ATI 8500DV Defective or Flawed???

[Mickey352]

My system used for capture:
AOpen AX3sp-u
Intel P3 1.0 GHz
512meg of ram
Maxtor 740DX 40 gigs

I bought an ATI 8500DV 6 weeks ago to transfer my VHS tapes to the digital format. So I installed it, used the latest drivers and the most suitable settings for the captures without getting dropped frames... MPeg-2 at 6 mb/s

Everything is fine until I playback the recording... the sound on loud content passages is heavily distorted and heavily clipped.
I extract the sound from the captured film with GraphEdit and open the wave in SoundForge. There it is, sound in loud passage looks like a black square box for the duration of the loud part. I tried different movie captures from the audio inputs on the dongle and from the antenna input from vcr to the 8500DV and each time I get the same results. Heavy clipping and distortion of the sin wave. I was not satisfied with just that, I patched the audio signal through my preamp that has a graphic equalizer and tried different settings with "record effects" on and finaly after applying a 9 db cut across the full spectrum do I get a signal that contains nearly no clipping.
The ATI has either a defective audio "auto-level recording circuit" or it has fixed level recording that is set too high.... And no way to adjust it in any way, be it by software or driver settings....

Goshhhh... I just shelved $600 CAN for a defective card....

I returned it to the store I bought it with a cd containing clips and sin waves graphs that I specialy made for the store and ATI. The store checks my finding on the cd because they apparently don't have VCRs, DVDs or movies to check it. They decide that acording to my findings the card is really not performing as it should... ATI gives them an RMA and they sent it to the Service Department.

3 Weeks later, I get a phone call from the computer store telling me that ATI will be sending a new 8500DV card... Nice... I will be able to finaly get to digitize my movies...

False alarm, ATI has sent my defective card back saying it is not defective... NOT DEFECTIVE???

I don't know how they tested it to come to that conclusion but they apparently won't see a problem in the way the card works... Is it within all 8500DV card specs.... If it is, are all ATI 8500DV flawed....

I was careful and checked over 15 reviews of that card during the preceding months, but even if the card was just tested for its gaming ability and spot captures which were showing good results, I thought the whole card was well made and worthy of spending the cash on it...

I am beginning to think so. And I am $600 CAN poorer for having bought it. So if you are looking for a good video capture card to buy, you may want to look elsewhere....

Michel.



The store today called me and asked that I bring the system I use to do my capturing.... I get there, after the usual sterilisation, the tech installs the 8500DV, loads drivers and go get a vcr to test it.... I watch him start the hookup.... Then I just could not believe what I see... The vcr he is using to check the card is an old mono vcr, no hifi.... with cheap tapes....
I told him and all he could say is: "It's all we have to do the tests..."

 

[LethalWolfe]

I'm not too familiar w/the this card, but have you check ATi's site for a compatible hardware and/or known issuse list? Is there anyway for you to adjust the output of your VCR? Also, why does it matter VCR and tapes the tech guy used to test yer rig? If the ATi card is capturing hot, it's capturing hot. The only difference is yer capturing hot hi-fi stereo, and the tech guy is gonna capture hot "lo-fi" mono... Do you have another computer (or a willing friend) that you can try the ATi card out on and see if you get the same issues on another rig?


Lethal

 

[Mickey352]

There is a very big difference between mono output from a vcr and hifi stereo from an other.... Dynamic Headroom and Frequency response.

Mono will have a range in frequency of about 50 to 5,000 hz and 40 db dynamic range on a mono vcr, but it will hit from 20 to 20,000 hz on a hifi vcr with a dynamic range of around 92 db.

It is a totaly different output....

 

[jamesbond007]

Can't you record the audio from your soundcard? Get a 1/8" stereo to RCA adapter and hook the audio out from the VCR to your soundcard's line input. You'd have more control over the gain.

Can you adjust the level/intensity/gain of the audio input on the 8500DV?

I don't have this card, nor have I worked with one, but just trying to see if there are alternative methods.

Good luck!

[edit]spelling[/edit]

 

[Mickey352]

I can do many things to defeat the problem but I don't think using an external vcr and patching the sound through an external parametric equalizer to record a tv broadcast is what I like most since I paid $600 for a card that was suppose to do it. Using an external audio card won't work. I can send audio to another card but not get it from.

The audio/out from a vcr, receiver, or any other audio/video gear are based on set standards that every companies follow as much as possible. I take this output and feed it to the audio input of the 8500DV and I get heavy clipping and sound distortion. That sounds to me like the card is either out of specs or flawed in its design...

