like $520? That's crazy.

 

[gsellis]

Wow, ATI Online is as bad as Gateway. Take orders and then cancel them because they cannot fill them? That is BS regardless of the merits or availability of the card.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: madoka

The X800XL and X850XT and PE are as easy, or easier to get than comparable NV cards. Cheaper too.

You people need to get that thru your heads.

Hmmm. . . I just got my 6800 Ultra for $350 AR last week as did a lot of others. Care to tell me which ATI cards are cheaper and easier to get?

We're talking PCI-E here. You will not find a PCI-E Ultra for $350.

 

[Genx87]

lol what a surprise

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: zakee00
why does it matter where i order it from? if i ordered one through ATI, i still want my card.

My completely-speculative guess is that, somehow, the major retailers pressured ATI into not undercutting them selling the cards at retail (probably price-gouging a bit too), by also selling them via the ATI site online at mearly MSRP.

What the heck, major retailers also managed to pressure HD makers into offering retail-kit HDs with shorter warranties than OEM models, and printer makers into not including a $2 USB cable, so that the store can attempt to upsell a $40 gold-plated "Monster USB cable".

It happens. :thumbsdown:

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: armax1980
Its kinda hard to believe that with so many manufacturers out there, that they are unable to make enough high end cards. I don't believe ATI or NV is having trouble producing the chips, its more likely the manufacturer trying to drive up prices by producing them slowly or resellers holding back the supply and making it look like a shortage. But who knows maybe there is really a shortage, only those working their would truly know the answer.

I really wouldn't be so certain that there isn't a supply problem when it comes to producing these extremely high-end GPUs. Although the initial demand for any new product is generally highest at introduction, thus the general trend by sellers to price-gouge, but if you think about it, it doesn't make sense to severely limit supply - that would only tend to reduce profits by turning away customers to competitors supplying similar products.

IMHO, If there weren't supply problems, then we would have these issues with "paper launches" of products six months ahead of general market availability, and even then, in limited quantities.

 

[Bar81]

Part of the problem is definitely demand. This new generation of cards, x800 and NV40, is the first since the Radeon 9700 Pro to offer a significant speed boost (i.e. doubling the performance of the 9700 Pro) and pretty much everyone that was waiting for a reason to upgrade did or is trying to. I know that until this gen there was no impetus to upgrade as the performance improvements of even the 9800XT were not drastic enough to justify the cash outlay. I know that supply is tight also as last year when I was shopping around for an X800 XT PE it was a little tough finding one whereas the AGP versions of the Nvidia cards were much easier to find and at retail prices. I even got annoyed enough to purchase a BFG 6800 GT OC from chumbo but that didn't work out as nvidia had (or still has???) some strange driver issue with widescreen resolutions that made my desktop blurry (tried a clean 2k install and two different cards from different sources.) But, having said that there were still a significant number of X800 XT PEs in the channel; I personally got my hands on 12 of them without too much trouble; it's just that demand was so crazy that no matter the price they got snapped up. You're seeing the reverse of the issue now with PCI-E with the high end ATI product in ready supply and the nVidia ones in short supply which is imo completely inexcusable given how small the PCI-E market is in relation to the AGP market, but then again people are probably going crazy wasting their money on SLI which could explain the difficulty of finding Nvidia PCI-E cards.

BTW there's *always* a way to get what you want for a reasonable price. Those looking for AGP X800 XT PEs for less than $500 got them (X800 VIVO mod) a LONG time ago and have been enjoying their gaming ever since.

 

[Busithoth]

I love ATI, and this is total crap.

I've been hedging which mobo to put in my new machine, and the whole AGP vs. PCI-E thing has kept me firmly undecided.

I missed the whole slot CPU movement, too.

I suppose PCI-E is here to stay, but it's not winning me over yet.
I like the idea of launching a product and making it available increasingly over time. But plateauing (or decreasing) your supplies is a sure way to lose a faithful customer.

Good thing the 9700Pro is still kicking butt, or I'd most likely have an nVidia replacing it in the next month.

 

[Ben88]

What I don't understand is why everyone is so caught up on upgrading individual components. People are getting PCI-E now because they are worried all the new cards will be PCI-E. Well by the time your AGP 6800 GT or Ultra isn't fast enough, you'll probably want some new motherboard with dual processors or whatever the next best thing is. I looked at some reviews, and the difference between Nforce 3 +AGP and Nforce 4 +PCI-E is almost indiscernable. I can't believe some people actually bought all their hardware, and now have it sitting around waiting for their x800xl preorders to arrive. Your whole investment is basically depreciating while you get no enjoyment out of it. From what I can tell, getting PCI-E now really proves the law of diminishing returns. You are basically paying more for nothing.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: Ben88
What I don't understand is why everyone is so caught up on upgrading individual components. People are getting PCI-E now because they are worried all the new cards will be PCI-E. Well by the time your AGP 6800 GT or Ultra isn't fast enough, you'll probably want some new motherboard with dual processors or whatever the next best thing is. I looked at some reviews, and the difference between Nforce 3 +AGP and Nforce 4 +PCI-E is almost indiscernable. I can't believe some people actually bought all their hardware, and now have it sitting around waiting for their x800xl preorders to arrive. Your whole investment is basically depreciating while you get no enjoyment out of it. From what I can tell, getting PCI-E now really proves the law of diminishing returns. You are basically paying more for nothing.

