ATI bamboozles honest gamers with X600XT?

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: TStep
Not that I care about card naming techniques, but I don't undestand the duping part of X600. Roman numeral "X"=10. Logic follows that a 10xxx series card follows a 9xxx series card.

9800 succeeded by 10800 or X800 >>> top of the line
9600 succeeded by 10600 or X600 >>> middle of the pack

Pretty straight forward in my eyes. A 10600 just doesn't sound a exotic as an X600, hence the naming scheme I'm sure. The X600 is an updated 9600, that's all. I can't believe firingsquad could imply that because there is an "X" in the naming scheme, the card must be derived from an X800. Someone has got to get off the crack.

As far as the price, well the free market will act as it always does. The informed will make the wiser purchase. The less informed will not make as wise a purchase. And one man's wise is not necessarily the same as another man's.

Exactly. :beer: With that logic we should expect ATI to give a directx10 card with the X models.
That's what she did in the past. 8 was mainly for the DX8, 9 was mainly for the DX9....etc etc.
That's what marketing is about.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: TStep
Not that I care about card naming techniques, but I don't undestand the duping part of X600. Roman numeral "X"=10. Logic follows that a 10xxx series card follows a 9xxx series card.

9800 succeeded by 10800 or X800 >>> top of the line
9600 succeeded by 10600 or X600 >>> middle of the pack

Pretty straight forward in my eyes. A 10600 just doesn't sound a exotic as an X600, hence the naming scheme I'm sure. The X600 is an updated 9600, that's all. I can't believe firingsquad could imply that because there is an "X" in the naming scheme, the card must be derived from an X800. Someone has got to get off the crack.

As far as the price, well the free market will act as it always does. The informed will make the wiser purchase. The less informed will not make as wise a purchase. And one man's wise is not necessarily the same as another man's.

See your optician.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: jim1976

Exactly. :beer: With that logic we should expect ATI to give a directx10 card with the X models.
That's what she did in the past. 8 was mainly for the DX8, 9 was mainly for the DX9....etc etc.
That's what marketing is about.

No, ATI already reneged on their (otherwise admirable) nomenclature with the 9100 and 9200 cards.

Originally posted by: nitromullet

i dunno.. can this even come close to topping nv for bamboozling? seems to me the gf4mx (lol.. a gf2 based card) is still the bamoozliest naming convention of all time.... hell, many of the clueless majority are STILL buying em!

That is bamboozilier than Rollo's example 🙂

Yeah, the GF4MX is bamboozlier than the X600 series, because it is 2 gen old technology whereas the X600 is 1 gen old technology. However, when the X200 cards come out (or was it X300) , that will be just as bamboozly as the GF4MX. Heck, it might even compete for the crown of bamboozliest card of all time 😉 .

Originally posted by: nitromullet

I wonder how much it will cost? If it costs more than a 9800pro, then that would be a dismal offering. On the other hand, if priced right, it could be a great solution for very casual gamers who want a PCI Express graphics solution.

Why would a "casual gamer" get a PCIe graphics card?

Because in 3-6 months, when the X600's ship and sell in mass, PCIe will be the main option on new motherboards. Already Dell and Intel are pushing hard for a fast adoption of PCIe, and ATI has said numerous times that a big reason for their low volumes of new cards is that many are the PCIe version.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: TStep
Not that I care about card naming techniques, but I don't undestand the duping part of X600. Roman numeral "X"=10. Logic follows that a 10xxx series card follows a 9xxx series card.

9800 succeeded by 10800 or X800 >>> top of the line
9600 succeeded by 10600 or X600 >>> middle of the pack

Pretty straight forward in my eyes. A 10600 just doesn't sound a exotic as an X600, hence the naming scheme I'm sure. The X600 is an updated 9600, that's all. I can't believe firingsquad could imply that because there is an "X" in the naming scheme, the card must be derived from an X800. Someone has got to get off the crack.

As far as the price, well the free market will act as it always does. The informed will make the wiser purchase. The less informed will not make as wise a purchase. And one man's wise is not necessarily the same as another man's.

See your optician.

Why's that? 😕

 

[jim1976]

No, ATI already reneged on their (otherwise admirable) nomenclature with the 9100 and 9200 cards.

That's why I said mainly, not always. But it's the first time that a new gen gpu naming don't follow the next DX.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: TStep
Not that I care about card naming techniques, but I don't undestand the duping part of X600. Roman numeral "X"=10. Logic follows that a 10xxx series card follows a 9xxx series card.