Since ATI won't fix it or replace it I will have to do with the external patching for about $600 CAN of use.... That will be a few years.

 

[NicColt]

>ATI has either a defective audio "auto-level recording circuit"

ATI's official stand on sound is this "it offer a passthrough to capture sound as a convenience" in other words they are not responsible and you are SOL if you have problems for capturing sound. It's better for you to bypass it all together and capture the sound directly to your sound card and only capture video with the card. that's what I do and everything is fine. Hope this helps.

 

[rbV5]

<< The ATI has either a defective audio "auto-level recording circuit" or it has fixed level recording that is set too high.... >>



I think you are looking in the wrong direction. Your soundcard captures the audio, not the AIW card. You need to look at your soundcards WDM drivers.

 

[Mickey352]

The sound card does not capture audio on the 8500DV for tv capture , composite and s-vhs input. I have tried with the sound card mixer to see if I could lower the sound recorded and it has no effect what ever I try.
I can capture sound through the sound card but it has to be done after the video capture, not simultaneously. Since you play a vhs tape twice and it will have a variation of a few second with each playback, there is no way I can synchronize it with video afterward.

 

[rbV5]

<< The sound card does not capture audio on the 8500DV for tv capture , composite and s-vhs input >>


Of course it does, where did you get the idea the AIW captures the sound? You may want to look at This.

 

[Mickey352]

Maybe you have not read the preceding post where I mentioned: I have tried with the sound card mixer to see if I could lower the sound recorded and it has no effect what ever I try.
The mpeg encoding section in the GPU is recording the sound at a too high level, the sound card is for playback and audio capture of sound from the card on hard drive, not for recording in the mpeg-2 video file. The Line out that connects on the sound card does not loop back to the GPU for video recording. The GPU takes the signal from the dongle's audio inputs.

 

[rbV5]

<< Maybe you have not read the preceding post where I mentioned: I have tried with the sound card mixer to see if I could lower the sound recorded and it has no effect what ever I try. >>


Actually I did read it, along with the entire thread, it seems to me you are focusing on the video card when it appears you are having trouble with your sound card (drivers?). You seem to be under some misconception that somehow your AIW is the hardware responsible for audio capture, when in fact, your soundcard is responsible for audio capture regardless of which video connector you are using. That leads me to think that your soundcard drivers may likely the culprit. Not being able to adjust the levels of your audio inputs is another indication of soundcard driver problems. It may be that you have a conflict between the AIW and your soundcard, or another device on the PCI bus, but rest assured, your soundcard definately comes into play capturing video with your AIW. Don't believe me? disable or uninstall your soundcard from device manager, how do your captures sound now?

What soundcard? Which OS? Driver version?



<< the sound card is for playback and audio capture of sound from the card on hard drive, not for recording in the mpeg-2 video file >>


Not true.



<< The Line out that connects on the sound card does not loop back to the GPU for video recording >>


Obviously, the line-out is for outputing sound from the soundcard, not for input. Your AIW MUST be connected to your soundcard's input whether internally or externally for sound capture..period.



<< The GPU takes the signal from the dongle's audio inputs. >>


Actually, its the seperate Rage Theater chip that handles the VIVO functions on the 8500dv, not the GPU and the soundcard that handles the audio.

 

[LethalWolfe]

<< The sound card does not capture audio on the 8500DV for tv capture , composite and s-vhs input. . >>




Pet peeve here, it's S-video input not S-VHS (S-VHS is a tape format).


Lethal

 

[Mickey352]

I went out and bought a Fortissimo II sound card today and installed it. And still could not change the level of the sound recorded in the mpeg capture.

Someone at Rage3D pointed to a registry settings for the ATI software that fixed the problem...

Quoting him (Erratic1):
"Unless I've missed something obvious, the only way to change ATI's preset level is to change a registry value.
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\ATITechnologies\Multimedia\Features\TV\Sound] There you can change the preset Record Volume."

I changed the value from "850" to "400" in increment and now the sound is near perfect. I extracted the wav with GraphEdit and checked it in SoundForge... Looks great.

Hope this helps anyone using that card as much as it helped me...

 

[NicColt]

I really don't get any of this since I'm bypassing my sound togo directly into my sound card. It has nothing todo with ATI.

Are you saying that you are pluggin your source into the ATI dongle ?

 

[rbV5]

<< I changed the value from "850" to "400" in increment and now the sound is near perfect. >>


Well, well, what do ya know? Nice find. I've seen that registry key when mucking in the registry, but never knew what it was for.