That's the main reason I'm still holding onto my nForce2 board for the moment (plus the CPU is at 2400MHz and there's no real replacement for Soundstorm..)

I just can't see paying $450+ for the PCI-E version of the same exact card I paid $337 for (6800GT) six months ago...

And yes, I realize there are AGP A64 motherboards, but what if I want to upgrade my video card in three or four months?...

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: Ben88
What I don't understand is why everyone is so caught up on upgrading individual components. People are getting PCI-E now because they are worried all the new cards will be PCI-E. Well by the time your AGP 6800 GT or Ultra isn't fast enough, you'll probably want some new motherboard with dual processors or whatever the next best thing is. I looked at some reviews, and the difference between Nforce 3 +AGP and Nforce 4 +PCI-E is almost indiscernable. I can't believe some people actually bought all their hardware, and now have it sitting around waiting for their x800xl preorders to arrive. Your whole investment is basically depreciating while you get no enjoyment out of it. From what I can tell, getting PCI-E now really proves the law of diminishing returns. You are basically paying more for nothing.

Exactly. The way tech is going now, unless you're a freak or have no sense and too much money, you upgrade your CPU/mobo/Vid card together. No sense in upgrading every few months for practically no performance gain (at least nothing you'd notice outside of benchmark programs) Personally, I'm kicking it with my system until early 2006 when I can check out a mature dual core with AMD's new M2 socket. Until then I'll be running everything more than fine with all the eye candy on.

 

[armax1980]

Good thing I haven't bought anything yet, gonna wait til my X800 XL card arrives(whenever that may be) then I start buying the CPU and stuff.

I totally agree with Virtuallarry on retailers pressuring shop.ati to cancel the orders. What better way for retailers to continue the price gouging by eliminating any sources that sells at normal prices.

We should all band together and not buy a single vid card, let the retailers stock up and lower the price, then we go in and buy like women in a 80% off sale frenzy. It'll be very interesting if everyone actaully did that and all the retailers still say that have a very limited supply.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: armax1980
Good thing I haven't bought anything yet, gonna wait til my X800 XL card arrives(whenever that may be) then I start buying the CPU and stuff.

I totally agree with Virtuallarry on retailers pressuring shop.ati to cancel the orders. What better way for retailers to continue the price gouging by eliminating any sources that sells at normal prices.

We should all band together and not buy a single vid card, let the retailers stock up and lower the price, then we go in and buy like women in a 80% off sale frenzy. It'll be very interesting if everyone actaully did that and all the retailers still say that have a very limited supply.

A group boycott only has chances of success when a fundamental right has been trampled on. Buying a gfx card for at or less than MSRP is not a fundamental right, and it does not involve a product that is necessary to get at reasonable prices. If we were talking about the price of bread, then sure you'd have a case

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Bar81
Your whole investment is basically depreciating while you get no enjoyment out of it. From what I can tell, getting PCI-E now really proves the law of diminishing returns. You are basically paying more for nothing.

Exactly. The way tech is going now, unless you're a freak or have no sense and too much money, you upgrade your CPU/mobo/Vid card together. No sense in upgrading every few months for practically no performance gain (at least nothing you'd notice outside of benchmark programs) Personally, I'm kicking it with my system until early 2006 when I can check out a mature dual core with AMD's new M2 socket. Until then I'll be running everything more than fine with all the eye candy on.[/quote]

Ditto. I'm holding off on my next upgrade, until SATA-II/PCI-E/dual-core AMD64 all mature. No reason to invest heavily into new tech until it's past the transition-point stage, IMHO. I think that might also be why many cost-sensitive peripheral-card mfgs haven't yet quite jumped on the PCI-E bandwagon either. (Unlike the high-end video-card market, which for $400+ each, is far less price-senstive than the $5 NIC and $20 SCSI card market.)

That's also why I don't think AGP will go away immediately, but that may be determined more by what game companies choose to do and require as their baseline minimum hardware requirements than anything else. (And both video-card and chipset companies may be exerting some subtle pressure here, I suspect, to increase PCI-E adoption, so that they can sell their more expensive cards and newer system chipsets.)

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Insomniak
Regardless of performance, NV is whipping the snot out of ATi when it comes to availability this time around...

The X800XL and X850XT and PE are as easy, or easier to get than comparable NV cards. Cheaper too.

You people need to get that thru your heads.

If that was true, your statement might hold some merit.

 

[Mem]

More info here@XbitLabs .

ATI Technologies, a leading graphics chip designer who also sells its own graphics cards in the U.S. and Canada, recently cancelled pre-orders on its top-of-the-range ATI RADEON X850-series graphics cards for at least some of its customers and offered them to get RADEON X800 XL products instead. The company said the move had been done in order to fulfill the demand for the new lineup of products from the company?s partners.

 

[edmundoab]

Its really out of rationale to deny people their best products out there.
Even money can't buy a mass production item?

doesn't make sense..
X800Series has been a real pain ever since they launched it.
I feel as if ATI are hand-making their cards :disgust:

 

[jasonja]

The X850 is in big demand and ATI is allocating most of their product to Dell and other big OEM's. Obviously if they are in demand and the choice between filling orders to Dell and filling their web orders come up, of course they are going to keep the OEMs happy first and foremost. Of course they would love to sell as many as they can but sometimes you just can't please everyone and you have to make choices of who to keep happy.

 

[edmundoab]

thats when Nvidia gets the upper hand

 

[ribbon13]

hmm.
hmm again.