9800 succeeded by 10800 or X800 >>> top of the line
9600 succeeded by 10600 or X600 >>> middle of the pack

Pretty straight forward in my eyes. A 10600 just doesn't sound a exotic as an X600, hence the naming scheme I'm sure. The X600 is an updated 9600, that's all. I can't believe firingsquad could imply that because there is an "X" in the naming scheme, the card must be derived from an X800. Someone has got to get off the crack.

As far as the price, well the free market will act as it always does. The informed will make the wiser purchase. The less informed will not make as wise a purchase. And one man's wise is not necessarily the same as another man's.

See your optician.

Or better yet, get a perscription from your optometrist first, then go see the optician 😉 .

 

[Regs]

edit

 

[TStep]

Truely amazing, I've taken all of the above suggestions, and now I see the light.

The optician told me to quit spreading FUD and told me to read the following:

On June 19, firingsquad previews ATI's X-series lineup here.
The short version - 4 pipes, 500 core, 370 memory

One month later, July 19, firingsquad writes an article stating:
"While its name implies it?s derived from the X800, fundamentally the X600 XT shares its roots with ATI?s RADEON 9600 XT, which is nothing more than an enhanced RADEON 9600 PRO"

The optician asked how I can be so uninformed when it's all there in black and white. He asked if I some how thought the X600 specs would change from June to July? He also asked if I was smoking the same crack as firingsquad. He had concerns over our short term memory, since firingsquad can't remember what they wrote on the same topic one month earlier, and I can't remember the reading the article. After this he sent me to the mathematician.

I explained to the mathematician that ATI marketers are flat-out idiots for marketing a similar product with a different name. I said only a fool would rename a product X600 if it a refresh of a 9600, it follows no logical sense at all. I explained since it had an "X" in the name, it must be based on a cut down version of an X800. He said, I had to learn a few things and went on as follows:

1) He expained that a roman numeral X is equivalent to 10 and also explained the number line to me. He said maybe the marketing department wanted to differentiate a previous gen card mid pack, the 9600, from the new gen mid pack card, X600. He said if I can't grasp the concept of X=10, then just think of it as an ATI 10600.

2) Then he went on to explain the number line, showing me that 10 would follow 9. He further showed me examples that nVidia names cards in a series also, citing 4xxx, 5xxx, 6xxx cards, in a similar fashion though not exactly the same. He said don't get too caught up in the marketing, do your homework and make a wise purchase. After this he sent me to the marketing agent.

I said: By using an "X" in the title you have implied that the card should perform as well as the X800 series of cards, especially for the price you want. Anything with an "X" in the title implies this. He gave me a long speal about the card lineup and whatnot. Then he got out the contract for 80 acres of swampland in Florida. You know the rest.😉

 

[rbV5]

~$190 for a x600XT with VIVO and native YPbPr output might not be such a bad deal, and a reviewer from firingsquad claiming that x600 somehow implies its a x800 card is ridiculous.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous

He cant. His a$$ is superglued to his saddle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This coming from someone who said they would only buy an ATI card if Nvidia went out of business.

.

Do you have a problem with this? I meant what I said. I would only buy ATI if it was my only option. Then I would have no choice but to deal with the damn things.

And to think, some of us thought it was your incompetence and not your extreme distaste for ati. 😉

😀

Only option? You'd pick Intel's "extreme" graphics over ATI if nVidia went under? . . . i guess there is always Matrox.

:roll:

So you do have a problem with this. That is very funny because I dont have a problem with your preferences. I have a dislike for the way you come across and plug 9800's. I have recommended ATI often to may people in here. Am I a hypocrite? I don't know. If somebody asks "Should I buy a X600 or X800?", I'm not going to tell them to buy an nvidia card, but I will offer it as a suggestion or alternative.

No no problem with it . . . just replying 'in kind' . .. you DO have a sense of humour?

As to my 9800Pro recommendation (i have an "xt"); it is ALSO recommended by many reviewers as THE current bang-4-buck card ~$200 . . . if someone is looking for a $300 card, i will (and have) recommend the 6800standard (although i personally think it is a 'waste" compared to the slightly more expensive GT).

Personally i WANTed a 6800Ultra even though i have had ati in my rig since Rage (with 1 nVidia exception) . . . still do . . . but ain't gonna pay the "price". 😉

😛

:roll:

 

[DarkKnight]

I can see it now.

Best Buy:

"X600XT is twice as fast as the 9800pro because it has newer technology"

I feel sorry for people who don;t do any research before they buy cards and depend on salemen for info. Buying video cards is much harder today that it was a couple years ago.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: TStep
Truely amazing, I've taken all of the above suggestions, and now I see the light.

The optician told me to quit spreading FUD and told me to read the following:

On June 19, firingsquad previews ATI's X-series lineup here.
The short version - 4 pipes, 500 core, 370 memory

One month later, July 19, firingsquad writes an article stating:
"While its name implies it?s derived from the X800, fundamentally the X600 XT shares its roots with ATI?s RADEON 9600 XT, which is nothing more than an enhanced RADEON 9600 PRO"

The optician asked how I can be so uninformed when it's all there in black and white. He asked if I some how thought the X600 specs would change from June to July? He also asked if I was smoking the same crack as firingsquad. He had concerns over our short term memory, since firingsquad can't remember what they wrote on the same topic one month earlier, and I can't remember the reading the article. After this he sent me to the mathematician.

I explained to the mathematician that ATI marketers are flat-out idiots for marketing a similar product with a different name. I said only a fool would rename a product X600 if it a refresh of a 9600, it follows no logical sense at all. I explained since it had an "X" in the name, it must be based on a cut down version of an X800. He said, I had to learn a few things and went on as follows:

1) He expained that a roman numeral X is equivalent to 10 and also explained the number line to me. He said maybe the marketing department wanted to differentiate a previous gen card mid pack, the 9600, from the new gen mid pack card, X600. He said if I can't grasp the concept of X=10, then just think of it as an ATI 10600.

2) Then he went on to explain the number line, showing me that 10 would follow 9. He further showed me examples that nVidia names cards in a series also, citing 4xxx, 5xxx, 6xxx cards, in a similar fashion though not exactly the same. He said don't get too caught up in the marketing, do your homework and make a wise purchase. After this he sent me to the marketing agent.

I said: By using an "X" in the title you have implied that the card should perform as well as the X800 series of cards, especially for the price you want. Anything with an "X" in the title implies this. He gave me a long speal about the card lineup and whatnot. Then he got out the contract for 80 acres of swampland in Florida. You know the rest.😉

Hehe.😀 Nice subtle ownage.

 

[Creig]

Nvidia bamboozles honest gamers with driver cheats


Oh, wait... A statement like that would make me an ATI fanboy.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: TStep
Not that I care about card naming techniques, but I don't undestand the duping part of X600. Roman numeral "X"=10. Logic follows that a 10xxx series card follows a 9xxx series card.

9800 succeeded by 10800 or X800 >>> top of the line
9600 succeeded by 10600 or X600 >>> middle of the pack

Pretty straight forward in my eyes. A 10600 just doesn't sound a exotic as an X600, hence the naming scheme I'm sure. The X600 is an updated 9600, that's all. I can't believe firingsquad could imply that because there is an "X" in the naming scheme, the card must be derived from an X800. Someone has got to get off the crack.

As far as the price, well the free market will act as it always does. The informed will make the wiser purchase. The less informed will not make as wise a purchase. And one man's wise is not necessarily the same as another man's.

See your optician.

Or better yet, get a perscription from your optometrist first, then go see the optician 😉 .

:laugh:

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Totally unrelated subject - I'd like to see the Dell OEM X800SE PCI-E at the $199 pricepoint.

- M4H

 

[Genx87]

This is no surprise to me.

Although I do think the 9800SE was more of a scam than this.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig
Nvidia bamboozles honest gamers with driver cheats


Oh, wait... A statement like that would make me an ATI fanboy.

You mean like "Trylinear" and "Quack"?
😉

 

[Creig]

You've been into computers as long as I have, Rollo. You know perfectly well that both ATI and Nvidia have included "optimizations" in their driver releases. Both have also used misleading naming conventions on their cards in an attempt to trick the uneducated into thinking they were purchasing a higher-end card.

My question is... If you are truly as non-biased are you are claiming to be, then why create a post with such an obvious anti-ATI title? Why not simply admit you're solidly in the Nvidia camp instead of repeatedly trashing ATI products while claiming neutrality?

 

[imported_obsidian]

Geforce 4 MX...

But at least the kept the MX numbering consistant:

Geforce2 MX 200
Geforce2 MX 400
Geforce4 MX 420
Geforce4 MX 440
Geforce4 MX 460

But yea, this is a pretty crappy thing to do.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: TStep
Truely amazing, I've taken all of the above suggestions, and now I see the light.

The optician told me to quit spreading FUD and told me to read the following:

On June 19, firingsquad previews ATI's X-series lineup here.
The short version - 4 pipes, 500 core, 370 memory

One month later, July 19, firingsquad writes an article stating:
"While its name implies it?s derived from the X800, fundamentally the X600 XT shares its roots with ATI?s RADEON 9600 XT, which is nothing more than an enhanced RADEON 9600 PRO"

The optician asked how I can be so uninformed when it's all there in black and white. He asked if I some how thought the X600 specs would change from June to July? He also asked if I was smoking the same crack as firingsquad. He had concerns over our short term memory, since firingsquad can't remember what they wrote on the same topic one month earlier, and I can't remember the reading the article. After this he sent me to the mathematician.

I explained to the mathematician that ATI marketers are flat-out idiots for marketing a similar product with a different name. I said only a fool would rename a product X600 if it a refresh of a 9600, it follows no logical sense at all. I explained since it had an "X" in the name, it must be based on a cut down version of an X800. He said, I had to learn a few things and went on as follows:

1) He expained that a roman numeral X is equivalent to 10 and also explained the number line to me. He said maybe the marketing department wanted to differentiate a previous gen card mid pack, the 9600, from the new gen mid pack card, X600. He said if I can't grasp the concept of X=10, then just think of it as an ATI 10600.

2) Then he went on to explain the number line, showing me that 10 would follow 9. He further showed me examples that nVidia names cards in a series also, citing 4xxx, 5xxx, 6xxx cards, in a similar fashion though not exactly the same. He said don't get too caught up in the marketing, do your homework and make a wise purchase. After this he sent me to the marketing agent.

I said: By using an "X" in the title you have implied that the card should perform as well as the X800 series of cards, especially for the price you want. Anything with an "X" in the title implies this. He gave me a long speal about the card lineup and whatnot. Then he got out the contract for 80 acres of swampland in Florida. You know the rest.😉

Hehe.😀 Nice subtle ownage.

Well it's pure logic.... But yeah OWNage....

 

[KevinH]

nt...

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: SneakyStuff
Sorry Rollo, I don't see where you're goin with this, sounds perfectly fair to me, X300, X600, X800 whats wrong? It's the consumer's job to do the research.

I just read a review of a new card, thought it was amusing that the new card was much, much slower than other cards in their lineup and cost more.

AFAIK that situation is fairly unique in the video card world?

How about the entire MX line from NV? To be fair you're comparing pricing of previous gen to current gen. If you recall the 5900 vanilla bottomed out at $180 (no not the XT version either) and the 5700U that was released had an msrp of $199. This same pricing trend occured with the GF4MX's versus the GF3's that were found cheaper. I could go on and on....

 

[Ackmed]

I see some people are still ignorant on the "quack" bug.

 

[Pete]

ATi has always played it fast and very loose WRT names, but I don't think this is too much of a stretch, mainly b/c the X800 isn't a huge boost (features wise) from the 9600. I doubt many people will give a hoot about the difference between PS2.0 and PS2.0b. If the X800 were SM3.0, then we might have something to get uppity about. But PS2.0 to PS2.0b? I don't think X600 owners will be crying over 3Dc.

Obviously card makers will be laughing over the X600, as they do with all renamed or slightly boosted parts, filled with glee over another part they can rip people off with initially. Of course the reason they introduced a new card was to boost prices again, at least temporarily: lame, but true. But all manufacturers do that. The previous gen will always cost more than the current gen, independent of performance.

But where's the bamboozling? 9600XTs are still $200 retail in stores, no? The X600XT will probably have the same price, but with slightly faster memory. People who buy retail get ripped off anyway, but this doesn't seem like too big a deal, IMO--at least not deserving of Rolo's "bend over" hyperbole.

I'm tempted to call troll, but that wouldn't exactly distinguish this thread from any of the others in the video forum, now, would it? 😛

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I have nothing to add to the discussion Pete, but my thread most assuredly does not have a single flame in it 😉 At least not yet....